Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs Collingwood

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DCT88

Rookie
Jan 6, 2016
34
32
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GWS
Sorry to intrude.

For us Melbournians locked up with stage 4 restrictions footy has become even more of a highlight, and last night was another cracker between our clubs; it was a magnificent contest. The hug exchanged between Ryan and Maynard at the end shows the respect between the 2 sides.

Best of luck and see your mob in '21.
Agreed, best game I've seen in years, 2 sides going at each other like maniacs, shame there had to be a loser
 

ep2018

Bigfooty Pessimist
Sep 16, 2006
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Pardon the intrusion and come in peace, cracking game and both teams deserved winners.

But on this comment, no, just no, you'll be all alone on this line of thinking.

The 'medium' O is being groomed for JK role, who btw should still go around next year such is his dominance. Darling is in prime mode at the minute.

That midfield, no other team could match that on paper - maybe giants.

That back 6 - with depth if required is one of the best in the comp and is not about to fall off a cliff.
Dont mind me, I'm the board pessimist. Was a bit melty last night.
 

3agles87

Rookie
Feb 24, 2019
43
117
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West Coast
Okay, from the "outsider looking in" perspective, you did cop the sharp end of the umpiring stick last night, but you usually do pretty well with them.

AFL umpiring IS overwhelmingly the major issue that the AFL need to deal with, but it is very easily wallpapered over when fans only speak up from their own teams perspective, then remain silent otherwise, and it's ably facilitated by the complicity of an AFL media to such an extent that it could only suggest conspiracy.

I'd go so far as to suggest that between 1/4 to 1/3 of results have been determined this year due to appalling inconsistency and "discretion". The game is only going to go backward whilst this remains unaddressed.

In their defence, the speed and fitness of the modern game does play a significant role in compounding this problem. It also needs to be addressed.

Change will only come about when enough people take a stand from a non parochial viewpoint.
I agree and think the umpires have the most difficult game in the world to umpire:
- blocking in the marking contest is sparingly called, but happens at almost every contest;
- is it kicking in danger or is it contact to the legs;
- holding the ball is nearly indecipherable, you are better off shovelling the ball to advantage than trying to dispose of it correctly. It is a modern day skill for the ball to “spill” out to advantage in the tackle. Prior opportunity, did the person make a genuine attempt, tackles that slip high but are not called, what a sh*t show;
- constant holding off the ball, both players holding on but umpires only see it one way;
- was the person taken high or did they lead with the head or duck;
- With modern short kicking, was it a mark or is it play on because a ball did not go 15 metres;
- is it deliberate out of bounds or was it sufficiently camouflaged.

Not only do umpires have to call what they see, they often have to assess the intent of the players, and the inconsistency is ruining the game. It doesn’t help that the AFL continuously change the rules or appear to ‘crack down’ on particular rules according to whim or some beat up by the media.

I don’t know about your statistics for the impact of umpiring on the outcomes of games, but I would put last nights game down as one that was influenced by umpiring. The Eagles should have won regardless, if only we had the composure to take our opportunities.
 

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woosha24

Premiership Player
Apr 5, 2015
4,553
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Pardon the intrusion and come in peace, cracking game and both teams deserved winners.

But on this comment, no, just no, you'll be all alone on this line of thinking.

The 'medium' O is being groomed for JK role, who btw should still go around next year such is his dominance. Darling is in prime mode at the minute.

That midfield, no other team could match that on paper - maybe giants.

That back 6 - with depth if required is one of the best in the comp and is not about to fall off a cliff.
Our problem is that the club never considers "just making finals" a success. Unless we address our shortcomings we'll bob around the bottom half of the 8 for a few years not really achieving anything before Simmo gets the axe. We're frustrated that we're looking at another 05/06 West Coast side - full of talent on every line but unable to achieve what they should be achieving (aka multiple flags while in their window).

Credit to Collingwood last night though - we absolutely should have butchered you like livestock in a standard 24-30pt win, but your mob took all the criticism and barbs levelled at you during the break and used it to play out of your skins. Shocked us early and forced us to play catch up all night, never quite being able to pull away. If the roles were reversed and we were forced to quarantine in Melbourne we would have rolled over and lost by 50pts. Would love to see you guys face off against Richmond in the GF and beat them by less than a goal with a dodgy free kick.
 

Carringbush2010

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Jun 6, 2016
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Dont mind me, I'm the board pessimist. Was a bit melty last night.
Unfortunately for WC, the Pies actually played like they should - none of this chip, possession trying to find the perfect i50 bullsh1t. So yeah can understand your frustration - you play the Pies when they finally play like they should.

At least you've got a flag while we've got bupkis.
 

Carringbush2010

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Our problem is that the club never considers "just making finals" a success. Unless we address our shortcomings we'll bob around the bottom half of the 8 for a few years not really achieving anything before Simmo gets the axe. We're frustrated that we're looking at another 05/06 West Coast side - full of talent on every line but unable to achieve what they should be achieving (aka multiple flags while in their window).

Credit to Collingwood last night though - we absolutely should have butchered you like livestock in a standard 24-30pt win, but your mob took all the criticism and barbs levelled at you during the break and used it to play out of your skins. Shocked us early and forced us to play catch up all night, never quite being able to pull away. If the roles were reversed and we were forced to quarantine in Melbourne we would have rolled over and lost by 50pts. Would love to see you guys face off against Richmond in the GF and beat them by less than a goal with a dodgy free kick.
1/ Clubs should never be content with making finals, if that is the mantra, you may as well take your bat and ball and go home.

2/ You would've slaughtered the Pies IF they continued playing the rubbish they've dished up for most of the last two seasons. Take the game on and they're hard to stop because of ball speed. Play that possession searching for the perfect i50 bullsh1t then yeah WC win by 12 goals.

3/ If you think this is the Pies potential think again, sure we played like we should but that doesn't mean we witnessed the ceiling. There's still more upside in this team. But it's a lot of work to beating richmond in the GF, potentially yes, but all depends on whether that's executed.

4/ WC were far from potential also, potential v potential WC win every day of the week.
 

domus

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I've never liked the Pies, but after 18 I did feel a little sorry for them and their supporters and didn't begrudge them success. I know it's petty, but after last night I genuinely really really dislike them. I know it may sound like sour grapes but I felt we didn't lose fair and square, so I can't accept the defeat graciously. I will credit their performance though, did not lie down. Don't mind blokes like Pendlebury, but like you at least half of the team really gives me bad vibes. But I don't know them personally so I shouldn't judge too much. I would have gone for them vs Geelong but now not sure. I really don't care who wins that, just want Brisbane to tear the winner a new one. Come on Brisbane or Port, stick it to the Vics. Living in Victoria the Vic bias does get to you.
Try losing a grand final when you don't think it was 'fair and square'-not once but seven or eight times.
 

Rowan18

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Feb 20, 2018
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I had an absolute ball at the game last night. Was heartbroken at the loss, but it was an absolute cracker of a final. I think we are building an amazing rivalry with the Pies, with two finals decided by less than a goal combined!

Our team has some issues but there are easy fixes. Our top end talent matches any team, it is our bottom 4-6 players that let us down. Fortunately that is an easy fix, we just need to prune some dead weight and get some role players in. HFF and a hard tackling midfield roleplayer are the priority. With lists being reduced, there should be some delisted free agents to pick up, or low value trades for third rounders etc. Possibly even WAFL rookies (get Alec Waterman back).

That should help us solve our issues with forward pressure and increase our tackling and contested possessions.

The next glaring area is coaching. Gameplan needs to be torn down and reinvented. Simmo usually sticks to his guns for a few seasons, but both times we have overhauled the plan we have made GFs. Also need a decent midfield coach. Our stoppages are absolute garbage and we have been unable to get the best out of Shuey, Yeo and Kelly in the same side. Given all three can go forward and be dangerous, that would also be a convenient fix for our HFF.

Glad to hear Van berlo is moving on. Will give us a chance to grab some better talent.

Future is still bright. We are blessed with such a strong club and we know they will be hungry to make amends next year.
 

Breva_

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The deliberate against McGovern in the 1st, was it paid because he stepped over the line or was a free paid because he kicked the ball away after he went over the the line?
 

Shuestar13

Club Legend
Aug 31, 2011
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I had an absolute ball at the game last night. Was heartbroken at the loss, but it was an absolute cracker of a final. I think we are building an amazing rivalry with the Pies, with two finals decided by less than a goal combined!

Our team has some issues but there are easy fixes. Our top end talent matches any team, it is our bottom 4-6 players that let us down. Fortunately that is an easy fix, we just need to prune some dead weight and get some role players in. HFF and a hard tackling midfield roleplayer are the priority. With lists being reduced, there should be some delisted free agents to pick up, or low value trades for third rounders etc. Possibly even WAFL rookies (get Alec Waterman back).

That should help us solve our issues with forward pressure and increase our tackling and contested possessions.

The next glaring area is coaching. Gameplan needs to be torn down and reinvented. Simmo usually sticks to his guns for a few seasons, but both times we have overhauled the plan we have made GFs. Also need a decent midfield coach. Our stoppages are absolute garbage and we have been unable to get the best out of Shuey, Yeo and Kelly in the same side. Given all three can go forward and be dangerous, that would also be a convenient fix for our HFF.

Glad to hear Van berlo is moving on. Will give us a chance to grab some better talent.

Future is still bright. We are blessed with such a strong club and we know they will be hungry to make amends next year.
I really, really hope we will open the cheque book per se and find a quality assistant to take on the midfield role. If management want success, then that should be a priority!
 

squashface

Masten and Waterman
Feb 26, 2012
10,272
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I've gotta say as flat as I still am, it was brilliant to see Liam Ryan now generate the same kind of excitement as guys like Charlie Cameron and Eddie Betts do/did. It all seemed to click for him midway through this season so it is so good to see this guy become one of the best small forwards in the comp.
 

kranky al

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The deliberate against McGovern in the 1st, was it paid because he stepped over the line or was a free paid because he kicked the ball away after he went over the the line?
reckon im alone on this board with this but he needed to do more to get off

he didnt even try - just moved out of bounds - it was deliberate af and he got called on it.
 

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ziad

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May 2, 2009
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I agree and think the umpires have the most difficult game in the world to umpire:
- blocking in the marking contest is sparingly called, but happens at almost every contest;
- is it kicking in danger or is it contact to the legs;
- holding the ball is nearly indecipherable, you are better off shovelling the ball to advantage than trying to dispose of it correctly. It is a modern day skill for the ball to “spill” out to advantage in the tackle. Prior opportunity, did the person make a genuine attempt, tackles that slip high but are not called, what a sh*t show;
- constant holding off the ball, both players holding on but umpires only see it one way;
- was the person taken high or did they lead with the head or duck;
- With modern short kicking, was it a mark or is it play on because a ball did not go 15 metres;
- is it deliberate out of bounds or was it sufficiently camouflaged.

Not only do umpires have to call what they see, they often have to assess the intent of the players, and the inconsistency is ruining the game. It doesn’t help that the AFL continuously change the rules or appear to ‘crack down’ on particular rules according to whim or some beat up by the media.

I don’t know about your statistics for the impact of umpiring on the outcomes of games, but I would put last nights game down as one that was influenced by umpiring. The Eagles should have won regardless, if only we had the composure to take our opportunities.
Pottered around a bit of umpiring, I think the AFL have contributed to the problem with odd rule interpretations that change over a season and require mind reading for a corrent interpretation. Not thought through well like most things the AFL does.
 

Rowan18

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Feb 20, 2018
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Try losing a grand final when you don't think it was 'fair and square'-not once but seven or eight times.
I don't mind the pies and talked to many gracious supporters at the Camfield after the game last night. Will be backing you to beat Geelong.
 

madfx

All Australian
Apr 7, 2012
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reckon im alone on this board with this but he needed to do more to get off

he didnt even try - just moved out of bounds - it was deliberate af and he got called on it.
I was fine with it, but it's the inconsistency that is the killer. Pies did it same quarter exact same spot opposite f50 and got away with it. Was ******* identical. This is the problem with the game. Too many ticky touchwood 50 50 rules
 

Astro7

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Aug 6, 2017
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I need to watch the game again and saviour/dissect every moment - watched it in a small room full of screaming relatives, was hard to take it all in!?
Positives - next season with maybe Rioli back and some experienced youth with another preseason under their belts-same for TK! Much to look forward to!!
Doesn't matter if Pies ended our run, shows how hard it might've been anyway...but we still have a Cup! They still trying to get one, but if they do, hope they whack Port or Tigers in a GF!!!
 

Goroyals22

Team Captain
Jun 29, 2014
536
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I need to watch the game again and saviour/dissect every moment - watched it in a small room full of screaming relatives, was hard to take it all in!?
Positives - next season with maybe Rioli back and some experienced youth with another preseason under their belts-same for TK! Much to look forward to!!
Doesn't matter if Pies ended our run, shows how hard it might've been anyway...but we still have a Cup! They still trying to get one, but if they do, hope they whack Port or Tigers in a GF!!!
Sorry to tell you Rioli wont be back next year.. no chance


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

kranky al

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I was fine with it, but it's the inconsistency that is the killer. Pies did it same quarter exact same spot opposite f50 and got away with it. Was ******* identical. This is the problem with the game. Too many ticky touchwood 50 50 rules
wasnt the same - the pies player was pushed out - mcgov just went out with no contact.
 

Snake_Baker

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I agree and think the umpires have the most difficult game in the world to umpire:
- blocking in the marking contest is sparingly called, but happens at almost every contest;
- is it kicking in danger or is it contact to the legs;
- holding the ball is nearly indecipherable, you are better off shovelling the ball to advantage than trying to dispose of it correctly. It is a modern day skill for the ball to “spill” out to advantage in the tackle. Prior opportunity, did the person make a genuine attempt, tackles that slip high but are not called, what a sh*t show;
- constant holding off the ball, both players holding on but umpires only see it one way;
- was the person taken high or did they lead with the head or duck;
- With modern short kicking, was it a mark or is it play on because a ball did not go 15 metres;
- is it deliberate out of bounds or was it sufficiently camouflaged.

Not only do umpires have to call what they see, they often have to assess the intent of the players, and the inconsistency is ruining the game. It doesn’t help that the AFL continuously change the rules or appear to ‘crack down’ on particular rules according to whim or some beat up by the media.

I don’t know about your statistics for the impact of umpiring on the outcomes of games, but I would put last nights game down as one that was influenced by umpiring. The Eagles should have won regardless, if only we had the composure to take our opportunities.

Great response, it's patently obvious that it is a tactically trained aspect of the game now, and it's no coincidence that the better sides do it well!

I remember a time when competing for the ball was the only focus, and it made this game great. Now teams actually decide the outcomes of matches by how well they can negate players going for the ball and clog up space with running power. The actual footballers are having less & less effect on matches based upon individual football talent. It's robotic and rubbish to watch.
 

Agent93

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wasnt the same - the pies player was pushed out - mcgov just went out with no contact.
I wish I had a recording of the game but, mid 2nd quarter I believe, Jamie Elliott walked it over under slight pressure in similar space to Gov. The crowd went ballistic for good reason. Subsequent ones were under tighter pressure, or players (eg. Pendlebury in early 4th quarter) taking contact before walking over.
 

Eastwestcoast

Debutant
Nov 27, 2018
55
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I agree and think the umpires have the most difficult game in the world to umpire:
- blocking in the marking contest is sparingly called, but happens at almost every contest;
- is it kicking in danger or is it contact to the legs;
- holding the ball is nearly indecipherable, you are better off shovelling the ball to advantage than trying to dispose of it correctly. It is a modern day skill for the ball to “spill” out to advantage in the tackle. Prior opportunity, did the person make a genuine attempt, tackles that slip high but are not called, what a sh*t show;
- constant holding off the ball, both players holding on but umpires only see it one way;
- was the person taken high or did they lead with the head or duck;
- With modern short kicking, was it a mark or is it play on because a ball did not go 15 metres;
- is it deliberate out of bounds or was it sufficiently camouflaged.

Not only do umpires have to call what they see, they often have to assess the intent of the players, and the inconsistency is ruining the game. It doesn’t help that the AFL continuously change the rules or appear to ‘crack down’ on particular rules according to whim or some beat up by the media.

I don’t know about your statistics for the impact of umpiring on the outcomes of games, but I would put last nights game down as one that was influenced by umpiring. The Eagles should have won regardless, if only we had the composure to take our opportunities.
The whole umpire discussion is boring and achieves nothing.

Umpires cheating??.. sure, yeah , nah.. of course. Teams lose because they get beaten. Teams win because they are better and/or take their chances when they can.

Hardest game to umpire. Congestion, speed, players gaming all the time.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

madfx

All Australian
Apr 7, 2012
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I wish I had a recording of the game but, mid 2nd quarter I believe, Jamie Elliott walked it over under slight pressure in similar space to Gov. The crowd went ballistic for good reason. Subsequent ones were under tighter pressure, or players (eg. Pendlebury in early 4th quarter) taking contact before walking over.
Yeah that's the one I'm talking about, stepped straight out. Pendlebury was conveniently pushed over the line but did enough to disguise it
 

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