Opinion Port's ruck strategy

[Forzaport]

We tried to get Cox, he chose Collingwood.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

I agree Frampton's form hasn't been good enough for selection although I thought he was ok against Sturt but play him in the ruck for a full game at SANFL level ffs he needs to be worked to actually get it together not 5 minutes and then humped forward it's stupid.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Our list is a bit unbalanced at the moment. With Austin gone and Hombsch back in the league side we really don't have a genuine key defender at the next level and with Eddy delisted and Thomas suspended we don't have someone to play close to goal as a key forward (I know Thomas is a small forward but at snafl level he can kick bags of goals). So now we are stuck rotating young underdone ruckmen through key forward posts and playing undersized key defenders. Lienert on a wing would be a handy experiment as an opportunity for the league side.

 

[1954]

Obviously I will be happy to be wrong but I can envisage Goldy getting 50 plus hit outs tomorrow.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

We tried to get Cox, he chose Collingwood.

Nope our press release at the time, said we had decided not to pursue him. It might have been bullshit but it's on the record as not wanting him.

Anyway that is beside the point. We seem to refuse to use the Category B rookie list spots for rucks. Given what we have done in China I don't believe it's because we as a club lack imagination, it's because we lack a ruck strategy and dont believe we need enough ready to go back up players. Pike, Holmes, Cox and a few others have shown its worthwhile using Category B and plenty of others have been taken using normal rookie list of cross code players.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Cripps says we rejected Cox not the other way round, as he didnt believe in him much.

As I said above, I'm not saying we should have got him to be the main man, but to have used him on the Cat B rookie list. History shows he was a lot less flaky than Daniel Flynn who we though was all we could handle re development of Cat B rookies.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...x/news-story/26f1754f9be0ca466e195addf431614d
May 26, 2014
PORT Adelaide has withdrawn from the race to sign giant American ruck prospect Mason Cox.

The 211.4cm Cox — a former soccer player and basketballer — trialled with the Power on Saturday morning and was a guest of the club for its thrilling win against premier Hawthorn at Adelaide Oval. But while Port has ruck problems following long-term knee injuries to lead ruckman Matthew Lobbe’s key sidekicks Jarrad Redden and Brent Renouf, it doesn’t view Cox as the answer — in the short term at least. This leaves North Melbourne, Collingwood and Richmond — who are all believed to have offered Cox a contract as an international rookie — to fight for the 23-year-old’s services.

“We’ve decided not to offer Mason a contract for a couple of reasons,’’ Power list manager Jason Cripps told The Advertiser. “We’ve obviously already got one international player in (Irishman) Daniel Flynn and we want to make sure we focus strongly on his development. “And from a list management perspective we saw Mason as being a long-term project, having not played the game before and where he’s at with his development, rather than a short-term fix for our ruck stocks.’’

Cox arrived in Australia last week after being the standout prospect at the AFL’s US Combine in Los Angeles last month, which was attended by the Power and five rival clubs. He trained with the Magpies and the Kangaroos prior to landing at Alberton and will meet with the Tigers before picking his preferred club, which he can officially join at the end of the season.
........
“Mason’s a long-term project and is not someone we can count on to come in next year and have an impact,’’ Cripps said. “We look to improve every year through our list management process and from the weekend with Renouf going down and Reddo (Jarrad Redden) out for the rest of the year we will continue to address that (ruck) area, along with our entire list.’’ Cripps however said Port would continue to attend the annual US Combine, which is funded by the AFL, because of the talented talls who are on offer.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...x/news-story/26f1754f9be0ca466e195addf431614d
May 26, 2014

Ok so we went and got Paddy but at this stage of the 2014 season we hadn't started talking to him. We stitched him up late September 2014.

Cripps basically saying Port were not prepared to play the long term development game with Cox who has now played in 3 ANZAC day games on a stage that doesn't get much bigger in AFL footy, outside the GF and PF's at the MCG.

 

[tribey]

We tried to get Cox, he chose Collingwood.

"He kicked 3 and showed improved ruck craft"



"He was too slow and a liability defensively"

​

 

[PAFC66]

How far away is Ryder ffs

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

How far away is Ryder ffs

How long is a piece of string. That is what achilles injuries are like. And just because he comes back doesnt mean it wont flare up again the 2nd or 3rd game back and he misses another serious chunk of the season.

 

[Magus]

Cox would be languishing in the twos if we had picked him up.

 

[Nemisis]

Cox would be languishing in the twos if we had picked him up.

Guaranteed

 

[JUSTWORK]

How far away is Ryder ffs

1-2 weeks according the the last injury update (23rd) hopefully we’ll have him for the showdown

 

[GremioPower]

Bringing this to the proper thread.

That's why you make sure you have a back up ruckmen ready to go from Rd 1, not have a strategy of hope for the best.

Would be happy if we were 9th or 10th in each category and keep our players in their normal position, if we were smart enough to actually have a 25ish year old is back up ruckmen on the list.

But we just cant give up that slot for another flanker, who we will probably ditch in 3 years time. We need those sexy little runners.

You were one of the most consistent voices for bringing in a backup ruckman during the offseason. If I may, I have some questions:

- Who would you have targeted?
- What would you have done to get him?
- Which player from our current list would you leave out? Why?
- Wouldn't this new ruckman hold the development of Frampton, Ladhams, and/or Hayes?

I hope those are good questions.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Charlie was good the physical presence we needed although his actual tap work is a bit hit n' hope he's the best option when Paddy is out.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Bringing this to the proper thread.
You were one of the most consistent voices for bringing in a backup ruckman during the offseason. If I may, I have some questions:

- Who would you have targeted?

I wanted our recruiters to have scoured the nation to find someone to use on our rookie list and/or last place of our 5 draft picks to have picked someone between 23 and 27 last October, when still in the trade period. The delisted free agents didn't offer much that I liked. There were a few break in case of emergent types. I wanted us to find a Drew Petrie type on a 1 year rookie contract, if we were going to go for this sort of player, ie can come in and play 15 games but don't really want to play him that much unless necessary. WCE drafted him after he was delisted from North, after 15 years and 300 games at the end of 2016, because they knew Nick Naitanui would not play a game in 2017. He helped beat us in the 2017 Elimination Final.

So I would have looked at a mature aged player in that 23 to 27 bracket knowing we would have offered him a 1 year contract and 1 year at a time as Paddy wasn't going to miss 12 months like Nick Nat when we were doing our planning in October 2017.

There probably was a 100 potential players to look at around OZ from all the state leagues. I dont have the vision of all these players. I'm not a full time recruiter. But we basically have the opinion/philosophy that we didn't need to add a ruckmen to our list, despite trading out Lobbe, which given we were paying him so much, and he was only really a back up, we had to try to get him off our books. Geoff Parker at the end of draft night said, we weren't going to take a ruckman at the draft, but Hayes was too good a player to refuse to take when he slipped to our first pick..

We had committed to Lindsay Thomas being picked with a rookie pick, Houston stayed as a rookie to take advantage of salary cap exemption rules for part of his salary and we informed Hewett, Snelling and Lienert they had another rookie contract before the trade period ended. Plus we kept Ladhams on the rookie list. So we basically we had a, no mature 23-27 year old ruck back up policy in mind in October 2017.

People say, but what's the point of drafting a ruckman from a state league and if they were any good they would already be selected? History shows that's not true. People develop at different stages and we know ruckmen are slower developers. Geelong have a great record of finding mature age blokes from state league. Every year players make an extraordinary improvement on what they had achieved before then, and become an important part of the best 22 for that next season. Ruckmen playing in state leagues could achieve the same sort of thing if they go into a full time position. To say absolutely none of 100 or so of them could make a massive improvement if they were given the opportunity to me, is bullshit.

Remember in October 2017 we had no idea that Hayes would have fallen to us, Frampton was put in early for surgery, so there was always a chance that he wouldn't come up well from the operation, and he has a history of getting injured in preseason and starting seasons behind the 8-ball.

So as I have written here several times, the guy I liked and had seen some footage of and had read stuff about since July 2017, was Scott Jones. I have written about him several. These are the reasons why.

1. Was 22 years of age, 204 cms about 108 kgs, we didn't have to feed him to get a big AFL ready body.
2. Was an AIS-AFL scholarship holder at 17. AIS = Australian Institute of Sport and these have been awarded since 1997 and over 70% of these guys get drafted, because they are the best U/16, U/17 juniors around Oz when they get offered a scholarship.
3. 2013 he broke his ankle in Rd 1 of the WAFL colts game, destroyed his U/18 season, didn't play in the national carnival and didn't play for 4 months and wasn't drafted as he was seen as too high a risk
4. When he was 17/18 he had good speed and agility testing was considered very mobile and a good agile player for 200cm+ player
5. Played at East Perth which is aligned to West Coast Eagles so he is getting AFL style development from East Perth coaches and playing an AFL game style at State League level

6. One of the back up ruckman at WCE had was Jonathan Giles. We recruited him in the 2005 AFL draft when he was 200 cms and about 83 kgs. He was on our list for 4 years before we delisted him. Never played in the AFL in those 4 years. Went back to the SANFL for a year after we cut him, then because of Mark Williams being at GWS when they started, GWS gave him a rookie spot in their formative years. He played 50 games in 4 years and by then had hit the 100+ kgs. Essendon traded for him after they lost Paddy to us and were light on ruckmen on their list for 2015 season. Then he went to West Coast in a trade as a depth ruckman player at the end of 2015.

Giles started the 2017 season playing for WCE and Jones as the main ruckman for East Perth. Jones made his WAFL A grade debut in Rd 1, was playing well. Giles got dropped to East Perth 1/3rd of the way thru the season. WCE told EP that Giles had to be the main ruckman and Jones was made to play in the forward line after Giles came back. Jones apparently by all reports played well up forward kicking a goal game and rucked better than Giles when he went onto the ball.

So he was young, but had an AFL body, was in an AFL system feeder team, learning AFL style systems, was probably a better player than Giles, the mature 29 year old back up AFL ruckman for WCE and is over his major injury ie his ankle and is probably ready to fulfill that junior potential. As his East Perth Footy Manager highlighted in his Inside Football Draft Special profile "...He is 204cm and quickly found his feet at senior level this year. His contested marking and pushing forward was a highlight. Ready to go as a player at AFL level, but in saying that there is probably plenty of development left in him and we are starting to see now he's been injury free for 18 months. Probably late draft, I reckon." East Perth Football Manager Mark Winnett.

Fremantle drafted him at pick 75 after cutting 2 of their 5 ruckmen, 31 year old Jonathan Griffen and 27 year old Zac Clarke. They also drafted an 18 year old ruckman Lloyd Meek at pick 30.

- What would you have done to get him?

I would have used the pick we used on Gardner - who is a half back flanker and we already have 8 or 9 of them or the pick we used on Barry on him. With the benefit of hindsight getting Barry and missing out on Gardner was the best alternative

-

Which player from our current list would you leave out? Why?

See above answer

- Wouldn't this new ruckman hold the development of Frampton, Ladhams, and/or Hayes?

Frampton has had time and looks like the club reckons he is Not Good Enough. It might be a case of NGE yet or maybe NGE ever. I dont know, but if I had to put money on what they are really thinking, I would go NGE ever after listening to Nathan Bassett's comments at a morning sports show interview before the Geelong game last Saturday night , talking about Frampton.

Hayes development might be stiffled but I reckon he will be playing AFL footy by mid 2019, so not that much.

I hope those are good questions.

Questons are fine, it just is that the situation keeps repeating itself over and over ( ie 2014 and 2016) and the club doesn't seem to be able to not repeat a shortage/crisis in the ruck. They take the old Aussie - she'll be right (in the long run) attitude, rather than go for a bit of insurance. And it makes us look like idiots that we repeat the same mistake.

 

[DaTBird187]

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Port's ruck strategy - wait for Ryder to heal.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I talk a lot about using the Category B rookie list spots and going and finding big bastards from Basketball, Volleyball, USA etc who are about 205-210cm range and about 110-115kgs as we have seen with guys like Mike Pyke, Jason Holmes, Mason Woods, etc. We in the past have used the normal rookie list to get Dean Brogan from basketball and Barnaby French from rowing but they were playing in the SANFL for a year before we drafted them. Only Cat B ruckmen we have gone after was Daniel Bass in 2010 and he wasnt huge only 198 cms and 100 kgs.

Well the NFL draft this morning Oz time saw reigning Super Bowl champs the Philadelphia Eagles be even more adventurous than I am and with their final pick in the draft Rd 7 pick # 233, direct,from the NRL South Sydney Rabbitohs 21 year old Jordan Mailata a former Rabbitohs under 20s prop in 2017. He is a *en monster 203cms and 154 kgs according to his video (6 foot 8 inches and 340 pound). Now that is about 45 kgs more than you need to be for AFL but what a punt that pick is. He has never played a competitive game of Gridiron before he was drafted.

From the story on the Rabbitohs site
https://www.rabbitohs.com.au/news/2018/04/29/jordan-mailata-chosen-in-nfl-draft-by-philadelphia/

Besides his potential as an offensive tackle with the Eagles, the main interest was why Mailata had decided to pursue an NFL career. His manager Chris Orr organised for North Queensland's Jason Taumalolo and Cronulla's Valentine Holmes to undergo NFL testing two years ago and after Mailata was told he needed to lose more 20kg to play in the NRL, he suggested the prop attend the IMG Academy in Florida.
"Towards the end of my rugby last year I composed a little highlight video, as a back-up, to figure out what I was going to do with my life," Mailata said.

"My agent knew some NFL people who ran this international program and I was fortunate enough to get their attention. They flew me out to LA last November and I worked out for them and I was fortunate enough to get on the program. "I will only be 21 years of age so I thought why not give it a try, I am still young."
.......
Mailata caught the attention of Stoutland at an NFL Pro-Day last month, during which he ran the 40-yard dash in 5.12 seconds and completed the short shuttle in 4.67 seconds - times that would have put him in the top 10 at the NFL Combine earlier this year.

While Stoutland believes Mailata can make it in the NFL as an offensive tackle, it was suggested he also had the skills to play as a tight end. "Of course I can catch, in rugby league we have to pass the ball, but I am enjoying my time at offensive tackle," he said. Mailata now faces the arduous task of making Philadelphia's final 53-man roster and has acknowledged it may take three years before he is ready but his former Rabbitohs team-mates are backing him to succeed. "Playing with him in the under 20s, you just had to give him the ball 10 metres out and no one could stop him from that close to the line," Rabbitohs halfback Adam Doueihi told NRL.com recently. "Last year he was unstoppable, and he actually hurt a few kids because he was such a big kid."

From his twitter site



From the NFL

Love the way the NFL describe him and apparently they showed this footage after he was picked at the draft night and obviously on US networks covering the draft.



You can read more at this news.com.au article
http://www.news.com.au/sport/americ...l/news-story/e7b9ad334615207a641a8f2020bace69

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

MEMO TO PARKER, CRIPPS AND DAVIES - get a draft and trade list with 20 ruckmen on them. Start planning now! No more short term bullshit she'll be right thinking. Now that Sam Hayes has done his ACL and will be out 12 months and wont be AFL ready until 2020, we know you are going to cut Frampton, Ladhams knees probably wont come good and at best he gets another year on the rookie list, so we need you to do some decent thinking.

Paddy isn't getting any younger and has Achilles problem.

She'll be right, wont cut it for 2019.

Draft a mature age 23-25 state league guy, best in the country type. Trade for a 2nd or 3rd ranked ruck from an AFL club - Scott Lycett would be nice to attract back home, and draft a developing kid with pick 85 if need be.

Use the Category B rookie concessions, go get 2 big bastards from basketball/volleyball/USA/Ireland etc that are already 205cm/110-115kg types. There are more Mason Coxs, Mike Pykes Dean Brogans, Jim Styness out there. Go and find them.

Give contracts to 198cm types as part of Magpies 15 contracts. Get young kids into the Academy side who are over 200cm. Scout the Sudanese and African community and find some big tall athletes who know how to kick a soccer ball if they dont play footy, and offer them education stuff and/or employment stuff with some of our corporates to get over the $100 a game issue. Do the same for non Africans.

Fos said get rid of the no hopers. Get rid of the no hoper thinking around rucky strategy of the last few years, or just leave if you can't!

 

[raptalia]

Admittedly I am on the 'Ken must go' ticket but Ken has to have had a say in our failure to recruit an experienced back up ruckman. For the second time in three years we are on the bones of our arse re ruckmen. Parker, Cripps and Davies are all culpable but I would be adding Hinkley's name to your distribution list. If you want me to counter sign the memo I am happy to do so.

Like your suggestion about the Sudanese community some of those boys are big bastards. If we found a couple of decent kids we could Rookie List them as we have done with Immanuel Irra.

 

[*PAF]

No. We needs more KPFs that can be moved to defence when needed.

 

[Magus]

Admittedly I am on the 'Ken must go' ticket but Ken has to have had a say in our failure to recruit an experienced back up ruckman. For the second time in three years we are on the bones of our arse re ruckmen. Parker, Cripps and Davies are all culpable but I would be adding Hinkley's name to your distribution list. If you want me to counter sign the memo I am happy to do so.

Like your suggestion about the Sudanese community some of those boys are big bastards. If we found a couple of decent kids we could Rookie List them as we have done with Immanuel Irra.

100% Ken gets what Ken asks for.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Dean Brogan is looking for a job in the AFL industry, but I think he has work commitments as SA manager of IT company EFEX stop him being full time in the industry.

Put him in charge of finding young U/18 type ruckman in the draft, mature state league players via all the state leagues and the 3 drafts and the Category B rookies ie basketball and other sports conversion players, given he went thru the basketball to footy conversion successfully.

Parker and his team of 180cm blokes need all the help they can get. Get a 200cm guy into the recruiting team to broaden their minds.

 

[FishingRick04]

I suspect Paddy in 2019 needs to be our forward foil. He looks like a natural forward with his body struggling to stand up to the battery of ruck.

 

[Power Raid]

Dean Brogan is looking for a job in the AFL industry, but I think he has work commitments as SA manager of IT company EFEX stop him being full time in the industry.

Put him in charge of finding young U/18 type ruckman in the draft, mature state league players via all the state leagues and the 3 drafts and the Category B rookies ie basketball and other sports conversion players, given he went thru the basketball to footy conversion successfully.

Parker and his team of 180cm blokes need all the help they can get. Get a 200cm guy into the recruiting team to broaden their minds.

I'd like Brogan to teach watts and other "nice" players how to be assertive