Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs Richmond

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HoneyBadger35

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Honestly one of the biggest positives of the game was your call, mate. I'd happily contribute to some kind of patreon or something too keep these coming.
Thanks mate, I appreciate that. No need for a Patreon or anything of the sort (yet ;)), just hoping that we can offer a decent alternative to listening to the Channel Seven blokes want themselves silly over Dusty getting on the end of the easiest goal in the world.
 

xInfected_Virus

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Richmond and Collingwood.
Problem with this idea that we just need to withstand the pressure and stick to our kick-mark game is that Richmond’s defenders are all very good overhead as well.

So if we can’t run and handball (because that feeds into Richmond’s plan) we also can’t kick it to contests because Darling will get beaten every time. Kennedy being out exacerbated it, but Balta absolutely destroyed Darling one on one.

If our supposed aerial advantage in the forwardline is nullified - and Richmond seem to have worked out how to nullify McGovern and Barrass in the backline - then we are kinda screwed.

We need to win or halve the aerial contests up forward, and crumb/pressure better if it is halved. Unfortunately all of our key forwards are more leading types. It would be great to have one gun pack marker to make Balta more accountable.
If we verse them in finals, they're most likely gonna get Astbury, Broad and Grims back so they can match up against our tall forward line. Astbury will go on Kennedy, Balta will go on Darling, Broad will go on Allen, Grimes will go on Ryan and Vlaustin will go on Waterman. JK can get Astbury on the lead but they'll block JK's leading space but Darling won't be able to do anything with Balta on him. Ryan will be nullified by Grimes, Broad will be all over Allen and Vlaustin will out mark Waterman.

They'll also get Prestia and Edwards back so it cancels out having Yeo and Redden back in even though Yeo's mongrel and Redden's accurate handballs are important to us. JK maybe a lead up type but he lost his pack crashing ability, time for Darling, Waterman, Allen or even Ryan to crash packs. Barrass and McGovern has to start spoiling them to the boundary, too many times we've seen them spill or miss the mark and it lands to a Richmond crumber who goals it.
 

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HoneyBadger35

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At the risk of heading into very pessimistic territory, I tried to flag this last year when we lost to Hawthorn.

2018 is really looking like a bit of an anomaly when it comes to us beating the top teams in conditions that don’t favour us.

Every other year under Simpson we have been very successful in terms of wins and losses, finals appearances, but we can’t seem to manage to go up a gear when things don’t suit us. Except for in 2018.

This year is looking the same, despite adding Kelly and Naitanui dominating. I hope the team proves me wrong by the end of the season.

Obviously not every team can win the flag every year as it’s a huge task to win one, but given the quality of the list it feels like we might not have achieved as much as we should have. Can’t completely assess that til the end of the year but.
2015 - we beat Fremantle in a first vs second derby in Round 20 odd. Kept our first place chances alive. Freo had everything to play for, first place locked up and tying the derby ledger. Hawks beat us narrowly at Subi, then we responded two weeks later thumping them in a QF.

2016 - we finished sixth, and did so because we beat third, fourth and fifth place in a row to end the season. Two away, one at Subi.

2017 - Adelaide (the best team in football that year and made the GF). We beat them by 27 in a must win Round 23 to make finals by 0.5%. The Port final speaks for itself that year. We beat second place Geelong that year.

2019 - we beat Collingwood resoundingly at the MCG. They pipped us by a point, so if that's proof we can't go with good teams then the Round 3 win is proof we can. Losing to Richmond last year by a goal at the MCG is hardly baby out with the bathwater stuff. GWS made the Grand Final and we beat them by 52. If last year's loss to the Hawks at home is proof we can't go when things don't suit us, what does our victory over them at the MCG in the rain prove?

2020 - four goals down against a terrific Geelong side. Rallied back to win. At home, but sorry, that counts.

It's very easy to say we can't do certain things when you exclude all the times we've done that thing. The concept of "when things don't suit us" is deliberately vague.

The Simpson era has no shortage whatsoever of massive victories with the team standing up when it's time to do so. Show me a 'good' team that hasn't had their fair share of disappointing results against fellow good sides. Brisbane win a lot these last two years but can't get past Richmond. Richmond win a lot these last four years but can't get past Collingwood. Turns out good football teams are good and there's not much to seperate them.
 

W.C. Fry

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When we play Richmond next I want to see us hit them, just smack them around and bully them off the ball. If we play insipid possession footy expect to lose exactly the same way as last night.
They do love the long handball. At least a couple times a game you could line someone up and knock the sh*t out of them like Ryan on Maynard in the GF.

Everyone is bagging Gov in here but I wonder how bad the injury he copped early actually was. Barrass got him nicely with his knee to the hip / rib region.
 

Chris_6678

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They do love the long handball. At least a couple times a game you could line someone up and knock the sh*t out of them like Ryan on Maynard in the GF.

Everyone is bagging Gov in here but I wonder how bad the injury he copped early actually was. Barrass got him nicely with his knee to the hip / rib region.
He didnt look right after that to be honest.



Clint Wheeldon

@ClintWheeldon


I’m curious as to what this action during the club song from
@Richmond_FC
Nick Vlaustin last night is meant to symbolise? What’s he up to
@brendongale25
?


Anyone good with Twitter can you post that vid?

In it Vlasuitin looks like he is mocking someone injecting into their arm during their song. Wonder what he is implying.
 

MrKK

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I'd suggest you check the ladder again, Richmomd have played 14 games after last nights game and after this round so would have Brisbane, Geelong and Port, whilst we have only played 13. Brisbane have the bye this rnd the loss cost us a chance to be level with them on wins.

Byes to come Cats rnd 15 whilst we play Bulldogs, win and we are only one game behind them.Tigers have a bye in rnd 16 whilst we play Bombers, win and we are half a game in front of them. Rnd 17 Tigers and Cats play each other , one will obviously lose and we play Saints and win. If Tigers lose we will be a game and half in front of them with one round to go. Win all our next four and we will go top 4 without a doubt, it will just be a matter of where we finish, with a few upsets we could finish as high as 2nd, but more than likely we will finish 3rd.
If we do finish 3rd or 4th I really want it to fall so we play Port away in a QF first up. 2017 Mk II.
 

HoneyBadger35

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When we play Richmond next I want to see us hit them, just smack them around and bully them off the ball. If we play insipid possession footy expect to lose exactly the same way as last night.
The issue last night was that we tried to go with them physically and play contested. We didn’t play “insipid” possession footy. We didn’t play possession footy at all. That was our problem. 40 odd marks for the game. No long chains of control. Ball was loose and there to be won at ground level all day, which Richmond thrive on.

Possession footy is the solution against Richmond and has been proven to be so by many clubs several times. Our problem last night was we didn’t get any.
 

ziad

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They do love the long handball. At least a couple times a game you could line someone up and knock the sh*t out of them like Ryan on Maynard in the GF.

Everyone is bagging Gov in here but I wonder how bad the injury he copped early actually was. Barrass got him nicely with his knee to the hip / rib region.
Looked injured but he would soldier on. Could be out for Tuesday (my estimate no source)
 

FreeTK

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At the risk of heading into very pessimistic territory, I tried to flag this last year when we lost to Hawthorn.

2018 is really looking like a bit of an anomaly when it comes to us beating the top teams in conditions that don’t favour us.

Every other year under Simpson we have been very successful in terms of wins and losses, finals appearances, but we can’t seem to manage to go up a gear when things don’t suit us. Except for in 2018.

This year is looking the same, despite adding Kelly and Naitanui dominating. I hope the team proves me wrong by the end of the season.

Obviously not every team can win the flag every year as it’s a huge task to win one, but given the quality of the list it feels like we might not have achieved as much as we should have. Can’t completely assess that til the end of the year but.
What are your expectations though? When you are up and in the top 8 every year, and top 6 almost every year, you are going to play a lot of "do or die" games that are consequential in determining who ends up winning the flag that year.

We've won some, and we've lost some of those games. Flags are so hard to win. In terms of the "post Hawthorn era" there are 4 other teams who have been just as good as us in Geelong, GWS, Adelaide and Collingwood who don't have a flag to show for their toils.

We need to hold the fort for the next couple of weeks and hope Yeo, Redden, Allen and co come back soon.

If we can finish top 4 with our best 22 healthy, we are just as good a shot as any other team.
 

ziad

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The issue last night was that we tried to go with them physically and play contested. We didn’t play “insipid” possession footy. We didn’t play possession footy at all. That was our problem. 40 odd marks for the game. No long chains of control. Ball was loose and there to be won at ground level all day, which Richmond thrive on.

Possession footy is the solution against Richmond and has been proven to be so by many clubs several times. Our problem last night was we didn’t get any.
not so sure. we didnt work hard enough without the ball but having a bunch under 10 games will do that for a team. Too many inexperienced links.
 

Astro7

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Thanks mate, I appreciate that. No need for a Patreon or anything of the sort (yet ;)), just hoping that we can offer a decent alternative to listening to the Channel Seven blokes want themselves silly over Dusty getting on the end of the easiest goal in the world.
Yes, the downside to all this football, including Optus is the wanky Vic commentators!
(am I allowed to say wanky on here, coz I won't say wanky again if I'm not allowed to say wanky?)
BT needs an anti-anxiety pill or a short clip across the ear with a long golf club-not that I'm advocating violence).
Dermy trying to be the footy intellectual is an oxymoron no?
And straight-faced, straight-batting Pav -conservative commentator by day, kinky leather-hooded patron of the Gimp Club by night!? :oops: (jest kiddin' Pav)
 

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dogswamp

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Bailey looks good, gonna do some old school Gehrig type stuff ups now and then but looks keen.
XOXO - coming on, looks comfortable at top level
Duggy, Shep and Cole - came off their lines to influence the contest.

-
Dunno why everyone hates on Nelson for his kicking, Hutch shows how even an "effective kick" can be unhelpful when his kicks go higher than they do long. (kick effeciency 25% last night). Not quick enough to put pressure on(Tigers are pretty quick across the board and our one pacers-Brander, Shred, Hutch, gaff, cant catch em or get to pressure spots) It isn't an issue if he tags all day, but it took cotch getting 17 odd in the first half to go to him.
JK going down and losing our structure, not only do we lose a rotation but someone who usually plays near 100% game time, but also it meant nic and bailey having more game time and playing forward. Without the chemistry of usual forwards like Misty and even Oscar, it hurt us.
Defenders going for the same ball, often gov barrass and others were in the one pack spoiling one another, that left tigers pacey crumbs to share the handball around til they got snaps on.
-free kick momentum but also free kick psyche and laying doubt, having to change your game to know what is and isnt acceptable, so can't just play natural.
-missing gettable goals isnt so bad in isolation, but when they nail everything it hurts.

Agree we missed some class like jetta, surely we can find a spot for him, he's such a weapon.
4 day break with travel and 5 kids with under 10 games hurts.
Agree Reid scope isnt very high, but he's there because Willie, Cammo, Petch, Vena, JJ, Oscar and Waterman are all unavailable. Is Treacy our only fit forward option now?
 

FreeTK

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Respectfully, I disagree. We didn't lose last night due to a lack of effort. We were up to our eyeballs in that game.
Two contrasting realities:

- Richmond constricted us in a way that didn't allow us to play our game style
- Even when playing the game almost exclusively "on their terms" we were competitive

We shouldn't underestimate the importance of the players who we had injured in terms of structure and being able to execute our game plan.

You win or you learn. And now we move on to the next one.
 

Yamumluvsbigcox

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The issue last night was that we tried to go with them physically and play contested. We didn’t play “insipid” possession footy. We didn’t play possession footy at all. That was our problem. 40 odd marks for the game. No long chains of control. Ball was loose and there to be won at ground level all day, which Richmond thrive on.

Possession footy is the solution against Richmond and has been proven to be so by many clubs several times. Our problem last night was we didn’t get any.
Very slippery conditions in night games in QLD. Doesn't bode well for us with all night games left . It looked like we purposely played a more running handball game because of those conditions.
 

FreeTK

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Very slippery conditions in night games in QLD. Doesn't bode well for us with all night games left . It looked like we purposely played a more running handball game because of those conditions.
It’s not the conditions. That is simply just giving them an out.

Richmond took 65 marks and 10 contested.

Issue last time was intensity and effort. Gold Coast game our guys ran harder in the intraclub according to their gps.

We were missing too many talls, lost our structure and couldn’t execute.

Still, effort and intensity was there off a four day break with travel.

We would have beaten most teams last night.

We should still win our remaining games.


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FKASC

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2015 - we beat Fremantle in a first vs second derby in Round 20 odd. Kept our first place chances alive. Freo had everything to play for, first place locked up and tying the derby ledger. Hawks beat us narrowly at Subi, then we responded two weeks later thumping them in a QF.

2016 - we finished sixth, and did so because we beat third, fourth and fifth place in a row to end the season. Two away, one at Subi.

2017 - Adelaide (the best team in football that year and made the GF). We beat them by 27 in a must win Round 23 to make finals by 0.5%. The Port final speaks for itself that year. We beat second place Geelong that year.

2019 - we beat Collingwood resoundingly at the MCG. They pipped us by a point, so if that's proof we can't go with good teams then the Round 3 win is proof we can. Losing to Richmond last year by a goal at the MCG is hardly baby out with the bathwater stuff. GWS made the Grand Final and we beat them by 52. If last year's loss to the Hawks at home is proof we can't go when things don't suit us, what does our victory over them at the MCG in the rain prove?

2020 - four goals down against a terrific Geelong side. Rallied back to win. At home, but sorry, that counts.

It's very easy to say we can't do certain things when you exclude all the times we've done that thing. The concept of "when things don't suit us" is deliberately vague.

The Simpson era has no shortage whatsoever of massive victories with the team standing up when it's time to do so. Show me a 'good' team that hasn't had their fair share of disappointing results against fellow good sides. Brisbane win a lot these last two years but can't get past Richmond. Richmond win a lot these last four years but can't get past Collingwood. Turns out good football teams are good and there's not much to seperate them.
Over the past 6-7 years IMO we’ve had consistently the strongest best 22 in terms of talent across the park.

Brisbane have had one year of being a finals quality side. Collingwood have no key forwards. Richmond’s squad is like Ross Lyon era St Kilda.

Look I’d much rather be in our position than most other teams, but I reckon in a few years time we’ll look back at the squad and think we deserved another flag in the same way we do with the 2000s group

Maybe it’s not about phrasing it as winning when things don’t suit us. you’re right, it’s deliberately vague because it’s not something you can quantify easily and it’s much easier to refute something when it’s not easy to quantify.

But we don’t seem to have been able to grasp our opportunities as consistently as we could have, given the quality of our list and our club’s resources.
 

FreeTK

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Over the past 6-7 years IMO we’ve had consistently the strongest best 22 in terms of talent across the park.

Brisbane have had one year of being a finals quality side. Collingwood have no key forwards. Richmond’s squad is like Ross Lyon era St Kilda.

Look I’d much rather be in our position than most other teams, but I reckon in a few years time we’ll look back at the squad and think we deserved another flag in the same way we do with the 2000s group

Maybe it’s not about phrasing it as winning when things don’t suit us. you’re right, it’s deliberately vague because it’s not something you can quantify easily and it’s much easier to refute something when it’s not easy to quantify.

But we don’t seem to have been able to grasp our opportunities as consistently as we could have, given the quality of our list and our club’s resources.
That’s true through our entire history.

We should have won more flags in the 90’s

We should have won more flags in 00’s

We should win more with this group

Imagine being St Kilda who won their first 19 games in 2009 and went into the GF with a 22-2 record for the year, won 3 out of 4 quarters and didn’t win the flag.

Imagine being Fremantle who in their only grand final are the only team to be rated by CD as the better team and to have lost the GF?

Imagine being Sydney who should have won 3 flags in the 2010’s but only won 1.

We’ve done very well, both over the course of the clubs history and in the era.

You can’t hang your head about the ones that get away.

And there is still a lot to play out this season. We’ve won 8 out of last 9.

Race for this years flag is still very much on.



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eaglesnutcase

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Just musing- When we broke forward we just bombed the ball.Why kick 60m to a 1 v 2 contest when a sideways 30m kick retains possession and allows a reset?
- How many times must we be sold candy?We have a very bad sweet tooth.
- We lost most of the 50-50 umpiring decisions.
- They couldnt miss.
- When we have a 2 on 1 advantage waiting forward of the ball; why do our kickers have 2bob each way and put it in the middle of them...right where the defender invariably sits.
- We lack mongrel.Reiwald and Lynch love to drive the knee in and hurt.We tend to go up looking at the ball.
- Brander is improving but needs to toughen up big time.
- We hesitated on every 50-50 contest.Big difference from last week.We conceded the contest and played chasey.Occasionally you will be late but they'll feel it.
- Theyve brought back the grab NN rule.Ruck taps? dont be stupid; dont watch the ball just run under it and wrestle him.NN this is gunna happen non stop unless you do something about it.Come from the edge of the circle hold your leap and drive your knee as hard as you can into the contest.Your the best athlete going round.If you decide to be a nasty bastard;you'll be the nastiest bastard.Dish some out or just get smashed every week.
- Rotham.Inexperienced he may be but he needs to be faster to move the ball.Marking at CHB an chipping slowly sideways to the flank is just boxing us in.Shepherd does it all the time.We cant have everyone playing safe.The faster you go the better your chances of finding someone in space.
- Bombing it in to the forward line wont work against this mob.They are good in the air and as we saw the spoil to the boundary inevitably found 3 or 4 of their defenders to run the ball out.Lower the eyes .Take a half second to have a look.Geez we waste some footy.
- As good a mark as Ryan is he often spoiled JD.We need crumbers not the odd mark of the year contender.
- Do we have a dedicated tackling coach? Man do we need one.
-
 

flyinghi64

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Dunno. Weirdest thing was watching Barrass absolutely crap himself anytime the ball came in high to Lynch. Gave away a bunch of frees.

I was like.....why? You know how to do this? Why are you wrestling with this dude and giving away frees? You're better than this!
Particularly given last games efforts
 

Monocle

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I don't think I saw Darling have many 1v1s, was usually him vs 2-4. He did incredibly well considering.

The reason our game broke down is we had no talls to take the contested marks. JK, Allen and Waterman were out, so Darling or Ryan were the only targets. Williams was overawed, Nic Nat doesn't mark and Brander is also inexperienced. That was the game right there.
And thats why I thought Simpson should have thrown McGovern forward ..... Lord knows he was doing diddly squat in the backline.

We were out coached and manoeuvred by Hardwick last night, plus he has a much more discipled team, that play their respective roles to a tee.

Make no mistake we were given a great football lesson last night.
Richmond's players play for each other and play team football, conversely we have to many individuals, there are two sorts of players teammates and heroes, we have to many players that play the hero game.

Shytes me no end the number of times over the last five years or so when we are at a numerical advantage at a contest yet we fluff the contest because players sit off the contest waiting for a cheap handball out and then its, hero time.
Players need to just sacrifice the potential seagull possession and take the opposition player out, then the advantage is overwhelmingly ours ......... simple really , BUT it requires every player to be team orientated and forego the hero acts.

Best thing that you can do for a team mate is give them more time or space to work in and that requires players to block, sheppard and sacrifice their own game for their teammates......... its otherwise known as a sacrificial acts.

We missed three of our pure grunt players in Yeo, Redden and Nelson last night and that hurt us big time against a rampant Richmond.

Plenty of lessons to be learnt last night for the players , coaches and match committee when assessing the game plans execution and performance.

Certainly not a lost cause and to be honest IMO the margin flattered Richmond, you get games like that when the rub of the green goes against you, I look at last nights game a little like that.

We are a very good side but not the best side at the minute, some game plan and style tinkering and some better execution and we can beat this mob.
 

woosha24

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Two contrasting realities:

- Richmond constricted us in a way that didn't allow us to play our game style
- Even when playing the game almost exclusively "on their terms" we were competitive

We shouldn't underestimate the importance of the players who we had injured in terms of structure and being able to execute our game plan.

You win or you learn. And now we move on to the next one.
Exactly.

This isnt over, especially if we get top 4 and/ or WA manages to buy the whole finals series.

If we had a full list and played like we did for the first half of last night do we honestly think we'd still lose by 5 goals? I sure as sh*t dont. Hell if we play like we did last night with the current list vs the rest of our fixture we'll p*ss Top 4 in.

Extremely confident. Hardwick coached well last night, those Richmond boys threw everything and the kitchen sink at us and we were only down by what, 6 points at the half? Playing with a bunch of kids off a 4 day break and travelling for the first time in 6 weeks? AND Richmond were kicking em from everywhere?

Lets just say, I await the finals.....
 

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