Review Positives and Negatives

Remove this Banner Ad

He'll be an ok player [best 22] after a couple more years development I'm sure but as far as kids go he's nothing special, send him home i've seen enough.
shepherd, Gaff and Sheed looked like they were nothing special either when they were struggling early on. Talent wise Duggan has more talent than them. People forget that he is basically a couple of months older than the 2015 draft crop. Once he fills out he will have a much bigger impact in the middle. Simpson needs to move him into a half back flank/mid role where he played all his footy. He is being wasted at a half forward flank.
 
shepherd, Gaff and Sheed looked like they were nothing special either when they were struggling early on. Talent wise Duggan has more talent than them. People forget that he is basically a couple of months older than the 2015 draft crop. Once he fills out he will have a much bigger impact in the middle. Simpson needs to move him into a half back flank/mid role where he played all his footy. He is being wasted at a half forward flank.

Like I said I don't doubt he'll develop into a best 22 player in time but there is no denying he's still a fair way short of that at the moment. And there is nothing wrong with that as long as match committee recognise he needs to be playing WAFL, like he is now.
Apart from having nice skills there I don't think he's shown anything in particular to suggest he'll grow into anything exceptional so I am comfortable with the idea of losing him if such a trade bought another player to the club who would be an upgrade. Its my fantasy to see him head to Richmond at the end of the year in a trade that nets us Daniel Rioli, would that be terrible?
Why is it everyone assumes that if a player gets traded it automatically means we'd get nothing in return or that the player we got in return would be bad? Duggan is a good trade prospect precisely because he is going to be a good but unlikely great player. He's not big and he's not fast so doesn't offer much besides sound foot skills in a team that going forward has Sheed and Redden looking to play a similar role. Ideally our midfield would have a more dynamic mix of players and would look better if we putting the development time into someone with elite speed over another plodder. [Hence my desire to target Rioli and belief our best draftee from last year was Mutimer]

As to the 3 players you mentioned Shep did look like he was going to be something special thats why he was drafted so early, he's taken time to settle but is special on half back. Sheed proved in his second year [and already in his 2nd game back from LTR] that he is a player so bad comparison, I think Sheeds 2nd year was precisely what everyone assumed we'd see Duggan replicate this year and he's obviously failed to do so. And Gaff, well bad example he actually is nothing special ;)
 

Log in to remove this ad.

It'd be nice to see Jetta get another crack but can't see it happening now. I'd prefer Duggan spends the rest of the season in WAFL where he belongs and then moves back east during trade period but thats just me.
giphy.gif


More like Goose1414. :)
 
Like I said I don't doubt he'll develop into a best 22 player in time but there is no denying he's still a fair way short of that at the moment. And there is nothing wrong with that as long as match committee recognise he needs to be playing WAFL, like he is now.
Apart from having nice skills there I don't think he's shown anything in particular to suggest he'll grow into anything exceptional so I am comfortable with the idea of losing him if such a trade bought another player to the club who would be an upgrade. Its my fantasy to see him head to Richmond at the end of the year in a trade that nets us Daniel Rioli, would that be terrible?
Why is it everyone assumes that if a player gets traded it automatically means we'd get nothing in return or that the player we got in return would be bad? Duggan is a good trade prospect precisely because he is going to be a good but unlikely great player. He's not big and he's not fast so doesn't offer much besides sound foot skills in a team that going forward has Sheed and Redden looking to play a similar role. Ideally our midfield would have a more dynamic mix of players and would look better if we putting the development time into someone with elite speed over another plodder. [Hence my desire to target Rioli and belief our best draftee from last year was Mutimer]

As to the 3 players you mentioned Shep did look like he was going to be something special thats why he was drafted so early, he's taken time to settle but is special on half back. Sheed proved in his second year [and already in his 2nd game back from LTR] that he is a player so bad comparison, I think Sheeds 2nd year was precisely what everyone assumed we'd see Duggan replicate this year and he's obviously failed to do so. And Gaff, well bad example he actually is nothing special ;)

If duggan asked for a trade at the end of the year, he would worths more to us than he is on the trade table at the moment. Duggan in an open market at the moment will be worth a second rounder and we will be the biggest losers out of that. Richmond would be deadset stupid to trade rioli as well. Duggan's footskills aren't the only things that he relies on. His vision and decision making for a kids is exceptional and his ability to get in and underpacks and win the ball for a small kid is also very good. His contested work is really good but at 75kgs he is giving 15-10kgs on most midfielders and thats a reason why he struggles a bit when his chucked on ball. Yet his best footy this season has been when his been in the middle. I think you have underrated his speed as well, he is faster than guys like Sheed, Gaff,hill, shepherd and on par with a cripps and wellingham. Duggan will take time to come on as he in generally small and to play as an inside mid you need size. You forget that he is coming off a PCL injury and was on restricted during the preseason. His first year was exceptional but after his injury he is and will take a while to get back to his best. One thing sheed had over Duggan this year was size and as our midfielder sheed was being played on a wing or in the middle most of the time. This season duggan has been played completely out of position and has spent less time on a wing or midfield than last year. Shep looked so crap in his first 5 seasons till he was finally played in the right position. Gaff has gone from a whipping boy to one of the best wingmen in the comp. Kids need to be backed.

I also don't get the mutimer being the best draft. He has shown a bit but he has shown nothing thats enough to suggest he will make it AFL level. Infact with a good draft next season, he might just be on the cutting block himself.
 
giphy.gif


More like Goose1414. :)

I'd be interested to know where people think Duggan is going to play next year in a side that has a Priddis, Shuey, Gaff still in it, fully fit Redden and Sheed, Masten still hanging around and then pressure coming from 2nd year players below him as well like Cole? Hell even this years draftee's might be pushing for his spot in 2017. And if we trade in a small forward that just pushes Hill and Cripps further into midfield calculations too.

Duggan [currently fit and playing WAFL] is one pre-season away from being selected ahead of all those blokes? I doubt it. As a 25 year old he could have a spot locked down but more likely he'll struggle again next year and then low and behold he'll be out of contract and teams will be chasing him to head home. Why would he stay at that point? 3rd and 4th year players from interstate who are fringe don't really care about the opportunities that may or may not exist inside West Coasts post 2020 best 22. Trade him out, its the smart move I don't care what any of you say.

Paint me a different picture if you think he's a guarantee midfield starter round one 2017, not sure you can.
 
Just watched the game again. Holy shitballs!

I didn't think we were as bad as it seemed at the ground tbh. My inial thoughts after I'd settled down after the game was that we didn't deserve to win that. But on rewatching, we did some good things. Showed a lot of fight and some individuals lifted and stood up at crucial points to keep us in the game.

Hopefully this gives the team a collective dose of confidence to get Fire going.

Positives:
+ Shuey going full elite.
+ Nic Nat going full beast mode in the last quarter.
+ Yeo putting together a good one (after what seems like a long time)
+ Intent in the second half.
+ Sheed getting a bit of touch
+ Tunbridge doing some nice things (despite his attack of the fumbles early)
+ Ball movement at times showed glimpses of 2015 and sliced up the Giants
+ Crap crowd numbers but pleasantly surprised at the number of Eagles supporters.
+ Being wrong on my prediction that we were going to get smacked.

Negs:
- Shithouse crowd. Lacked atmosphere even for such a great 4th quarter.
- Amateur hour at the bar as ^^someeone posted. Cracking bottles to pour beers???? And only after it was ordered. Pretty f***ing good chance the 50 people lining up at the 'Bar' were going to order one of the 3 types of alcohol available, most likely that shitty Carlton Mid garbage. WTF is this? 1995?
- Ball handling. FMD the number of times our players lost the handle on the pill (Priddis I'm looking at you in particular), and so often in uncontested situation too. Put so much pressure on our ball movement.
- Masten was shite today. He just looked lost out there. Even in our defensive structure just woeful positioning. Don't see a lot of games live, but you just see he has woeful awareness when he gets the ball. It's like he is genuinely surprised when he gets tackled when he gets the ball. WTF?
- Hill, Lycett, (I realise he was hampered, but still), Darling, Gaff, Masten probably in our worst today. Too many senior players in there for my liking.
- our handballing is below average, and it is made to look even amatuerish when you watch the way GWS move the ball by hand. Slick as F***.
- Goal kicking. Missed way too many gettable goals in that first half. Particularly when we seem so reliant on JK up forward, we have to nail those chances.
- Mrs cutting the post game celebrations short. Something...something..having to drive three hours to get home..something....




Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
 
Duggan will take time to come on as he in generally small and to play as an inside mid you need size.

Shep looked so crap in his first 5 seasons till he was finally played in the right position.

I also don't get the mutimer being the best draft. He has shown a bit but he has shown nothing thats enough to suggest he will make it AFL level.

Agree with most of what you said about Duggan but especially the bit about how his body is a few years way from allowing him to play the role that best suits his skill set. [Its an opinion i've expressed multiple times in the past myself]

With Shep he was a WA boy so he's fine with waiting it out for 5 years to be best 22 at West Coast. There is nothing wrong with taking that amount of time to come on as a player its just a question of whether you want to wait around interstate for it to happen when there are opportunities to head back home. Duggan is a boy waiting for a mans body and will be tempted to go home long before he grows into a truly useful player. Its only stupid for us to trade him or for Richmond to trade Rioli if its a bad trade. Trading kids before they mature happens and is becoming more common and is just smart list management if there is a net benefit from doing so. Richmond are rebuilding and need a midfield workhorse like Duggan more than they need x-factor cream like Rioli, we are not doing a ground up rebuild and have an oversupply of midfield workhorses so need a Rioli more than a Duggan. Such a trade is win win for both clubs all other things being equal. Not saying its something that would even be on either sides radar just saying the principle is of course sound, especially for us given Rioli is younger than Duggan and Richmond are in a rare phase where basically their entire list is up for grabs for the right trade.

I suspect Mutimer is the fastest player on our list and has a bit of hight and a good left foot so on the basis that elite speed is one of the most valuable weapons a player can possess he's ahead of the majority of our current crop of kids due to our general lack of speed. Not knocking the other kids I'm just more excited to see what Mutimer becomes than the rest of them.
 
Just watched the replay as I missed the game yesterday. Most has been said.

In regards to Hills game I think he was quite unfortunate sometimes that he had really poor delivery. He could have ended up with a couple of goals with a bit of luck.
Tunbridge was a lot better but still didn't do a lot.
The guys seem to be getting their mojo back.
If Tunbridge isn't suspended I would go unchanged this week and probably no more changes for the year. Redden and Jetta are out of form. Duggan is injured and needs to work back through the WAFL which will be too late. Nelson just on the fringe. Butler's inclusion proved the right move.
 
Agree with most of what you said about Duggan but especially the bit about how his body is a few years way from allowing him to play the role that best suits his skill set. [Its an opinion i've expressed multiple times in the past myself]

With Shep he was a WA boy so he's fine with waiting it out for 5 years to be best 22 at West Coast. There is nothing wrong with taking that amount of time to come on as a player its just a question of whether you want to wait around interstate for it to happen when there are opportunities to head back home. Duggan is a boy waiting for a mans body and will be tempted to go home long before he grows into a truly useful player. Its only stupid for us to trade him or for Richmond to trade Rioli if its a bad trade. Trading kids before they mature happens and is becoming more common and is just smart list management if there is a net benefit from doing so. Richmond are rebuilding and need a midfield workhorse like Duggan more than they need x-factor cream like Rioli, we are not doing a ground up rebuild and have an oversupply of midfield workhorses so need a Rioli more than a Duggan. Such a trade is win win for both clubs all other things being equal. Not saying its something that would even be on either sides radar just saying the principle is of course sound, especially for us given Rioli is younger than Duggan and Richmond are in a rare phase where basically their entire list is up for grabs for the right trade.

I suspect Mutimer is the fastest player on our list and has a bit of hight and a good left foot so on the basis that elite speed is one of the most valuable weapons a player can possess he's ahead of the majority of our current crop of kids due to our general lack of speed. Not knocking the other kids I'm just more excited to see what Mutimer becomes than the rest of them.

Even though Liam is underweight he throws him self into contests and wins the footy he also tackles hard (i have seen him thrown ruckmen to the ground with ease and dispose of big guys). Thats a very positive sign as not many kids with a light frame do that. He only needs put on 5-3kgs in the off season to have a much greater impact around the ball( it was the same case with sheed 2 seasons back as well).

Duggans not really a work horse, he has a a very good balanced game. He goes and wins his own ball but inflicts damage on the outside. He is a bit like shuey but not as explosive in that sense. Most good side have very good balanced mids and its an area we lack as shuey and maybe sheed have a balanced game. We have basically no midfield depth and you want to get rid of a talented mid for another cream on top of the cake type. a big reason why duggan was recruited was for his toughness and leadership and we really lack in both area's at the moment. I agree we need a clever small but we can give up less for a guy like liam ryan and even willie rioli.


Mutimer is still behind cole and partington. Cole by a long shot but parto has had more of an impact than him. Pace is not everything. Our issue with pace is not as bad as it used to be a few years back. shuey,wellingham, cripps, shepperd, duggan and jetta all posses leg speed. yes we can add a bit more but we need more inside grunt more than anything. I hope Mutimer has a big season next year and puts pressure on a few but i still think he will be behind cole and partington next year.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Someone said in the other thread that is was only Tunners third full game of AFL. Let that sink in.

Scott Selwood spent 2 whole years fumbling and consistently clangering and managed to stay on the list.
Tunners has earned another year. I was so happy that the MC backed him in against GWS, has real attributes and it's just building touch at AFL level that's required (seen enough clean touches to know he has the ability).
 
The Bridge is showing the attributes that kept him at the club when he really hadn't shown much, and got him games when others looked to be ahead: his pressure is great, he's a good size, and has some fantastic penetration on his kicks. Likes to hit dangerous spots with the ball too rather than handball sideways.
 
Positive:
- Shuey's stood up all season but went to the next level yesterday. Deserves AA.
- NicNat, anyone who doesn't think he's our most important player is an idiot or a bitter Melbourne fan. Makes so much difference to our physical competitiveness around contests.
- Finally we looked up for the fight for the whole game against strong opposition, been waiting all season to see the spirit of 2015.

Negative:
- Too little, too late to make a meaningful difference to our final ladder position I fear.
- Still too much left to too few. Bizarre that we beat a top 4 team away and it was a struggle to fill the votes on that thread, and it sounds like I wasn't alone in that.
- Main Board flogs calling Shuey a cheat. He's earned a rep but cleaned it up a lot and those 2 frees in the last were there every day of the week.
Srs question which is better - that we make the top 4 and get a second chance should we lose - or to finish 5th or 6th which means we get a home final in the 1st week of the finals and hope like mad we win. Also should we be lucky enough to make the top 4 and we lose that first game, would we get a home final the 2nd week of the finals as would be playing the winner of one of the teams placed 5th to 8th.
 
Naitanui may be our best player but our most important he is not, we won every game he was out didn't we? Kennedy is our most important player by a mile, hasn't missed a game in the last 2 years and if he went down with an LTR we'd be toast.

I think of all the sides in the comp we are the most over reliant on 1 player to kick a winning score, and shutting down Kennedy is virtually a guarantee you'll beat us. Our ability to find avenues to goal in the event of the best teams shutting JJK down will decide how far we go in finals, we just don't win games he's well held. The way Darling and Le Cras have been playing it should be a massive concern.
Mind you (don't want it to happen God forbid!!) it could make both Darling and Le Cras pull their finger out and not rely on Kennedy so much.
 
Last edited:
He'll be an ok player [best 22] after a couple more years development I'm sure but as far as kids go he's nothing special, send him home i've seen enough.
Not sure if srs or having a stir - but if srs you are a goose as some players take more time to develop than others. Have seen it happen and if we let him go would more than likely live to regret it. If you get rid of players you need to replace them with somebody better and there's never any guarantee with that.
 
The Bridge is showing the attributes that kept him at the club when he really hadn't shown much, and got him games when others looked to be ahead: his pressure is great, he's a good size, and has some fantastic penetration on his kicks. Likes to hit dangerous spots with the ball too rather than handball sideways.
Who is The Bridge?
 
Srs question which is better - that we make the top 4 and get a second chance should we lose - or to finish 5th or 6th which means we get a home final in the 1st week of the finals and hope like mad we win. Also should we be lucky enough to make the top 4 and we lose that first game, would we get a home final the 2nd week of the finals as would be playing the winner of one of the teams placed 5th to 8th.
Finish 5th or 6th means needing to beat 2 top-4 teams away just to get to the GF. Finish 4th and you only need to beat 1 away (+ possibly 1 at home if you win first week). So 4th is always better.
 
One thing I was especially pleased with was our willingness to take the game on through the corridor. That's the kind of thing we need to keep doing. Too often our ball movement is predictable and ends up with someone like JK in a two-on-one.

When we have guys like Shuey, Hutch, Yeo etc running and carrying it, we put opponents under much more pressure and are also far more likely to hit up a leading target. When we build up the wings, we almost always end up having to go to a contest and put JK under pressure to win overhead marks - which isn't even one of his strengths.

Also, that goal by Sheppard - perfect example of an element of unpredictability which served us really well. We've got to be prepared to throw guys like him who have a bit of pace forward occasionally to mix things up.
 
+i thought tunbridge was poor and fumbly again. maybe i missed something while getting beers. short pass to barrass in the last quarter which resulted in the lobb goal. whether the free kick was there or not, it wasn't smart football.
Pretty sure you've blamed Tunners for something Masten did. It was a poor decision by Masto that could easily have cost us the game if it weren't for Nic's heroics. I thought Tunners played a useful game yesterday and did some good things.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top