Positives and Negatives vs Carlton

Remove this Banner Ad

hudson2006

Club Legend
Nov 4, 2010
2,426
2,923
Kyoto
AFL Club
West Coast
Negatives:
- All handballs from either side were garbage.

Positives:
- All kicks & marks from either side were sublime.

Couldn’t watch live so went into the replay knowing only the final score. Nice to watch with lower blood pressure for a change.

I really enjoyed the high standard of footy from both sides. Carlton were excellent, and it was great to see WCE grind out another win over stiff opposition.
 

RookiePick

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 13, 2014
17,502
29,769
AFL Club
West Coast
Yesterdays Positives:

My young fella charging out of the goal square like the G-train, clunking it in the pissing rain and then running around to his left to slot one inside out from 25m.

Dom Sheed. What a huge game - beasted when he was inside, skilfull outside and deadly whenever he is in range of the big sticks. Has been finding his groove in the new TK world and only gets better each game.

Naita. Bloke is a cheat code.

Defence. We got caught a few times but looking at it in the light of day the Blues really made the most of their chances. A ridiculous number of quick snaps that flew true out of congestion. Jacko Nelson looking really assured out their now - the most trustworthy disposer of the ball from the "small three" down back - hopefully the spray from JJK will tidy up his i50 kicking.

Josh Rotham. I have been sceptical but he showed plenty yesterday. I think he is going to be a very able Shep replacement in due course. Smalls, talls he has the skill set to make it hard for them.

Just the grit from the guys again. Approaching 4 goals down and they just grit their teeth and put in more effort and have the talent up forward to reap the rewards.

Shep GOOOOOOAAAAAALLLLL!

Yesterdays Negatives:

My young fella trying to snap from the top of the goal square and spraying it like he was Levi Casboult. Drop punt son...we have discussed this!

Sluggish starts/apathetic early. We can't keep giving up 3-4 goal leads in these shortened matches. Only a matter of time before we leave too big a hill to climb.

Small forwards. Cameron looks underdone. Ah Chee still unable to stay involved with Crippa suffering a little of the same disorder this year. Ryan looked like he was trying hard but definitely not 100% fit yesterday imo.

Overall it basically went exactly as I imagined it would. We are just a cut above a rapidly improving Carlton in talent and experience. Blues played pretty well and with a far more obvious system and tactics than they have in recent years.
 

Ochre

Great kick
Aug 25, 2008
30,717
27,382
Not In Portland
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Claremont
NN has been in terrific form and would be the current AA ruck however, there is merit in his lack of marks. I'm not sure what it is. Is it a depth/flight perception problem?

I'm not talking about him going to the backline or playing as an extra link/mid etc but when the ball is kicked in his area he has an enormous advantage with his height and athleticism, more often than not I see him going for the spoil. I don't really understand it.
Carlton were very aggressively blocking him off the ball yesterday, when they'd set up for long kicks down the line. NN ended up trying to legally beat the sh*t out of Pittonet late because of it.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Yamumluvsbigcox

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 22, 2012
8,244
13,044
Trapped in a glass box of emotion
AFL Club
West Coast
Negatives:
- All handballs from either side were garbage.

Positives:
- All kicks & marks from either side were sublime.

Couldn’t watch live so went into the replay knowing only the final score. Nice to watch with lower blood pressure for a change.

I really enjoyed the high standard of footy from both sides. Carlton were excellent, and it was great to see WCE grind out another win over stiff opposition.
Carlton have a good list with some pretty good players on each line .
Fisher - always loved this kid get him home .
Sps - they have given him our jetta role . Not so good a defender but bloody good kick out of defence .

De konig- kid has some talent for sure . Hopefully they don't Kruzer him and manage him and develop him slowly not throw him to the wolves.

They need another big body and some leg speed on ball to help cripps .

Cripps - is a absolute beast and a gun . But sheed was a good choice for us too. Think sheed won the chocolates today .

Cripps - found out there is always a bigger beast - natanui buried him . I think cripps may have actually enjoyed it

Carlton - when they were on they were very slick and hard to stop . They just need to do it for 4 quarters .
 

The wily weagle

Club Legend
Oct 16, 2014
1,405
2,691
AFL Club
West Coast
The main negative for me was, for yet another match of the season, Barrass is playing way too loose.

He is affording his opponents way to much space so that they are beating him on the lead

And if the ball comes in high, he is still playing way too far behind his opponent, trying to body spoil at the last possible minute and a lot of the time, mistiming it

I realise, that this week, his direct opponent was goalless. But, as has happened this year and will likely happen before the season is out, if he keeps this up its really, really going to cost us in a game that matters

He has to tighten this up, immediately
 

kerr87

Club Legend
Sep 22, 2016
1,582
2,859
AFL Club
West Coast
Is Reid more a marking player or genuine small forward type? Will he add more value in the team over Cameron or AhChee?
 

bUCKET__

Premiership Player
Nov 13, 2014
3,326
8,819
Melbourne
AFL Club
West Coast
:fire: Nelson and Duggan combo :fire:

33 disposals (31 kicks) @ 77% & 94% DE respectively
17 marks
812m gained

Death by a thousand cuts these blokes, ripping form in transitioning our ball from D50. Finally being allowed to use their gut running to our advantage. Only behind Kelly and Sheed for metres gained this game.
 

swingdog

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 3, 2007
5,667
5,567
Melbourne
AFL Club
West Coast
Positive was seeing the next generation of defence shape up. Duggan, Nelson and Rotham are playing well both as individuals and as a unit.

Duggan and Nelson seem to be joining Shep as that half-back rebounder, which opens up options. The whole thing will also look better when Gov is back, but I'd keep Rotham in there as a starting sub.

Only thing I'd add down back is that we are missing Jetta's creativity coming out of the goal square. It's just pulled us back to the pack of all other clubs, but it's such a weapon.
 

Dark Sharks

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2011
20,774
53,691
Maynard was blocked
AFL Club
West Coast
Because I actually really didn't like the umpiring, here's a list of missed/incorrect free-kicks off the top of my head.


Carlton stiff:

- Naitanui getting rundown and tackled brilliantly by Dekoning at the top of the goal square. Shouldve been HTB. If that was our young ruck Williams who just rundown a gun like Gawn, at a crucial point in the game, to kick a clutch goal, and wasn't paid we'd be filthy. Deserved a free.

- Naitanui tacking it out of the ruck, taking a few steps, being tackled and incorrectly disposing of the ball on the wing. HTB clearly.

- Shuey trip was as clear as day, you've got to pay that. Might not have resulted in anyhing other than an inside 50, but it's a clear free. Carlton stiff.

- Yeo in congestion trying to break a couple tackles... ball up. HTB for mine. Patty Cripps looked at the umpire exasperated and I actually shook my head.

- SPP tackle and 50 obviously. He shouldn't have to make an attempt when its clear as day it isn't possible he can get rid of it.

- Duggan punch out of bounds should've been paid deliberate. Another 50-50 type call which went our way. He needs to learn a lesson for not disguising it.


Few other instances which were 50-50's going our way. Couple tackles on Hurn where he seemingly had an arm free.



WCE

- Cameron HTB was harsh but to be fair he took 2 steps before Dochery clamped him from behind. Somewhat cancelled the SPP call. Ball up for mine but not a "terrible" call.

- Bett's cannoning into Barrass back for a "legal spoil" despite not even attempting to throw a token fist up, which ended directly in a goal was total bullshit.

- The Duggan dumb sheppard for the mark looked like enough of a free for me initially, but Gibbons wasn't even looking at the ball, he was looking at Nelson. Play on.




Cant be stuffed watching a replay but I recall all those things ^
 

Balls In

Norm Smith Medallist
May 25, 2018
7,355
10,122
AFL Club
West Coast
On balance Carlton got violated more than us but we would have won anyway. Whats sucks it is now all the media furore raises its head again and we'll end up with umpires going into games with a preconceived plan to not allow us to win the free kick differential. They shouldn't do it, but they do.
 

HoneyBadger35

Moderator
Aug 11, 2011
19,869
49,678
AFL Club
West Coast
On balance Carlton got violated more than us but we would have won anyway. Whats sucks it is now all the media furore raises its head again and we'll end up with umpires going into games with a preconceived plan to not allow us to win the free kick differential. They shouldn't do it, but they do.
That already happens ;)

12th best free kick differential ie bottom six.

Three more frees at Optus this season in total than our opponents.

The SPS free kick can be a travesty and also the umpiring whinging can be overblown, both can be true.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

DanWCE

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 2, 2015
9,585
18,052
AFL Club
West Coast
On balance Carlton got violated more than us but we would have won anyway. Whats sucks it is now all the media furore raises its head again and we'll end up with umpires going into games with a preconceived plan to not allow us to win the free kick differential. They shouldn't do it, but they do.
We got shafted last week, and they didn't all go our way this week either. Matthew Lloyd wants the AFL to publicly admit one of those SPS frees was incorrect, and NN being tackled and not disposing correctly was incorrectly not paid.

I agree with both. My problem with the latter is that happens 20 times a game, and some Melbourne based clubs have midfielders that seem to build their game on that strategy. There should be no interpretation that the ball can be spilled out in the tackle. If you don't handball it, kick it, or attempt to dispose of it when you're tackled, pay a free.

If the AFL admits fault around Nic, he would want to be careful taking possession from the ruck this weekend as they'll be all over him.
 

The Falcon Strike

Hall of Famer
Nov 18, 2008
34,535
25,980
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
The obvious negative from the game is our inability to adapt when the game gets dirty and becomes a groundball scrap.

No other side looks as good as us when we win it, move it cleanly and hit leading forwards. It's the type of football fans crave.

The problem is when it goes to ground, we seem to lose the groundball hunt. Its something we have struggled with for a while, but something we found a solution to in 2018. We need to rediscover this mojo
 

Coasters7

Premiership Player
Nov 27, 2014
4,946
6,980
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Chelsea
We got shafted last week, and they didn't all go our way this week either. Matthew Lloyd wants the AFL to publicly admit one of those SPS frees was incorrect, and NN being tackled and not disposing correctly was incorrectly not paid.

I agree with both. My problem with the latter is that happens 20 times a game, and some Melbourne based clubs have midfielders that seem to build their game on that strategy. There should be no interpretation that the ball can be spilled out in the tackle. If you don't handball it, kick it, or attempt to dispose of it when you're tackled, pay a free.

If the AFL admits fault around Nic, he would want to be careful taking possession from the ruck this weekend as they'll be all over him.
I reckon a lot of it comes from no one actually knowing the rule (because there doesn’t seem to be a black and white version of it). Players are now more inclined to try and shovel it out or the ball spilling free from guys flapping around because of the new interpretation.

If we strip it right back and just say “You have every right to hold the ball in as much as you like with no prior opportunity but if that ball comes out of your possession any other way than a kick or a handball then you’re cooked”

I think it would be a lot easier to adjudicate. The only grey area would then be prior opportunity but that’s not usually too hard if you just use steps as a guideline. If you take a step or two with the ball under no pressure it’s prior. This “not making a genuine attempt” is bullshit when it comes to the SPS ones. There’s no way that ball is coming out so a token flap around to make it look like you’re “trying” is hilarious.

The rule is currently too subjective so you need to put very clear guidelines in place. No prior, you can play for the ball up. If you drop it or it spills out, pay the free kick no matter how much prior they had, its the player in possessions responsibility to keep that ball.
 

eaglesnutcase

Club Legend
Dec 19, 2007
1,930
1,544
perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
soccer rugby union and le
When we are struggling forward we need to put JK up the ground.Hes tough,hes hard,hes clever,he a good mark and a beautiful passer and decision maker.JD to the square where hes a better wrestler than JK.
Barrass; i dont mind him going for his marks coz thats a confidence thing.What i dont like ; and for the 100th time; hit some body son,hit some body!!!
 

wce4premiership

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 18, 2005
15,334
6,535
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Sheed - Arguably BOG, what stood out at the game to me was his tackling and his handball work. His field kicking still leaves a lot to be desired, I can't recall the last time he sliced up a team with a few neat kicks through the middle. He loves having the goals to his right hand side so he can swing his leg through across his body. 5 tackles, 9 clearances and 2 goals is the best of Dom. 8 turnovers is the part that needs work. I would take that all day though to see him applying pressure like he did.

Darling - Was huge I thought. The ability to get a handball out with 2 guys hanging off him is incredible, he had 3 goal assists, 2 goals himself and to have 9 contested touches out of his total of 12 shows how hard he fights for the ball. Gets sold into trouble a lot does Jack, whether it be a kick to his disadvantage that he punches out for a throw in, or h handball that he has to go and collect before firing out an incredible handball. Great game from him, good disposer of the footy under a lot of pressure.

Naitanui - Also arguably BOG, 4 tackles, 8 touches (7 of which are clearances), and bullying P. Cripps around the ball to help our smaller mids out. 13 hitouts to advantage from his 40 odd hitouts total.

Shuey - The best value midfielder per possession that we have. Lead the game with 29 pressure acts, had 7 tackles and 3 one percenters which were lovely little taps out to other players. Blocked for Redden in the lead up to Sheed's goal and just about didn't put a foot wrong. A very team oriented game. Another smother on a kick that was probably out already, but good intent. He is by far the best midfielder to be kicking to a leading forward, the others waste a lot of kicks.

Duggan - Very good game, missed one ball that lead to a Fischer goal but outside of that he had 11 marks, 3 intercept marks, 468 metres gained, 3 spoils and 93% kicking efficiency. His work off the ball to be a target for others was great, as was his and Nelson's attitude towards moving the ball forwards. Like seeing him going for the intercept mark when he is the third man in.

Barrass - Obviously dropped a few marks, but so did Allen. Neither of them are poor markers of the football, it was just one of those days. I am happy for him to go for those marks, especially without McGovern in the team. 2 intercept marks and 11 spoils for the day.

Rotham - Probably going to get dropped through no fault of his own. Couldn't have done anything more than he did, with 4 intercept marks. 100% DE, 6 intercepts in total and 8 marks.

I thought our defence played really well in a defensive capacity, but there wasn't much precision ball movement coming back the other way. We relied a lot on stoppage work and the dominance of our forwards. Elliot Yeo had 14 ground ball gets, the man is a beast, then Darling at the other end is also hard to bring down, JK applies good pressure and is always dangerous as well. There's still a bit to work on though.

In regards to the poorer players.
Allen was down, dropping marks quite regularly, but his game wasn't bad, he held out ok in the ruck and tackled strongly.
Cameron continues to be down on form and game time.
Ah Chee I thought showed patches, which is all he seems to do lately. It is worth noting though that he is consistently leading the team for sprint and repeat sprint efforts, he does have a presence around the ground ball inside forward 50 but can't seem to create much magic off the deck.


As for the free kicks, the 50m penalty is irrelevant to the discussion.

SPS was caught without prior, nobody believes that he had prior. The umpires explanation during the game was that "he just lay there". I personally hate the fact that players are expected to make token efforts wriggling about on the ground. But that was what lead to the calling of "no genuine attempt", it is the umpires only way of seeing whether he is trying to get the ball out.

Did I think it was HTB? Not really, because I knew he couldn't get the ball out. Unfortunately that isn't enough to satisfy the umpires, where it is written in the rules that a genuine attempt needs to be made.

So the umpire kind of does have a leg to stand on here, as much as I disagree with the call, there was reasons and visual cues that assist them in making the decision.

Was Yeo HTB? No, he is a victim of his own strength and ability to almost shrug any tackle and appear to maybe have his hands free. This also applies to Shuey a lot of the time.

I thought Cameron was gone though, it looked to me live that he wanted to gather and go, however the replay might show differently (I haven't seen it on replay yet).
 

Top Bottom