Review Positives and Negatives vs Collingwood

[nameless]

NaItAnUi DoEsN't GeT eNoUgH dIsPoSaLs

 

[Rowan18]

Finally had a chance to properly watch the game. Was probably one of the better ones we've played, in patches, this year and was finals-like.

-We need Nic Nat to build to 65% TOG.
-Somebody needs to play a shutdown role on Sidebottom or Pendles. SS was so often in space. IMO this was the difference between the last few times we've played them and this game. If not Hutch, somebody else needs to tag.
- The defence was a little disorganised. I'm sure the Pies have put a lot of work into this.

All in all, I reckon we can take a lot from that game. We can handle probably 2 of the above to be down, but all 3 we're up against it.
Better now than in a knockout final. We'll be cherry ripe come finals if we stay fit.

That is a good analysis. Losing the game by 1 point sucks, but overall it was a high standard of footy and we were right amongst it. I'm sure we'll be playing at least one more thrilling final against the pies this year.

 

[omarlittle1]

Ok. I've calmed down since game night. I think a cumulative effect of staying up till 4am most nights watching the world cup for the last few weeks, only to have Australia totally capitulate, then watch us kick the ball to the same god damn spot out of defense 9 times in a row to absolutely no avail, coupled with watching the entire of Neon Genesis Evangelion put me in a very existential and depressed place. Compounded by both my dear teams losing in the space of 24 hours.

The loss is indeed not the end of the world, but to run out of legs like that and keep trying the same transition out of defense, when it never worked once was obscenely frustrating, as we had a chance to win an 8 point game.
Our inability to play 4 quarters consistently this year is becoming a major concern. We aren't badly positioned this season at all but there are some pretty big issues that need to be addressed soon if we're going to seriously consider B2B.

Still; we are sol lucky to support a club like ours. Spoiled, really. Looking forward to seeing the response next week.

 

[kempy]

You would have to hope that repeatedly kicking down the line to the same spot is a Baldrick cunning plan. Maybe Simmo didn’t want to try anything different for a reason. Who knows? Looked like madness but may be seen to be genius in a later game when we move the ball from a kickout to goal in three kicks


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[JEagle]

Kick long to wing. Turn ball over. Win it back in our D50.
Rinse and repeat.

Threw the game plan out and just repeated the same set play again and again, as if indifferent or ignorant to the fact Collingwood had worked it out.

What happened to our switch to open up play? Where was the run and carry? Just needed one bloke to run the ball so they can kick it over the wall that was set up on the wing. Just one run needed to score the one required goal.

Needed to try to score and win it. A sneaky conversation. NN to center square w Darling, Rioli and Cameron ready to run anf give Jetta the ball from a kick in and let him smash one ontp the center. NN tap.it forward.or.mark.

 

[Astro7]

I'm going to miss Fig, it just won't be the same without him.
Actually, that makes me wonder why I actually haven't put him on ignore yet. Guess I won't have to now.

*Did he finally take that compulsory holiday?
Oh well, I bet he won't enjoy it....I just know it will be a lousy holiday!?

*So what tactics did the Pies use in the 2nd half or last Qtr, that worked for them?
They tried something in the centre, hence Bucks chatting with umps prior.
Did they gang-block Gov+Barrass constantly, clearing space for Cox?
In their forward zone-flooded and blocked up space, stifled our defence and applied manic pressure?
Also, and it's no excuse, we came off a 6 day break after a hard slog in the rain+wet.
How much did Cripps injury affect our game-he's often helped us over the line?
(even if Moore was out)

 

[Luuuc]

Did he finally take that compulsory holiday?
Oh well, I bet he won't enjoy it....I just know it will be a lousy holiday!?

Yeah I've got a bad feeling about that holiday. $100 says it will go horribly and that a holiday in Fremantle would have been much better.

 

[TheBeardedEagle]

Bet your sitting there in your tin foil hat too

Nah I bet on Collingwood because I thought Simmo didn't want to win it. He got what he wanted. No more talk about an Eagles Premiership. I got my 13 pints from a $40 bet and I terrorised the bar staff at the Rose and the Spread Eagle Hotel on the back of it last night. The good news is that the Eagles will tear Melbourne apart next weekend

 

[Trouto]

I dont think its the end of the world, losing last Friday. It was a 6 day break and the last few games have been fairly tough on the legs, what with the wet game against the Hawks and kicking so many goals against the dockers ;-)

should be fine after freshening up

 

[eaglesnutcase]

- Bunga; Mate please vary your kickins.Why do we whinge about this week in week out?Your not penned in to the 10,surely you could hit somebody 40 out ANYWHERE.
- It was obvious to everyone we were cooked.There was a contest 5mns into the last quarter where the first five players to arrive were Collingwood.I said "sh#t look at the numbers we're f##ked!!
-Gov hammered by NN.Lets hope theres no damage
-Ryan looks sore.Pity Cripps is injured as it would be hard to rest Ryan.
-OAllen looking good but your long kicks lack penetration so try to go short more often.
-A team can be cooked but it would have been nice to see a little composure in the last.Short passes in defence to maintain possession not hoiks to nowhere.
-Hickeys handpass
-Grundy was going up in packs and not trying to mark.He was doing a two handed slap forward.The Woods guys were ready for it;we were'n't.A basic footy tactic which after the second or third time we should have woken up and adapted.
-I realise we have a great defence but people are putting a lot of work into breaking us down an it would be nice to see us be a little bit more tactically nimble.
-I said last week we were getting too comfortable with Collingwood."yes it will be a hard game but we will win a tight one".As was pointed out to me we dont influence the game.But if social media is getting comfy and the papers are getting comfy,and TV reporters are getting comfy??
-Agree with people about the surface.Definitely looks a bit treacherous underfoot.
-The loss could have been bigger but it was the GF in reverse.We were hanging on.


+JK will be around for a while and look out!There is a lot of pressure on him at the moment but the more it happens the less pressure will be on him.Take your eye off him at your peril!
-At half time my mate said "we are gunna tear 'em a new one".I said that we were going to finish 4-5 so it didnt equate.I still think im right.
-Before the 2016 finals i reckoned the Bullies had played the best footy id seen that year.Our first half on Friday was the best footy ive seen this year.a few injuries,a few guys still finding their feet,and as ive said that Hawks game took a lot out of us.No Hutch to tag,no Duggan,Cripps out early.
-Cameron you ripper!
-Petrol on fire at the WAFL.Straight in for Cripps
-JK charges out,handball to Cripps,cheeky grubber pass to Ryan,magnificent spot up to Cameron off two steps,brave mark by the kid in the middle of who knew what was coming.Have we seen a better passage of footy this year??
-I think Collingwood had more to play for than us.Weve seen what they brought to the table and it got them a point victory.
-Dont cry about not getting a top two finish.We can and will win the premiership from wherever we finish.
-

 

[Balls In]

I dont think its the end of the world, losing last Friday. It was a 6 day break and the last few games have been fairly tough on the legs, what with the wet game against the Hawks and kicking so many goals against the dockers ;-)

should be fine after freshening up

I've calmed down now and in the cold hard light of day that was as bad a ******* loss as could possibly have been from a ladder perspective. Its not the end of the world though, just means we have no margin for error for the rest of the year.

I personally reckon our first half was as good as anyone has produced this year. Against most teams that game is over at half time. Unfortunately our defence kept Collingwood in it and 7 goals from 9 entries cost us the game. Sure you can argue that in the second half the defence was under siege and held up ok, but that was only because Collingwood's slower more predictable entries played to our defensive strengths.

In the first half it was the faster entries that had McGovern and Barrass wanting and it been a feature of all our losses. The inability to strike a balance between accountability and/or attacking defence when the balls coming in quickly. Had they stayed man on man with Cox and Mihocek in the first half we probably win the game by 3 goals, as it was this wasted our dominance and we then ran out of legs. Also, Cole is not playing anywhere near as well as he did last year and I would not be surprised if he is an out next week, whatever you cant have both he and Nelson.

The second half fade out was all largely physical and a big part of why we ran out of legs was the injuries to Cripps and (I think) Ryan, Rioli fading out of the game, NicNat playing limited minutes, Kennedy struggling and the two previous wet weather slogs and short turn around (Collingwood super "lucky" to be facing us after a derby on a 6 day break). At least there's a reason for our fade out. Rioli started brilliantly in the first quarter but for whatever reason struggled after that. Its good to see his ground coverage was up but his intensity around the footy in the second half seemed down. Ryan was hobbling around and played probably his least influential game of the year and I'm hoping Kennedy is recovering from illness because that is the worst game he's played in... well ever I think.

A decent break now and potentially a few new faces should see most of the issues resolve themselves but after this loss we damn well have to be at close to ur best every week.

 

[flyinghi64]

We were the better team for most of the night except that ?????? last qtr WTF.

NICNAT beat a quality ruck once again, pity we kept him on the bench for most of that ???? WTF last QTR.
Comes on inside the last 3 mins and we get our first shot on goal for the qtr, imagine if he came on like 4-5 min earlier.

Jameron just doesn't miss. He knows where the goals are and could just well be our most dangerous small forward. Cripps, Rioli, Ryan and now him.
Our biggest weakness from the past is now probably our biggest weapon, when we get it in there that is.

Hopefully that was the late season loss you need and we go on to not lose another for the rest of the year.

 

[Feeling Groovy]

Well, that was a really strange game. I felt somewhat angry all weekend but also felt we played well in many areas for most of the game. But it was a game we let slip and probably should have won. All respect to Collingwood but I thought we played the better footy for most of the game. But not when it counted and we didn't put them away when we could have. When it counted, they were tougher and won it.

We looked gassed and Kennedy was a liability. That said, people saying he should hang up his boots are being harsh in my view. The guy just needs a good run at it injury (and illness) wise. Whether he can get that going forward at his age is another question but I have no doubt he still has it in him if he can get a clean run at it.

Two things that bugged me during the game were: (i) I thought Hurn's kick ins were so predictable and we really needed to be more creative. Especially in the last quarter, we needed more; (ii) Gaff's lack of contested game/weakness over the ball impacted at times. People criticise Masto for this but Gaff didn't impact the contest several times when he could have and hung off the ball/opposition player. That said, he makes up for it in so many other ways but it is a pet hate of mine and wound me up on Friday for some reason. Jetta can often be guilty of this too but he was great on Friday with his attack at the ball and with his tackling.

 

[Billy Bob65]

Commiserations on the loss.

Here are the midfield frequency stats for the match. If you haven't seen of these posts before, this is an overall summary of how often your players were lining up as one of the 5 mids at bounces.

Overall Summary - 27 Bounces

Masten 25 wing
Yeo 23
Gaff 22 (16w, 6i)
Redden 22 (14i, 8w)
Sheed 22 (4w)
Shuey 21 (1w)

Rucks:
Naitanui 17
Hickey 10

Centre Clearances (as per Champion Data/AFL.com.au
Yeo 5
Naitanui 3
Hickey 1
Redden 1
Shuey 1
Sheed 1
Gaff 1
Rioli 1

1st Half - 20

Masten 18 wing
Yeo 17
Redden 17 (10i, 7w)
Gaff 16 (10w, 6i)
Sheed 16 (4w)
Shuey 16 (1w)

Naitanui 11
Hickey 9

Final Term - 3

Masten 3 wing
Yeo 3
Redden 3 (2i, 1w)
Sheed 3
Gaff 2 wing
Shuey 1

Naitanui 3

Notes:
- Fewest ever players utilised in a midfield rotation by any team in an analysed game. Both Collingwood & West Coast held the previous record of 7

 

[wce4premiership]

Yes at times Simmo's coaching can worry me as he seems quite stubborn in not coming up with an alternative if Plan A is not working. I know he took us to a flag last year so shouldn't complain, but geez he can drive me to distraction sometimes when things aren't working in that he doesn't change a few things.

I mostly just hope he's telling the umpires to man up and let Barrass and Gov fly for the ball. Behind closed doors of course, no need for a public whinge.

Our senior players really should have made a move on Treloar in the 4th, just man him at as stoppage. They basically just got it i50, whereas we were still trying silly handball chains late in the game.

Late reply I know, but what a s**t weekend of sport with England "winning" the world cup as well.

 

[Doashuey]

Notes:
- Fewest ever players utilised in a midfield rotation by any team in an analysed game. Both Collingwood & West Coast held the previous record of 7

This again highlights how big of a loss Cripps was and how it probably affected our last quarter fade out.

 

[Doashuey]

Late reply I know, but what a s**t weekend of sport with England "winning" the world cup as well.

s**t week all round. QLD lost the Origin, Australia lost the WC semi, WCE lost the unlosable 8 point game and lost Cripps and NN along with it and the Poms are awarded the WC for a double hit.
Really cant believe the Dockers didnt win on that form line.
At least it is behind us now and can look forward to 8 weeks of perfect footy and another flag despite all of the sooks around here crying that the world has fallen in because we lost a game by a point and B2B is dead. Think they should revisit the game day threads from the Bombers and Crows games last year- I bet they were the same ones throwing massive tantrums and making themselves look stupid- history repeats.

 

[frenchconnection]

This again highlights how big of a loss Cripps was and how it probably affected our last quarter fade out.

Yes when Cripps went off I thought "oh no" as he's got us out of gaol a couple of times this year with a late goal or two. Those injury gods are a curse!

 

[frenchconnection]

s**t week all round. QLD lost the Origin, Australia lost the WC semi, WCE lost the unlosable 8 point game and lost Cripps and NN along with it and the Poms are awarded the WC for a double hit.
Really cant believe the Dockers didnt win on that form line.
At least it is behind us now and can look forward to 8 weeks of perfect footy and another flag despite all of the sooks around here crying that the world has fallen in because we lost a game by a point and B2B is dead. Think they should revisit the game day threads from the Bombers and Crows games last year- I bet they were the same ones throwing massive tantrums and making themselves look stupid- history repeats.

What you say is probably true, however getting 3 injuries (including Duggan the week before) at the wrong end of the season has to have some effect as not sure how Petrucelli, Waterman & Co will stand up in the finals as they're still fairly inexperienced.

We only had Nic back for a couple of games but he did make a difference - feel for the guy - probably with hindsight they should not have put him back on after sustaining his ankle injury but we were already one man down with Cripps off. Hindsight is a wonderful thing though!

 

[Doashuey]

What you say is probably true, however getting 3 injuries (including Duggan the week before) at the wrong end of the season has to have some effect as not sure how Petrucelli, Waterman & Co will stand up in the finals as they're still fairly inexperienced.

We only had Nic back for a couple of games but he did make a difference - feel for the guy - probably with hindsight they should not have put him back on after sustaining his ankle injury but we were already one man down with Cripps off. Hindsight is a wonderful thing though!

For sure but all 3 are a chance of returning for finals at this stage- we should find out if that is true of NN later today. Last year we lost NN in round 17, Gaff- probably our best midfielder of 2018 a couple of weeks later and then Sheppard in the Qualifying final. We have young blokes that can step up and do what needs to be done. We are still in with a shot.
The sooking was in full swing well before we even knew NN had a serious injury. It wasnt due to injuries, it is due to some of our fans being mentally weak and losing their sh1t because we got done by a top 4 (and very desperate) side by a point. Sure it was dissapointing and we fell in a bit of a hole but some of our fans are in full survival mode, not wanting to have a bit of faith in case things dont go the way they want and it makes them cry. Id rather be optomistic and accept what happens down the line than have a sook if the going gets a bit tough.

 

[flyinghi64]

For sure but all 3 are a chance of returning for finals at this stage- we should find out if that is true of NN later today. Last year we lost NN in round 17, Gaff- probably our best midfielder of 2018 a couple of weeks later and then Sheppard in the Qualifying final. We have young blokes that can step up and do what needs to be done. We are still in with a shot.
The sooking was in full swing well before we even knew NN had a serious injury. It wasnt due to injuries, it is due to some of our fans being mentally weak and losing their sh1t because we got done by a top 4 (and very desperate) side by a point. Sure it was dissapointing and we fell in a bit of a hole but some of our fans are in full survival mode, not wanting to have a bit of faith in case things dont go the way they want and it makes them cry. Id rather be optomistic and accept what happens down the line than have a sook if the going gets a bit tough.

But didn't we get annihilated, trounced, blown away by a far superior midfield at the top of it's game???
Going by the media feedback of Friday night that is all I hear.

I have never heard a ONE point win get such plaudits before.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Pardon the intrusion but what a game that 1st half was, a genuine fast flowing shoot out - could've been our downfall but we held our own even though not playing our key brand.

That's what's been missing our last few contests for us is the suffocation brand that we brought in the last qtr and a half. If we don't apply that style we lose that game and the reason we've been losing the last two. Poor conversion also nearly lost this game for us.

No Hutchings was a huge blow and allowed Sides off the chain, Cripps a big loss too and disrupted your forward structure a bit. Mayne on Hurn, nullified his quarterback role and allowed Cox and Checkers I50 grabs in contests.

WC on face value look like a flashy transition team which they are but they are more than that much more. They're actually a good contested footy / clearance team. Still probably the best list and their best footy is the best.

On face value Collingwood look like a grunt team and they are but they are more than that too. They rely on swarm and spread footy which is also their achilles heel. It's risky because if they don't win at the coalface they're exposed for numbers on the outside but they are so good at suffocating the opp it allows them transition on the ball win. Kind of a Pagans paddock if you will. List is the ace in the deck it's the versatility and pressure that is their trump card.

I expect WC to still finish top four and are still a big big chance for top two. We Pies have a lot of respect and revere WC.

 

[Keys]

Pardon the intrusion but what a game that 1st half was, a genuine fast flowing shoot out - could've been our downfall but we held our own even though not playing our key brand.

That's what's been missing our last few contests for us is the suffocation brand that we brought in the last qtr and a half. If we don't apply that style we lose that game and the reason we've been losing the last two. Poor conversion also nearly lost this game for us.

No Hutchings was a huge blow and allowed Sides off the chain, Cripps a big loss too and disrupted your forward structure a bit. Mayne on Hurn, nullified his quarterback role and allowed Cox and Checkers I50 grabs in contests.

WC on face value look like a flashy transition team which they are but they are more than that much more. They're actually a good contested footy / clearance team. Still probably the best list and their best footy is the best.

On face value Collingwood look like a grunt team and they are but they are more than that too. They rely on swarm and spread footy which is also their achilles heel. It's risky because if they don't win at the coalface they're exposed for numbers on the outside but they are so good at suffocating the opp it allows them transition on the ball win. Kind of a Pagans paddock if you will. List is the ace in the deck it's the versatility and pressure that is their trump card.

I expect WC to still finish top four and are still a big big chance for top two. We Pies have a lot of respect and revere WC.

Our two sides match up on each other pretty well despite having quite different structures. Explains why recent games have been such good quality arm wrestles

You were due a win and were the better side on the night. I think there’s a fair bit of mutual respect between our clubs and my experience with Collingwood fans has been positive particularly on BF

 

[frenchconnection]

For sure but all 3 are a chance of returning for finals at this stage- we should find out if that is true of NN later today. Last year we lost NN in round 17, Gaff- probably our best midfielder of 2018 a couple of weeks later and then Sheppard in the Qualifying final. We have young blokes that can step up and do what needs to be done. We are still in with a shot.
The sooking was in full swing well before we even knew NN had a serious injury. It wasnt due to injuries, it is due to some of our fans being mentally weak and losing their sh1t because we got done by a top 4 (and very desperate) side by a point. Sure it was dissapointing and we fell in a bit of a hole but some of our fans are in full survival mode, not wanting to have a bit of faith in case things dont go the way they want and it makes them cry. Id rather be optomistic and accept what happens down the line than have a sook if the going gets a bit tough.

Well as I said in another post "I'm just going to go with the flow as far less stressful"! What will be will be I guess

 

[Carringbush2010]

Our two sides match up on each other pretty well despite having quite different structures. Explains why recent games have been such good quality arm wrestles

You were due a win and we’re the better side on the night. I think there’s a fair bit of mutual respect between our clubs and my experience with Collingwood fans has been positive particularly on BF

We wouldn't have won if we did not bring that suffocation game, that brand disallows oppositions to play how they want and is the only way we can defeat precise transition teams like WC.

Make no mistake we cannot win the comp unless we bring that brand.