Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs Hawthorn

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KERRPOW

Club Legend
Jul 28, 2008
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Clearances are not the problem.

The team won total clearances 45-30 and outscored Hawthorn 4 goals to zero from centre clearances.

It is everything after the clearance that was a problem tonight.
Exactly. I cant remember the name for this stat, something like "post clearance contested posession" basically who wins the next contesred posession after a clearance. Guess what were dead last.

And we are unnable to regain posession as we're getting outcoached
 

KERRPOW

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Jul 28, 2008
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Redden is average. He had a good second half of the season last year but he too often casually jogs to contests on the field; rarely wins clearances and is slow.
He was a gun at brisbane before injury. But has been very average this year.

Theres been no one bashing the door down to dislodge role players like redden this year.

Our midfield depth is remarkably poor
 

Magnum27

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Sep 27, 2005
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Positive for me, it looks like i won't be shelling out big bucks for finals tickets this year, puts more money in my pocket for my upcoming USA holiday.

If anyone thinking 5th is not all that bad, they have to be kidding themselves, we have never won a premiership from anywhere lower than 4th and that was 92 with a super talented team, much more talented team than this one.

It is folly to right this club off, but this current squad has lacked the hunger all year, you can go back through any game this year and we can see that clearly, the pressure levels from last year are non existent this year, and no one really steps up when the pressure is on, it is all mental,nothing to do with talent, and finishing 5th and needing to travel in consecutive weeks, which will require a great deal of mental strength, three if we happen to make the big dance looks unlikely with this team going on the constant lack lustre efforts this year.

Yes we do have one possible big in to the side, however given he lasted only three games back into his latest come back, before injuring himself again does not fill me with optimism that we can rely on him to make it through 4 tough finals game, anything we get from him will be a bonus.
 

Winky

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Jan 7, 2009
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Too many passengers last night. And established quality players underperforming.

Waterman had a few chances early to impact the game. Blew it. Did little else.

That Rioli knock was fantastic, we had four or five players around the ball, and swarmed forward in what should have been a match turning moment, but Redden slipped, fumbled, and messed it up terribly. It summed up our night.

Petrucelle, while I like his potential, that’s just not acceptable, Cameron must play instead of him.

I withhold much Masten rage on these forums, and only vent rarely about him, so bare with me. but he does not belong out there, and people giving him votes in the votes thread, do so, because of the very low bar he has set for himself, being not as s**t as usual doesn’t mean he is worthy of votes. Out now!

No second chances now, if he is ready, unleash the beast, NN now!

I didn’t think Nelson was too bad either. Want him to stay in the team.
I've only just had an opportunity to watch the game with the benefit of an absence of anger and the ability to scroll back and fast forward the play. I'm not a fan of Masten but he was cleaner and more constructive than most players out there last night. Nearly every player fumbled at least once and some of them several times. As a result of the pressure put on them largely due to the fumbling but also by Hawthorn's set up and aggressive running, players such as Shuey, Yeo, Gaff and Sheed sometimes had to just throw the ball on the boot and that gave an advantage to Hawthorn. There is zero excuse for the dropped marks under no pressure from Barass and particularly Duggan and Duggan was also poor as he held back on several occasions. I couldn't see the value befor the gameof rushing Duggan back in as he hasn't been all that good to date and maybe should have played another game at WAFL levels. Rotham seemed to do at least as good a job as him although you don't really know what the coaches want of each player. I don't understand the criticism of Shuey as he tried to provide grunt and assistance and overall did a good job albeit under pressure at times.

People on here have been critical of Nelson but on the occasions when Hawthorn ran free into open goals, usually Nelson held his man and it was someone else's man who was able to get free. I agree Petrocelli didn't do a lot but he too was a fumbler. Cripps used to be the chief fumbling player in the team but came good halfway through last season and has been good since. Not last night though. I think both Ryan and Rioli don't defend all that well at times and that is a problem but they can tidy that up. Hurn's handball was atrocious last night and he, Duggan and Nelson were far too slow to move the ball on. Nelson seems frightened to take any risk. Barass has suddenly lost confidence and judgement and needs to work hard on his game in the air.

There is a serious case for players like Rotham, Schofield and maybe even Cameron to be called up for the final and I don't think we have anything to lose by bringing Nic Nat back. Given the sudden loss of form by some players I doubt we can win without some change. It will be interesting to watch the WAFL game to see how players are tracking. Finally, you had to say also that it was just "one of those games" for Hawthorn where everything they touched turned to gold whereas the Eagles could do very little right.
 

Benji85

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Aug 22, 2013
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We've struggled with 6-6-6. Been saying it all year, not having the extra off the back of the square has exposed the midfield big time. Was the reason we were so good last year, having that extra mid balanced it all up.

Forward line is also a flooded mess, JK and JD have their space taken and they barely get a run at it.

Can we drop Petrucelle already? His 7 disposals @ 57% is appalling

Hawks played like a top of the ladder side last night, so f*n typical.
 

Fabes

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Jan 22, 2015
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IMO (I could be wrong but something to think about) the move to Optus Stadium with its similar dimensions to the MCG has given West Coast the ability to perform at the MCG a lot better than in recent past, because of familiarity.

However this has had an adverse effect when playing against the Hawks last night because of Clarkson ability to do the research on your game plan and close West Coast down due to his own familiarity with the MCG and therefore the Optus Stadium dimensions.

This result was an anomaly due to Clarkson, Mitchell (and Glass) and the fact the Optus dimensions helped the Hawks (coaches and players) play their natural game that they would if they were on the MCG.

Unfortunately for West Coast the result of the loss, in terms of top 4 ambitions, is felt more so than the loss itself - if that makes sense?

I still believe you're the best team in the comp and hope (if Brisbane don't win it) you go back to back. All is not lost. Have faith that your gameplan was brought down by circumstances that were just an exception to to the rule rather than the norm.

Good luck for the finals. I'll be going for the eagles (and Brisbane) and hope you guys can get that back to back!!

Cheers.
 
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Monocle

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but this current squad has lacked the hunger all year :whitecheck: , you can go back through any game this year and we can see that clearly, the pressure levels from last year are non existent this year:whitecheck:, and no one really steps up when the pressure is on, it is all mental :whitecheck:,nothing to do with talent, Sad but true.
Summed it up pretty well Magnum27 , and the points you make are no better reinforced, than by the fact, that we cant find the application to play for four quarters in a game.

To many living of past glory and haven't put the hard yards in this season, none more so than TB37.

Whats that classic old saying :

" Everyone left it for someone to do it, but nobody did it. " Sums the majority of the season up.
 
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Avalor

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Giant negative - 11 hawk goals from turnovers. The backline has turned to s**t lately - our legendary Gov is almost a liability now with teams playing a quick mobile player on him. Yesterday, he was taken completely out of the picture, and simmo had to move Allen there. Barrass has pooped the bed, and is dropping simple marks. Hurn is not himself. And Shuey was the turnover king. Hickey is ineffective against a true rucks like McEvoy, and Allen doesn't cut it in the ruck.
Where to now?

Go brissie today knock off the tigers for us. Help us out here.
 

UpsideDown

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Apr 25, 2008
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Two things:

- Good teams know how to counter us after last year - they have for most of the year. Simmo is getting out coached but is not progressing and adapting. We have been really out coached the last two weeks especially. Not to put it all on the coach, but that's where it starts.

- Then the last couple of weeks, when we should be peaking, some of our leaders have been found out - tired, fatigue, getting old, no intent? Kennedy has declined exponentially, Yeo and Shuey no where near their best. Hurn and Gov have also been out of form causing the backline in all sorts of disarray. Those our top 5 from last year.

Yesterday was not only bad coz we lost top four, but showed how out of form our leaders are and it is not something that can be turned out in a week for finals.

By some miracle - Simmo needs to get a new plan for the finals, something unpredictable - and the leaders need to really turn it around are we to make the big dance.

Also, how good is Rioli?
 

jorel6669

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Feeling worse after a s**t night of sleep. Was somewhat accepting of our fate last night and felt the pressure was off. Now I'm feeling a bit sick about it all.

We can't win outside the top 4. That'll require 3 straight weeks of travel and while we've had a good away record (in Melbourne), it's too much to do it 3 straight weeks.
 

jorel6669

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Also, dirty that Schofield has been out of the side. We play far too loose in defence. He plays the last two weeks and we may have had different results. Especially for the Richmond game. Barrass' blunders have been unforgiveable for too long.

Kinda over players being labelled as "best 22" just because. Rotham has literally done nothing wrong when he's played and yet he's out for Duggan. This ain't like bringing a Naitanui or Kennedy back into the side. It's freakin' generic flanker because he can't midfield Duggan. Let him be banging the door down before you consider bringing him back.

I think we need someone like Ah Chee in for Petch. His pace is not being used, so why bother? And when he does get it, he's making really rushed decisions. Ah Chee played that pack crasher role beautifully in his only game this year. Use him to crash through instead of Kennedy (who's cooked) or Darling (who's hobbled) and then make our crumbers front and centre for the spill.
 

Eagleboy68

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Jun 11, 2015
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I said drop barrass after Richmond won on the back of his s**t.
He wasn't and he did the same things because there's no accountability.

He's a good player but he's out of form and simpson backs him in.

Schofield has been our best defender all year along with shepherd and he doesn't play?

What ******* madness is this?
 

Eagleboy68

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Jun 11, 2015
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Positive for me, it looks like i won't be shelling out big bucks for finals tickets this year, puts more money in my pocket for my upcoming USA holiday.

If anyone thinking 5th is not all that bad, they have to be kidding themselves, we have never won a premiership from anywhere lower than 4th and that was 92 with a super talented team, much more talented team than this one.

It is folly to right this club off, but this current squad has lacked the hunger all year, you can go back through any game this year and we can see that clearly, the pressure levels from last year are non existent this year, and no one really steps up when the pressure is on, it is all mental,nothing to do with talent, and finishing 5th and needing to travel in consecutive weeks, which will require a great deal of mental strength, three if we happen to make the big dance looks unlikely with this team going on the constant lack lustre efforts this year.

Yes we do have one possible big in to the side, however given he lasted only three games back into his latest come back, before injuring himself again does not fill me with optimism that we can rely on him to make it through 4 tough finals game, anything we get from him will be a bonus.
If Simpson wasn't afraid of making changes to make a statement we wouldn't Be in this position.
Players know they can get away with it because Simpson says "that's not who he is"
 

Balls In

Premiership Player
May 25, 2018
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Feeling worse after a s**t night of sleep. Was somewhat accepting of our fate last night and felt the pressure was off. Now I'm feeling a bit sick about it all.

We can't win outside the top 4. That'll require 3 straight weeks of travel and while we've had a good away record (in Melbourne), it's too much to do it 3 straight weeks.
You just know Brisbane will get rolled today and then the Beagles to deny Nic Nat a warm up game next week. While we are at it the poms will probably get the 200 odd runs they need as well. Its been that sort of week.
 

Eagleboy68

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You just know Brisbane will get rolled today and then the Beagles to deny Nic Nat a warm up game next week. While we are at it the poms will probably get the 200 odd runs they need as well. Its been that sort of week.
Yeah went from glorious on Friday night to wtf this morning
 

Eagleboy68

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Jun 11, 2015
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One thing I've noticed is that while the Optus stadium dimensions suit us as it's similar to mcg. The down side is it suits Victorian sides as well as they are used to the dimensions

Subiaco oval gave us a advantage at home as they had to change their game plan generally.
 

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