Review Positives and Negatives vs St Kilda - Rd 4 2021

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amazingjoshy

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We were up 33 halfway through the 3rd without Hurn and Shuey.

And then our senior blokes started playing like millionaires. Gov and Barrass handing St Kilda goals with miskicks. Cripps and JK fighting over a perfect Petch kick to them in the pocket. Darling dropping a sitter in an important moment (though thats just the standard). Kelly missing every target for the whole game. Gaff forgetting where Marvel is and not turning up, again when needed, Crippa doing Crippa things and somehow sucking momentum whenever he gets near the ball.

This is on the senior guys, our supposed "leaders". Kids got us out in front, the leaders gave the Saints a way back and failed to shut the door
 

Freomaniac

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They'll get crunched the next couple of weeks.

Pity our mob is so weak-willed that they gave up such a lead though.
I dislike the term weak willed. There were other factors as well.

Hurn being injred in the backline didnt help.

West coast have a few best 22 players missing and were replaced with younger players. So the quality of the best 22 isnt as strong. Had west coast had a 3 or goal lead, the mind set would of been different.

Had west coasts kicked the 1st goal or 2, maybe the mindset would of been different.

Going to go off topic for a moment. I follow south Adelaide Panthers in the SANFL. They faced North Adelaide in Prospect oval which is Norths home ground.

Half time it was North leading 5.6.36 to Souths 3.6.24.

3rd quarter, South Adelaide had the wind. Kicked 3 goals in the 1st 5 minutes and eventually kicked 7.4.46. to Norths 1.3.9. South Lead at 3 quarter time 10.8.68 to Norths 6.9.45.

North had the breeze and the scoring end in the final quarter. North won the 4th quarter 3.3.21 to 1.3.9. South held on to win 10.11.77. to 9.12.66. I was a bit nervous thinking South were going to be overrun. Bryce Gibbs got only 20 disposals. Last week he got 36 disposals.

Point is a 9 or 10 point lead isnt a lot. A 4 goal lead changes the mindset a fair bit. Kick the 1st goal and the confidence is lifted.


The dogs vs Eagles game 2 weeks ago could of went either way as well.
 

greatwhiteshark

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I dislike the term weak willed. There were other factors as well.

Hurn being injred in the backline didnt help.

West coast have a few best 22 players missing and were replaced with younger players. So the quality of the best 22 isnt as strong. Had west coast had a 3 or goal lead, the mind set would of been different.

Had west coasts kicked the 1st goal or 2, maybe the mindset would of been different.

Going to go off topic for a moment. I follow south Adelaide Panthers in the SANFL. They faced North Adelaide in Prospect oval which is Norths home ground.

Half time it was North leading 5.6.36 to Souths 3.6.24.

3rd quarter, South Adelaide had the wind. Kicked 3 goals in the 1st 5 minutes and eventually kicked 7.4.46. to Norths 1.3.9. South Lead at 3 quarter time 10.8.68 to Norths 6.9.45.

North had the breeze and the scoring end in the final quarter. North won the 4th quarter 3.3.21 to 1.3.9. South held on to win 10.11.77. to 9.12.66. I was a bit nervous thinking South were going to be overrun. Bryce Gibbs got only 20 disposals. Last week he got 36 disposals.

Point is a 9 or 10 point lead isnt a lot. A 4 goal lead changes the mindset a fair bit. Kick the 1st goal and the confidence is lifted.


The dogs vs Eagles game 2 weeks ago could of went either way as well.
i think you are making excuses, this group led by the coach consistently fails every time it gets tough. As soon as any side throws it back in our faces we wilt. it is a consistent pattern under Adam Simpson which never ever gets addressed.
Last week we had people being pointed out because we never rubbed Ports nose into the turf and this week again taking our foot off the pedal has our ass wipped.
This has been happening for years now.
Family, Friends, Flags is ridiculous.
If you are paid to be a footballer then family and friends don’t matter. Football teams have one objective, you either win or lose. And at the WCE losing is not that big a deal. Adam Simpson implements that it’s not the end of the world to lose.
I am sick to death of this soft attitude.
There is not a word Simpson could say today for this defeat. It is simply a bunch of soft front runners who choose to not fight.
No excuse what so eve.
 

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CM9000

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i think you are making excuses, this group led by the coach consistently fails every time it gets tough. As soon as any side throws it back in our faces we wilt. it is a consistent pattern under Adam Simpson which never ever gets addressed.
Last week we had people being pointed out because we never rubbed Ports nose into the turf and this week again taking our foot off the pedal has our ass wipped.
This has been happening for years now.
Family, Friends, Flags is ridiculous.
If you are paid to be a footballer then family and friends don’t matter. Football teams have one objective, you either win or lose. And at the WCE losing is not that big a deal. Adam Simpson implements that it’s not the end of the world to lose.
I am sick to death of this soft attitude.
There is not a word Simpson could say today for this defeat. It is simply a bunch of soft front runners who choose to not fight.
No excuse what so eve.
Someone has a short memory.

Why did we beat Port Adelaide in the SF in 2017?

Why did we beat Collingwood at the MCG for the first time in 23 years in 2018?

Why did we beat Richmond at home in 2018, when they were flying?

Why did we beat Collingwood in the GF after being down by 30 points in the first quarter?

Why did we beat Adelaide in 2019 when they were up by 40 points midway through the third term?

Why did we beat Hawthorn at the MCG in 2019, in the wet?

Why did we beat St Kilda in 2020 when our midfield consisted entirely of Tim Kelly, Nic and a bunch of kids?

All of these are examples to the contrary, and yet you act like they never happened
 

DieSwans

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+ found an awesome Indian restaurant just around the corner.

- this crap at kick ins. Can anyone tell me what the tactical advantage is to this and why do we keep doing it when it’s obviously not working?

100% this.

Every.*******.time during the demise...standing around flat footed too.

Wasn't working, doesn't suit us, but we kept doing it

Cole would be on the left alone, nope, gotta go right

From there, we completely stopped playing our style and didn't have any moment controlling it by foot.

It's like we literally stopped trying.

Top 3 worst performances in memory
 

ukurrie

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We do have a few snowflakes on here when it comes to TV commentary.

The commentators cheer for storylines. Sure, there is some natural bias in there being Victorian and having closer connections to the Saints. But they would be cheering the story of the turnaround of a team who got smashed last week, was under the microscope this week, looked like they were going down again, and turned it around. That is a great story.

It sounded like the comms were biased towards Port on Friday night. Not because of #SAbias, but because of the story that the champ could lose 2 in a row, redemption from the prelim, can the contender take the next step? etc.

I know, on top of all the other real or perceived #VICBIAS, it is too much to take, but we should just chill out a bit on the paranoia.

We should focus on demanding more insightful comms, rather than the ‘dusty, Dusty, DUSTY! GEE WHIZZ’ rubbish.

And you can get that from the WC Big Footy comms team who have seen the bat symbol go up in the sky and seem to be mobilising to call games again.
 

truman

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Pretty devastating loss. Tbh it's not the kind of loss you expect from a premiership side. Of course losses, even big losses are normal but I can't remember a time a Richmond conceded a big lead. I feel like losses like this make opposition teams feel like they are never out of the game. The opposite of what a premiership side feels like, where teams playing against them never feel safe or that they have put them away. Since 2018 can anyone remember us coming back from a deficit? In 2018 I felt teams never felt safe against us - port in Adelaide, GF case in point
 

shooshka

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100% this.

Every.*******.time during the demise...standing around flat footed too.

Wasn't working, doesn't suit us, but we kept doing it

Cole would be on the left alone, nope, gotta go right

From there, we completely stopped playing our style and didn't have any moment controlling it by foot.

It's like we literally stopped trying.

Top 3 worst performances in memory
The kick ins were obvious, but it seemed a complete lack of desire to use the spare/switch (which got us up by 5 goals).

Partially workrate but we also seemed gun shy after some horrible turnovers.

So then we turned it into a contested game (noting 2 things, we are one of the worst contested sides in the comp and more so without Yeo and Shuey - and we must be the absolute worst handballing side in the league. Consistently miss regulation handballs under no or little pressure).

If kick mark is not only our 1-wood, but our irons, putter and recovery, why not just double and triple down on it. May as well lose our way rather than trying to win in a manner that we are so far off the pace on.

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

BlueandGoldforever

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The fact is our style of play drives me crazy as it revolves around Plan A and that is it. I mean kicking the ball out from full-back to the right hand side every time is moronic. Why journalists never question Simpson that is beyond me.

There was no synergy at the centre bouncedowns yesterday and I dare say Kelly has never played a worse game in his life. His handballing yesterday was atrocious. I have to say I never rated him that highly when he was at Geelong.

The reality is that any side can beat us because we don't have that killer instinct. Yes, we can turn it on for a quarter or maybe even a half but for a full game? It doesn't happen.

Until we change too attacking the ball and learning how to tackle, we will continue to be an 'alright side' that makes finals because of our home ground advantage.

Since 2019 we haven't had that 'desire' to be another premiership contender and in the last three rounds we have been outscored in the second half. Is that fitness or attitude or both?
 

Get_The_Gaff

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- this crap at kick ins. Can anyone tell me what the tactical advantage is to this and why do we keep doing it when it’s obviously not working?

McGovern his brain is made of pudding.
He has very good instincts in marking and can read the play better than most in the comp but thinking his way through a situation is way beyond his mental faculties.
Also his coach killer goals to the opposition are very deflating.
 

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Westend

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The fact is our style of play drives me crazy as it revolves around Plan A and that is it. I mean kicking the ball out from full-back to the right hand side every time is moronic. Why journalists never question Simpson that is beyond me.

There was no synergy at the centre bouncedowns yesterday and I dare say Kelly has never played a worse game in his life. His handballing yesterday was atrocious. I have to say I never rated him that highly when he was at Geelong.

The reality is that any side can beat us because we don't have that killer instinct. Yes, we can turn it on for a quarter or maybe even a half but for a full game? It doesn't happen.

Until we change too attacking the ball and learning how to tackle, we will continue to be an 'alright side' that makes finals because of our home ground advantage.

Since 2019 we haven't had that 'desire' to be another premiership contender and in the last three rounds we have been outscored in the second half. Is that fitness or attitude or both?

As much as I hate to say it this post is spot on

We cannot play 4 quarters regardless if we win or lose and as you say there seems to be no desire or killer instinct within the playing group.
 

Obeanie1

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Not only wrong but suggests you know little about the players in question
Really looking forward to Williams sharing ruck duties with Nic. :thumbsu:

Only problem is Bailey is another tall and we wont be dropping Oscar. Even though we played at Marvel we again looked too tall. Shuey out Waterman in, taller, one less mid.

Serious question Bond, what happened with Darling? He kicked two goals in the 1st 5 min, then got only 4 more posessions for basically the entire game?

When we dont play our best I often feel we played too tall. Then we make a forced change due to injury, play a smaller more balanced side and look so much better.

Last week v Port I thought they stuffed up going tall againat us, Dixon had a shocker and Port looked too tall and too slow.

Having so many good talls is a double edged sword at times.
 

Obeanie1

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Biggest negative? Should be 4-0 and Top 4 bound. We’re 2-2 and you just know we’ll finish 5th to 8th. What a waste of 3 years and an extremely talented list that would be.

Yet I don’t see anything changing outside of optional retirements.
Geez some quality melts in this thread.

When I first looked at the fixture I was happy to be 3 from 3 after 6 rounds. Preseason the Saints game worried me.

One change you will likely see is Witherden in for Hurn. Thats the future.
 

EagleShore

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Hurn out really hurt.

Backline looked lost every time they got the footy. No direction. Look inboard, see nothing, go wide eyed, look down the line where they know they shouldn't kick it, look inboard again, get panicky, hear the umpire call play on and wet their pants. Rinse and repeat. Bit sad as it shows how much we're reliant on the guidance and influence of a bloke who was tipped to be retiring at the end of the year.

Likewise Shuey with the mids.

Mids just had no synergy. Would win first possession courtesy of Naitanui and then cough it up directly (Kelly you spud) or flick it around a bit THEN waste the footy. There was no real flow around the contest to actually GET OUT of the centre with purpose. Sheed hack kicking it towards the wing is taking years off my life.

Shuey directing the limp mids and Hurn directing the backs would've made a world of difference.
I mentioned this exact point in the gameday thread.

The effect of their on field leadership cannot be understated, especially when the tide turned in that third quarter.

It was especially noticeable with the rebounding/attacking function of the backline - generally Barass and Gov defend well, but they shat the bed with their kicking at times, and Hurn never makes such mistakes.

With the midfield, Shuey is the best tackler and gives a lot of structure to our stoppages. XON should've been selected over Snake, though I doubt it would've changed the result to a W.
 

Carbine Chaos

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Geez some quality melts in this thread.

When I first looked at the fixture I was happy to be 3 from 3 after 6 rounds. Preseason the Saints game worried me.

One change you will likely see is Witherden in for Hurn. Thats the future.
Hurr durr melts hurr durr

We should currently be 4-0. That’s just stating facts. We’re not a good enough side to be dropping games we had under control. We’ve done it twice in four weeks already.
 

BOND 007

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Really looking forward to Williams sharing ruck duties with Nic. :thumbsu:

Only problem is Bailey is another tall and we wont be dropping Oscar. Even though we played at Marvel we again looked too tall. Shuey out Waterman in, taller, one less mid.

Serious question Bond, what happened with Darling? He kicked two goals in the 1st 5 min, then got only 4 more posessions for basically the entire game?

When we dont play our best I often feel we played too tall. Then we make a forced change due to injury, play a smaller more balanced side and look so much better.

Last week v Port I thought they stuffed up going tall againat us, Dixon had a shocker and Port looked too tall and too slow.

Having so many good talls is a double edged sword at times.
When a midfield gets beaten forwards always find the going tough. Not only does the ball rarely get down there but when it does its often slow movement and often haphazard delivery. But he had a bad day at the office also.

Coaches will create a style of play to suit player strength. In WC's case it's built around talls. Often decisions are made with that in mind I.e. Waterman selection
 

Get_The_Gaff

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Unpopular opinion alert .

Although natanui is the GOAT when in comes to centre bounces he is a 200cm witches hat in general play .

Marshall was instrumental in the saints over running us with his link up work and getting into the right position to take marks

This from a bloke with 1/2 a vfl game prep .

Like have an extra mid against a side with 1 mid short ( waterman selection )
 

WCErevival

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Unpopular opinion alert .

Although natanui is the GOAT when in comes to centre bounces he is a 200cm witches hat in general play .

Marshall was instrumental in the saints over running us with his link up work and getting into the right position to take marks

This from a bloke with 1/2 a vfl game prep .

Like have an extra mid against a side with 1 mid short ( waterman selection )
Naitanui has definitely lost a bit. He doesnt run as fast as he used to and even his tackling looks off. A Saints player broke one of his tackles yesterday
 

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