The Law Portland White Supremacist Murders Two

[Gough]

White supremacists have terrible records whenever let anywhere near government, and you only ever need scratch a millimetre below their surface, and it gets pretty nasty. They're entitled to their views, but I don't see how normalising them has any value.

 

[Lethality]

How exactly are they targeted?

With violence, or the cheering of violence against them, or other incitement to violence, not to mention hate speech.

 

[Lethality]

White supremacists have terrible records whenever let anywhere near government, and you only ever need scratch a millimetre below their surface, and it gets pretty nasty. They're entitled to their views, but I don't see how normalising them has any value.

You don't have to normalise their views, just stop persecuting or accepting the persecution. Thats the real problem.

 

[Mofra]

With violence, or the cheering of violence against them, or other incitement to violence, not to mention hate speech.

What sort of institutionalized violence are white supremacists subject to that other groups aren't?

You sound like you're trying to frame them as victims in the way actual marginalized groups with a history of grievances are. By and large they have a history being the persecutors, not the persecuted yet now you're framing them as victims?

Applying those standards more broadly every single human being on the planet is a victim in one way or another and therefore any violent acts committed are mitigated if not justified.

 

[Lethality]

What sort of institutionalized violence are white supremacists subject to that other groups aren't?

I'm not arguing that they are particularly targeted.

You sound like you're trying to frame them as victims in the way actual marginalized groups with a history of grievances are. By and large they have a history being the persecutors, not the persecuted yet now you're framing them as victims?

Yes, they are victims as well, in the ways that I have mentioned in this thread.

 

[Mofra]

I'm not arguing that they are particularly targeted.

Um...

You don't have to normalise their views, just stop persecuting or accepting the persecution. Thats the real problem.

Yes, they are victims as well, in the ways that I have mentioned in this thread.

In very tenuous, flawed ways.
Is there anyone out there who is not a victim?

 

[Lethality]

Um...

Yes, I said they were targeted, but you asked in what ways they were targeted that others were not, and that's not part of my argument.

 

[JackOutback]

That's sort of a secondary point, my main gripe is with the open justification of violence and also persecution of certain groups. This applies to everyone, including white supremacists.

White supremacists are victims just like everyone else, usually of their own fear. Do you imagine it would be nice to live in a world when you believe the kinds of things they do? Then on top of that they have mainstream voices justifying violence against them. I think we could at least agree that the latter is never the answer.

All of this is a problem at the best of times, let alone when there is a president like Trump who is garnering their support thanks in part to the rhetoric and bile that is levelled against them.

I haven't seen anyone endorsing institutionalised violence against white supremacists. I also think it's disingenuous to suggest their 'victimhood' at being afraid of other races is in any way akin to the actual grievances endured by some at the hands of white supremacists.

 

[Lethality]

I also think it's disingenuous to suggest their 'victimhood' at being afraid of other races is in any way akin to the actual grievances endured by some at the hands of white supremacists.

I don't think there should be a need to weigh people's suffering against another's in order to validate that suffering.

 

[CM86]

I don't think there should be a need to weigh people's suffering against another's in order to validate that suffering.

Yet in the Trump thread, you used Trump's suffering to invalidate Gillard's.

I still refuse to believe you're actually serious about this.
It's just your 'contrary for attention's sake' stance.

 

[Lethality]

Yet in the Trump thread, you used Trump's suffering to invalidate Gillard's.

I just said it was common for politicians. Death threats, vile images, and so forth. That doesn't mean I approve of it, any more than I do of this.

 

[CM86]

I just said it was common for politicians. Death threats, vile images, and so forth. That doesn't mean I approve of it, any more than I do of this.

Haha, bullshit.

The decapitated head picture of Trump really makes Julia gillards complaints of sexism seem even more shrill. What was her issue again? Right, 'ditch the witch' slogans.

 

[Lethality]

Haha, bullshit.

I'm referring to the dubious claim that Gillard got special treatment . . . that doesn't mean her treatment is completely justified or otherwise. Its just that it's the same as every other politician's.

 

[CM86]

I'm referring to the dubious claim that Gillard got special treatment . . . that doesn't mean her treatment is completely justified or otherwise. Its just that it's the same as every other politician's.

Sure sure...
In the Trump thread...
When no one was talking about Gillard...

You pointed out that you thought Gillard dealt with nothing compared to Trump... even though...

I don't think there should be a need to weigh people's suffering against another's in order to validate that suffering.

 

[Lethality]

Sure sure...
In the Trump thread...
When no one was talking about Gillard...

The discussion on the Drum on this turned to Gillard as well, so it seems like a natural progression.

You pointed out that you thought Gillard dealt with nothing compared to Trump... even though...

The point is just that politicians cop this sort of stuff all the time and so the narrative about special treatment with regards to the attacks on Gillard were disingenuous. That's not to invalidate the attacks themselves, if we want to improve our behaviour towards public figures we can do that, and this beheading picture is probably going to be a reminder to a few to pull their heads in.

 

[CM86]

The discussion on the Drum on this turned to Gillard as well, so it seems like a natural progression.



The point is just that politicians cop this sort of stuff all the time and so the narrative about special treatment with regards to the attacks on Gillard were disingenuous. That's not to invalidate the attacks themselves, if we want to improve our behaviour towards public figures we can do that, and this beheading picture is probably going to be a reminder to a few to pull their heads in.

Sure, sure... It's the Drum's fault.
So you were weighing people's suffering against others.

 

[JackOutback]

I don't think there should be a need to weigh people's suffering against another's in order to validate that suffering.

A white supremacist's irrational fear of another race is not suffering. Surely you're just fishing...

 

[Lethality]

A white supremacist's irrational fear of another race is not suffering. Surely you're just fishing...

I think it's obviously suffering, how does feeling hate for an entire race of people not lead to a poor state of mind? Framing it as an 'irrational fear' should be another clue that it is suffering, irrational fears being treatable neuroses.

 

[Malifice]

The demonisation of white supremacists has been a problem, particularly in America. This seems like the result of justifying violence against them, they too feel justified in using it.

Nice try.

 

[Malifice]

How exactly are they targeted?

Hes trying to draw an analogy between white supremacists and Islam.

Those poor white supremacists getting persecuted by everyone and is turning them towards violence etc.

He can't help himself.

 

[Lethality]

Nice try.

I've said this many times here in the past, what people are arguing is justified against white supremacists, or Nazis, or even Trumpists, has been a disturbing development, just as disturbing or more so, than what they are targeting. Been pretty consistent on this for a while.

 

[CM86]

I've said this many times here in the past, what people are arguing is justified against white supremacists, or Nazis, or even Trumpists, has been a disturbing development, just as disturbing or more so, than what they are targeting. Been pretty consistent on this for a while.

You defend white supremacists, while spreading fear about sharia courts, and Muslims.
You're baiting. It's all you have because you're so desperate for attention.

 

[Lethality]

You defend white supremacists, while spreading fear about sharia courts, and Muslims.

I defend people, yes. I don't spread fear about Muslims, just try to speak to the facts, as I do with everything else. Sharia courts I feel are unfair to certain types of Muslims, so of course I am against them, due to my first point about 'defending' people. That includes Muslims as well as white supremacists, it includes everyone.

 

[CM86]

I defend people, yes. I don't spread fear about Muslims, just try to speak factually, as I do with everything else. Sharia courts I feel are unfair to certain types of people, so of course I am against them, due to my first point about 'defending' people.

So you spamming about Sharia law surpassing Australian law was factual?
You posting about how there are two legal systems that co-exist in Australia... being Australian law and Sharia law, was factual?

You trying to insist that sharia court is anything more than mediation, and should be feared... is factual??

Bull s**t.

You know what's unfair to people? White supremacy... Yet you are defending that.

You're baiting.

 

[Lethality]

So you spamming about Sharia law surpassing Australian law was factual?

When did I do this?

You trying to insist that sharia court is anything more than mediation, and should be feared... is factual??

I'm not insisting anything with sharia courts, I accept the facts about them, I just feel that they do discriminate against certain types of Muslims. I wasn't even aware that we had Sharia courts in Australia until I was told, so my concern levels have always been low, however I do agree with reports that they are unfair to women.

You know what's unfair to people? White supremacy... Yet you are defending that.

Not talking about white supremacy as an idea, but white supremacists, the people. It's not defending white supremacy, I'm saying that there should be some consideration for the suffering of white supremacists and the consequences of how we choose to interact with them. Particularly in the age of Trump, or One Nation and other groups, who thrive on the growing split between factions.