Opinion Port's ruck strategy

[RussellEbertHandball]

Get the shin pads ready Charlie. You might be asked to do a lot more rucking than what Ken and co said you might be doing in 2016 when you talked to them in August.

Mod's note: Thread created from discussion in existing thread

 

[elpirate]

Get the shin pads ready Charlie. You might be asked to do a lot more rucking than what Ken and co said you might be doing in 2016 when you talked to them in August.

Please elaborate....

 

[RossFC]

Get the shin pads ready Charlie. You might be asked to do a lot more rucking than what Ken and co said you might be doing in 2016 when you talked to them in August.

I'd put Ryder, Lobbe, Trengove and Hoff in the ruck before Dixon.

 

[wilbur_15]

I'd put Ryder, Lobbe, Trengove and Hoff in the ruck before Dixon.

Butcher would be a decent enough back up ruck if we really needed. 1 cm taller than Ryder with a comparable leap. How tall's Stefan Martin?

Anyway, ruck position is so overrated. I'd much prefer an athletic type. As long as you can almost break even in taps, I far prefer someone who can actually contribute around the ground.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Please elaborate....

Take blinkers off and think a little. CAS, long term injuries etc.

 

[proman_x]

Get the shin pads ready Charlie. You might be asked to do a lot more rucking than what Ken and co said you might be doing in 2016 when you talked to them in August.

Wouldn't think they would risk him as a run with ruck man ? Are you saying that or more so forward line ruck work ?

 

[RossFC]

How tall's Stefan Martin?

About 197/198cm

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Wouldn't think they would risk him as a run with ruck man ? Are you saying that or more so forward line ruck work ?

Scenariio 1
Ryder out for 7.5 months with backdating from CAS
Lobbe out for 6-8 weeks with a leg injury
Frampton struggling and getting belted by bigger, old, stronger ruckmen

Who is left to do 50-75% of the rucking?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Scenariio 1
Ryder out for 7.5 months with backdating from CAS
Lobbe out for 6-8 weeks with a leg injury
Frampton struggling and getting belted by bigger, old, stronger ruckmen

Who is left to do 50-75% of the rucking?

Firstly I agree with you and would have drafted another ruck, a break glass in case of emergency. Paul Hunter can't have been the only one out there.

However what's done is done and in that scenario I would ruck Butcher. He will compete like a Blue Heeler and even if he is beaten he will be competitive. You can always set up to losing rucks and rebound from half back with numbers if need be.

And I wouldn't underestimate the competitive instincts of Billy Frampton. He would take on anyone. Then there's Trengove who has a massive leap and a bit of ruck nous. Westhoff can do some. Charlie could probably do a bit of ruck work but he'd be down my list.

But like Kenny and co I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[TimmyD11]

I agree with the premise of the concern but the Crows have had Jacobs as their only ruckman for 3 seasons. Their only back up is O'Brien who is like our Frampton and I'd take Trengove over Jenkins. We have two genuine ruckmen plus probably more than the average AFL quality pinch hitters. Who has all of a Trengove, Westhoff and Dixon on top of two genuine Rucks in one team. s**t Dogs did alright with bloody Cordy a spud and Roughhead whose more of a pinch hitter than genuine ruck. Whilst normally I would agree with playing it safe but we have more ruck depth than most, Frampton will be as good as any journeyman 'break-glass' Ben Hudson type.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Even if they gave Ryder an extended ban , since port were not the offending club I would think that if it was lengthy , and we had a lengthy injury to lobbe we would have grounds to apply to add a player mid season. Unusual circumstances.

 

[proman_x]

Scenariio 1
Ryder out for 7.5 months with backdating from CAS
Lobbe out for 6-8 weeks with a leg injury
Frampton struggling and getting belted by bigger, old, stronger ruckmen

Who is left to do 50-75% of the rucking?

Trengove, Westy, Butcher ? But I get your point.

 

[Jack Grange]

Scenariio 1
Ryder out for 7.5 months with backdating from CAS
Lobbe out for 6-8 weeks with a leg injury
Frampton struggling and getting belted by bigger, old, stronger ruckmen

Who is left to do 50-75% of the rucking?

Fair dinkum you are dreaming...penalties will not happen to Ryder and all bomber players. We do not need extra ruckman on our list...why this LTI bullshit to any player. If that is the case lets have extra players for every position. Reality is there are very few long term injuries and a pointless argument we should draft for that eventuality. We have traded & drafted very well in 2015...full bloody stop

 

[Tibbs]

.... Charlie could probably do a bit of ruck work but he'd be down my list.

Interesting to see that on week 1 of training, and they have him contesting against Lobbe in ruck in quite s few of the AFL pics posted here this week.

Looks like they are not going to wrap him in cotton wool, and that he will offer some backup in ruck through the season

 

[tribey]

Interesting to see that on week 1 of training, and they have him contesting against Lobbe in ruck in quite s few of the AFL pics posted here this week.

Looks like they are not going to wrap him in cotton wool, and that he will offer some backup in ruck through the season

He'd take some F50 boundary throw-ins a la Stewie Loewe. Nothing more.

 

[Hellgood]

Take blinkers off and think a little. CAS, long term injuries etc.

Carn. I know you and boydman are very attached to your position, but surely getting tired of pushing this barrow.

I agree with the premise of the concern but the Crows have had Jacobs as their only ruckman for 3 seasons. Their only back up is O'Brien who is like our Frampton and I'd take Trengove over Jenkins. We have two genuine ruckmen plus probably more than the average AFL quality pinch hitters. Who has all of a Trengove, Westhoff and Dixon on top of two genuine Rucks in one team. s**t Dogs did alright with bloody Cordy a spud and Roughhead whose more of a pinch hitter than genuine ruck. Whilst normally I would agree with playing it safe but we have more ruck depth than most, Frampton will be as good as any journeyman 'break-glass' Ben Hudson type.

Frampton has a hell of a way to go to be as useful as a Ben Hudson. Still very lean and inexperienced.

 

[Andre]

He'd take some F50 boundary throw-ins a la Stewie Loewe. Nothing more.

He should be doing the ruckwork in the forward 50, so Ryder doesn't have to cover as much ground and play the main ruck for more of the game. Ditto Trengove down back. A few minutes here and there to mix things up, with Ryder forward, but I wouldn't expect to see him start any quarters in the centre, outside of injuries / suspensions all cluster******* at once.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Every year people s**t themselves about our 'lack' of a state league spud ruckman. Since Lobbe established himself as AFL quality in mid-2013, how many times have we had to play a 'break-glass-in-case-of-emergency' type ruck? Once by my count, against Freo last year when we played Renouf. Once in two and a half years. And Trengove did a better job in the ruck in that game than Renouf did anyway.

We're fine for rucks. We have a top 5 ruck as our #1 and we have the best second ruck in the league. Frampton is big, ugly and angry enough to come in and not be completely embarrassed if we're desperate.

 

[Tibbs]

Every year people s**t themselves about our 'lack' of a state league spud ruckman. Since Lobbe established himself as AFL quality in mid-2013, how many times have we had to play a 'break-glass-in-case-of-emergency' type ruck? Once by my count, against Freo last year when we played Renouf. Once in two and a half years. And Trengove did a better job in the ruck in that game than Renouf did anyway.

We're fine for rucks. We have a top 5 ruck as our #1 and we have the best second ruck in the league. Frampton is big, ugly and angry enough to come in and not be completely embarrassed if we're desperate.

Sanity prevails at last!! A rookie-listed long-term project ruckman does diddlysquat for us in 2016/17/18 if ever! If we need another in 2017, we trade for him!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Fair dinkum you are dreaming...penalties will not happen to Ryder and all bomber players. We do not need extra ruckman on our list...why this LTI bullshit to any player. If that is the case lets have extra players for every position. Reality is there are very few long term injuries and a pointless argument we should draft for that eventuality. We have traded & drafted very well in 2015...full bloody stop

Are you one of the 3 CAS adjudicators and can give me a 100% caste iron guarantee it wont happen? Have you read the WADA Code from start to finish and especially the clause 10 conditions for Sanctions and remissions? If not then how can you be so supremely confident of the result? How many seasons that Lobbe has been on our list and he has not missed at least 4 games thru injuries? One I reckon is the answer.

How many ruckmen did we have on our list in 2014? Three. 2 had doubts about them and those doubts were fully realised and we drove Lobbe into the ground, missed out on a top 4 spot, missed out on a top 2 spot, missed out on a home QF, win that and you get a home PF spot and history shows that your best chance to get into a GF is to host a PF against a travelling team.

 

[Portia]

Every year people s**t themselves about our 'lack' of a state league spud ruckman. Since Lobbe established himself as AFL quality in mid-2013, how many times have we had to play a 'break-glass-in-case-of-emergency' type ruck? Once by my count, against Freo last year when we played Renouf. Once in two and a half years. And Trengove did a better job in the ruck in that game than Renouf did anyway.

lol what.

"WE'VE BEEN FINE FOR ALMOST 30 MONTHS EVERYTHING IS FINE FOREVER"

I guess I don't have the same sort of inside sources that some people have, where they know Port are immune to ruck injuries in 2016, 17, 18.

We're fine for rucks. We have a top 5 ruck as our #1 and we have the best second ruck in the league. Frampton is big, ugly and angry enough to come in and not be completely embarrassed if we're desperate.

Is he? How's his form when those injures/suspensions happen to Ryder and Lobbe? Or do you think a young ruckman yet to debut will have flawless form lines?

How's Lobbe's form before that, in fact? Is it going to be as good as it was this year?

How does that all contribute to the fact that we're premiership contenders this year? Is it sensible to gamble on rucks that dictate first touch at every stoppage when you need every edge, just for the luxury of drafting one more flanker or keeping on one more spud a year longer?

You muppets

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Carn. I know you and boydman are very attached to your position, but surely getting tired of pushing this barrow.....

This has got nothing to do with me being tied to my position. Its about risk management. You are not one of the 3 CAS adjudicators so you cant give a caste iron guarantee Ryder will not get a decent length suspension. Several months after I first started my professional career I was given several QC's opinions to read about proceeding with court action which my clients were involved in. None of them gave a caste iron guarantee despite the QC's strongly arguing their opinion. I saw some proceed and win and some proceed an lose and one loss was for over $10 million, with a very strong legal opinion that they would win. No one can 100% correctly predict how a judge(s) will adjudicate before he/she has handed down his decision. I saw a mate who was lied to, I was there when a supplier promised to supply equipment by a certain date, the equipment was delivered late, a large loss was made, my mate took legal action against that supplier, my friend started asking for more compensation than I would have, so the other side threw lots of legal action back at him and in the end he lost and it cost him more than a million dollars - despite being in the right. Those sort of experiences makes one very wary of trying to prejudge any court action decision.

 

[OneGreatClub]

This has got nothing to do with me being tied to my position. Its about risk management. You are not one of the 3 CAS adjudicators so you cant give a caste iron guarantee Ryder will not get a decent length suspension. Several months after I first started my professional career I was given several QC's opinions to read about proceeding with court action which my clients were involved in. None of them gave a caste iron guarantee despite the QC's strongly arguing their opinion. I saw some proceed and win and some proceed an lose and one loss was for over $10 million, with a very strong legal opinion that they would win. No one can 100% correctly predict how a judge(s) will adjudicate before he/she has handed down his decision. I saw a mate who was lied to, I was there when a supplier promised to supply equipment by a certain date, the equipment was delivered late, a large loss was made, my mate took legal action against that supplier, my friend started asking for more compensation than I would have, so the other side threw lots of legal action back at him and in the end he lost and it cost him more than a million dollars - despite being in the right. Those sort of experiences makes one very wary of trying to prejudge any court action decision.

Ryder not a guarantee yet so so many were happy for Lobbe to be gone..yet now all worried about our rucks..sheesh

 

[tribey]

Every year people s**t themselves about our 'lack' of a state league spud ruckman. Since Lobbe established himself as AFL quality in mid-2013, how many times have we had to play a 'break-glass-in-case-of-emergency' type ruck? Once by my count, against Freo last year when we played Renouf. Once in two and a half years. And Trengove did a better job in the ruck in that game than Renouf did anyway.

We're fine for rucks. We have a top 5 ruck as our #1 and we have the best second ruck in the league. Frampton is big, ugly and angry enough to come in and not be completely embarrassed if we're desperate.

Ever since the rucking circle became a thing because surprise surprise a 193cm faux-ruckman was getting PCL injuries banging into bigger blokes - and wrestling became forbidden - the importance of the position has become vastly diminished anyway.

A guy like Goldstein would've been enough of a force-multiplier to win North a flag 10 years ago, now he's just another player, as excellent as he is.

 

[Portia]

Ryder not a guarantee yet so so many were happy for Lobbe to be gone..yet now all worried about our rucks..sheesh

Actually REH was against the Lobbe trade.

By contrast I don't believe Ryder will be suspended.

The hypocrisy you think you see is really just your own lack of keeping up