Autopsy Port v Melbourne review

[OneGreatClub]

It wasn't the fact they won contested ball so much as the fact that they managed to track back and defend when they didn't.

That being said - go back through the stats and tell me what the opposition managed to do with contested possession in those games. If they were within 10, it was just a scrappy game with a lot of stoppages. Actually, I've done it for you - the only games that were similar for Melbourne were Adelaide at AO, the Suns at TIO and the Bulldogs at Etihad.

So against the league leaders, the premiers and some hack team coming off the bye...and us.

And what happened in those games? Adelaide lost by 41, Gold Coast lost by 35 after leading by 17 at half time, and the Bulldogs lost by 57. In each of those games, they scored over 100 points.

What happened against us?

They had one quarter where they blitzed us early by 25 points and lost the remaining three quarters by a combined total of 2 points, and only scored 88 points. Because being a contested ball team + defending like they did is unsustainable.

Good coaching on Goodwin's part to ambush us?

 

[Willsy10]

So are we supposed to just accept the fact that we're a rung below the top tier teams and deal with it? Even though the top tier teams include teams like Adelaide and Geelong who on no objective measure have our playing list covered for talent man for man?

We've got a relatively mature team stacked full of first round draft picks and experienced players traded in on big money to fill the gaps. We've got a coach in his fifth season surrounded by support staff and resources at least on par with every other club and well exceeding some. The club has never been in a better position to challenge. And yet here we are, as ordinary as ever, fighting to somehow finish above superpowers like Essendon and St Kilda in the race for that coveted 8th position.

Sensational post

 

[*PAF]

Good coaching on Goodwin's part to ambush us?

Is it an ambush if you know it's coming?

 

[OneGreatClub]

Is it an ambush if you know it's coming?

We obviously didn't know it was coming.

 

[Willsy10]

Hard to really add to what's already been said. Everything about the loss on the weekend has become a little too familiar.

Anyone else at the end of their tether, at the cross roads, and quite frankly had a gut full of the same disappointments.

I think this year might just be the biggest tease we've ever had. I hope I'm wrong but if you can't beat any team in the 8 you are going to be very lucky just to scrape into the 8, but they continue to play it down. the next two weeks could potentially force the penny to drop.

The fact they couldn't turn up for a clash that meant so much makes me question if they really want it. It feels as if just making the 8 is an achievement for this club nowadays, it's all hinkley needs to get a new contract apparently.

It's really sad.




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[tribey]

We obviously didn't know it was coming.

It's not like Melbourne had signalled their intent by throwing Viney, Watts, Tyson and Salem straight back in after 2-3 week layoffs, or anything.

 

[OneGreatClub]

It's not like Melbourne had signalled their intent by throwing Viney, Watts, Tyson and Salem straight back in after 2-3 week layoffs, or anything.

I know what you mean however some even on here were saying they would be underdone and the rest of the team would be flat coming back from Darwin.
It seems perhaps the coaches didnt prepare the players mentally. Same as GF 2007

 

[Portstar Johnny]

We keep stuffing games up at the selection table. Reward sanfl form.


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[vozzon]

He's too far up field. For whatever reason. Defies all logic. It's like we're tanking

Comes down to having no other tall forward. Thats why i recon he also had those turn overs on the edge of the 50 mtr line. Took the mark just outside his range but was too scared to to kick it deep. Clearly we need another 2nd tall forward thats not a natural defender.

 

[Magus]

It's not like Melbourne had signalled their intent by throwing Viney, Watts, Tyson and Salem straight back in after 2-3 week layoffs, or anything.

What do you mean by intent? We're not a special opponent for them. They wanted to win the game so they put their best 22 on the park.
We didn't have to be prepared for special circumstances, we just had to show a little bit of desire to win. We didn't and this is a very normal thing for us now.

 

[tribey]

What do you mean by intent? We're not a special opponent for them. They wanted to win the game so they put their best 22 on the park.
We didn't have to be prepared for special circumstances, we just had to show a little bit of desire to win. We didn't and this is a very normal thing for us now.

At what was a potential crossroads for their season, they could've played it safe with the likes of Viney and Salem and Gawn wasn't 100% either, but they threw the kitchen sink at us anyway, no doubt with an eye to putting as many runs on the board as possible so they could outlast any late surge when they inevitably tired in the second half.

Could we have fought harder for contested ball? Of course.

Could we have taken a more defensive stance in anticipation of Melbourne's early charge to absorb and counter more? Perhaps.

Either way we looked naive, inept and weak for far too long and when we did get our s**t together we played into Melbourne's hands with turnovers, poor finishing and an empty F50 despite being behind and needing to score quickly.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Atleys miss was a sliding door. If he jad kicked his first AFL goal we would have been up and about and run over them I think.

Unfortunately we arent mentally tough enough to do it anyway when he misses.

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[SupportMe]

Atleys miss was a sliding door. If he jad kicked his first AFL goal we would have been up and about and run over them I think.

Unfortunately we arent mentally tough enough to do it anyway when he misses.

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Crazy that we couldn't overturn 16 points in 15 minutes and that Melbourne were the ones camping Port in their defensive 50.

 

[rogerjames]

So are we supposed to just accept the fact that we're a rung below the top tier teams and deal with it? Even though the top tier teams include teams like Adelaide and Geelong who on no objective measure have our playing list covered for talent man for man?

We've got a relatively mature team stacked full of first round draft picks and experienced players traded in on big money to fill the gaps. We've got a coach in his fifth season surrounded by support staff and resources at least on par with every other club and well exceeding some. The club has never been in a better position to challenge. And yet here we are, as ordinary as ever, fighting to somehow finish above superpowers like Essendon and St Kilda in the race for that coveted 8th position.

Unfortunately Ken is not the coach to take this list to the GF. No killer instinct. He's had 5 years and thats enough. The boys are not hungry enough under his coaching.

 

[B0ydmoan]

Unfortunately Ken is not the coach to take this list to the GF. No killer instinct. He's had 5 years and thats enough. The boys are not hungry enough under his coaching.

At the end of the day, being as objective as I can be, it appears this is correct. Maybe he can pull a masterstroke and snag a flag this year but if not you would have to say it's all over for him and time to move him on

 

[TeeKray]

Unfortunately Ken is not the coach to take this list to the GF. No killer instinct. He's had 5 years and thats enough. The boys are not hungry enough under his coaching.

At the end of the day, being as objective as I can be, it appears this is correct. Maybe he can pull a masterstroke and snag a flag this year but if not you would have to say it's all over for him and time to move him on

The question is, are the standards that high at the administrative level or are we just happy to finish 8th and turn a solid profit? I'm unsure on the answer to this.

 

[FishingRick04]

The question is, are the standards that high at the administrative level or are we just happy to finish 8th and turn a solid profit? I'm unsure on the answer to this.

Yeah I don't know either. Once ruthless I suspect we are happy and content to be in the big league. 40% finals participation and one GF in 20 years and a horrible 10 year stretch seems to say we are happy with mediocre and talk the talk.

Ken I feel plays up how good the opposition too much to the players. We are too respectful ultimately the players must go in thinking, shot these guys are real good.

I'd much prefer us believe in ourselves, identify how a team plays and pump our boys up to win and believe

 

[chiwigi]

The tone of many here worries me greatly, if our attendances drop to the 20k level because people demand instant gratification we will never get up. It is a chicken and egg situation.

As much as YAY POrts are the greatest, there is a harsh reality, and it is (as in life) usually finances.

6 coaches have won the flag in ten years.

The clubs?
Hawthorn - MCG tenant, financial powerhouse, priority picks
Geelong - MCG tenant - financial powerhouse due to council stadium deal, father-son picks
Collingwood - MCG tenant, financial powerhouse, will always attract players due to size.
Sydney - COLA, whole City to itself, able to manipulate things in many ways.

Outlier - Bulldogs, won from the position we are currently in and fell off quickly. An anomaly that we would hope to emulate. The 'Leicester' scenario.

Prior to these winning it was the Eagles (financial powerhouse etc.), Ports - start up concessions and Treders tampering, Lions - handed the world on a plate.

We will always struggle as a club because the fans demand instant gratification and our attendances drop off quickly when it isn't forthcoming. The revenues then drop and we are back to square one. I realise I have gone off track (from discussing Hinkley), but people need to get real about what is and what isn't likely.

FFS, Carlton, Essendon, Richmond, Crows etc. have been less succesful than us this century, with far greater resources.

We punch above our weight massively, if people start jumping off we will be in trouble again. We can't punch above our weight if the fans wont even pull theirs.

 

[FishingRick04]

When does the Hawks and their priority picks excuse finish?

We have a plethora of top picks on our roster and we don't get the same output.

I'm not advocating in person abondonment but at the same time. After 10 years of the same issue, 2 list turnovers you'd think we'd have identified the mental demons and removed them by now. We are supposed to be the most successful club in Australia after all.

 

[chiwigi]

When does the Hawks and their priority picks excuse finish?

We have a plethora of top picks on our roster and we don't get the same output.

I'm not advocating in person abondonment but at the same time. After 10 years of the same issue, 2 list turnovers you'd think we'd have identified the mental demons and removed them by now. We are supposed to be the most successful club in Australia after all.

Because it happened at the right time, when there was a seismic change in funding and a large leap in TV revenue and interest in the sport. Something they could then capitalise on further (as well as the great deal they got from Tassie because of the AFL's reluctance to put a team there).
It wasn't the picks, it was the timing of the picks that allowed the to build at just the right time. This added to their history of relatively recent success meant bottoming out was possible.
If Port did so, we would no longer exist.
At the same time and without bottoming out we had many crowds under 18000!

13683 in 2012 FFS, against West Coast!!!!!

 

[Schulzenfest]

Atleys miss was a sliding door. If he jad kicked his first AFL goal we would have been up and about and run over them I think.

Unfortunately we arent mentally tough enough to do it anyway when he misses.

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I must say I was a bit disappointed at the leadership group regarding that kick. A teenager in his third game is lining up for the biggest kick of his young career, you would've thought somebody (particularly Ollie Wines who was standing right next to him when the free was paid) could've had a word in his ear when he was lining up.

I know I'm overreacting to one incident here, but maybe based on that Ollie isn't ready to be captain. A captain has to think about his teammates' games too, not just his own. If it had been Boak alongside him rather than Ollie you can bet that Travis would have had a word to him.

 

[*PAF]

When does the Hawks and their priority picks excuse finish?

We have a plethora of top picks on our roster and we don't get the same output.

I'm not advocating in person abondonment but at the same time. After 10 years of the same issue, 2 list turnovers you'd think we'd have identified the mental demons and removed them by now. We are supposed to be the most successful club in Australia after all.

The Hawks priority picks assumption is flawed.
Sure they did but the majority of their picks came from trading players that were in demand.
Dunstall played a big part in getting them to where they are.

 

[FishingRick04]

Because it happened at the right time, when there was a seismic change in funding and a large leap in TV revenue and interest in the sport. Something they could then capitalise on further (as well as the great deal they got from Tassie because of the AFL's reluctance to put a team there).
It wasn't the picks, it was the timing of the picks that allowed the to build at just the right time. This added to their history of relatively recent success meant bottoming out was possible.
If Port did so, we would no longer exist.
At the same time and without bottoming out we had many crowds under 18000!

13683 in 2012 FFS, against West Coast!!!!!

Yes but we also didn't sieze our opportunities. 2002 and 2003 we were good enough but were mentally weak back then. Believed our hype and got ambushed (sound familiar). The

The Hawks priority picks assumption is flawed.
Sure they did but the majority of their picks came from trading players that were in demand.
Dunstall played a big part in getting them to where they are.

Yes they identified average performers and retired them off or traded them on. Remember their captain crying? VandeBerg wasn't it?

They went about ruthlessness, hired the best coach, stole alot of our IP by hiring key players, Pelchon and Russell, we allowed ourselves to be pecked apart.

 

[Jack Grange]

The tone of many here worries me greatly, if our attendances drop to the 20k level because people demand instant gratification we will never get up. It is a chicken and egg situation.

As much as YAY POrts are the greatest, there is a harsh reality, and it is (as in life) usually finances.

6 coaches have won the flag in ten years.

The clubs?
Hawthorn - MCG tenant, financial powerhouse, priority picks
Geelong - MCG tenant - financial powerhouse due to council stadium deal, father-son picks
Collingwood - MCG tenant, financial powerhouse, will always attract players due to size.
Sydney - COLA, whole City to itself, able to manipulate things in many ways.

Outlier - Bulldogs, won from the position we are currently in and fell off quickly. An anomaly that we would hope to emulate. The 'Leicester' scenario.

Prior to these winning it was the Eagles (financial powerhouse etc.), Ports - start up concessions and Treders tampering, Lions - handed the world on a plate.

We will always struggle as a club because the fans demand instant gratification and our attendances drop off quickly when it isn't forthcoming. The revenues then drop and we are back to square one. I realise I have gone off track (from discussing Hinkley), but people need to get real about what is and what isn't likely.

FFS, Carlton, Essendon, Richmond, Crows etc. have been less succesful than us this century, with far greater resources.

We punch above our weight massively, if people start jumping off we will be in trouble again. We can't punch above our weight if the fans wont even pull theirs.

A very good summation. We have drafted very well over last 3-4 yrs with a few trades as well. IMHO if we make the 8 to provide our young list with some finals experience we have grown. Getting game time into our younger players at senior level is the priority (both maggies and afl level) is a must for their development. Fact is we are not ready for top 4 yet ad we have to serve our time and grow to earn/get there.
We are not there yet however I think we are closer that what others may think. But our growth has to be sustainable which is why I prefer the direction of 'draft and develop' with a trade here and there for needs, think White as an example, and we could get the result we all want. No guarantees of course but then nothing is.

 

[*PAF]

...

Yes they identified average performers and retired them off or traded them on. Remember their captain crying? VandeBerg wasn't it?

They went about ruthlessness, hired the best coach, stole alot of our IP by hiring key players, Pelchon and Russell, we allowed ourselves to be pecked apart.

They did more than just identify average performers. They went on a long term strategy by trading good and very good players for high picks.

They then drafted and traded for some experienced players around including Dew, and Burgoyne and got lucky early but more importantly built a dynasty. It was no fluke.

Plus quality off field staff like you mentioned.