Autopsy Positives & Negatives: Review vs Fremantle round 22

[Tugga27]

Don’t forget his claim that coaches can be sacked with years and millions left on their deals.

He's in the big river in Egypt.
In denial.

 

[Guest1]

Coaches are sacked all the time yes, 9 out of 10 end their tenure sacked.

Any coaches sacked with 3 years left on a contract by any chance?

Buddy was a free agent, not even remotely relevant to coaches getting sacked. Quite the opposite actually considering it was a huge contract instead.

It's simply not going to happen so move on.

We will just agree to disagree. I am entitled to post a comment about it being possible to move Simmo on just as much as anybody is entitled to post a comment about it being impossible to sack Simmo.

 

[bzparkes]

We will just agree to disagree. I am entitled to post a comment about it being possible to move Simmo on just as much as anybody is entitled to post a comment about it being impossible to sack Simmo.

Of course you are but this conversation is very boring and repeatedly saying "sack Simmo" is contributing nothing to the thread.

Suggest everyone move on from this garbage conversation because it's a complete and utter circle-jerk clogging up the threads.

Let's just agree that it's not going to happen this year and, if on the incredibly tiny chance that it did happen, congratulations, you've won Bigfooty.

Next year will be a completely different story if we push for a flag and it all falls in a heap but for now, we should collectively talk about something else rather than this boring s**t.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

We will just agree to disagree. I am entitled to post a comment about it being possible to move Simmo on just as much as anybody is entitled to post a comment about it being impossible to sack Simmo.

I am entitled to post a comment about West Coast being the only AFL team based in Western Australia just as much as anybody is entitled to post about a comment about Western Australia being a two-team state.

And if people point out i’m clearly and obviously wrong, and point to the ample evidence demonstrating there is in fact a second team in Western Australia, I’m entitled to accuse them of bullying me for having a different opinion from the popular decision.

And I’m also entitled to log out of my account and log into a second account to back myself up.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

Enough of this football stuff, what about He-Man?

 

[Karim Abdul Yeo]

Please report anything untoward and I will deal with it. Thanks

I'm good thanks, I'm a big boy and can handle it myself. cheers.

 

[Bender_]

No one has a a problem with differing opinions and discussing them. When you're asked to justify your opinions and predictions and reply with "Well it's just the vibe" then you tend to create a problem. It's pretty simple.

 

[Karim Abdul Yeo]

Nothing wrong with having different opinions and engaging in a robust debate.

Plenty wrong however with making spurious claims, refusing to provide any evidence to back them up and them claim people are bullying you because you ignore their requests for proof and decide to attack them with insults instead.

Do people even know how to talk to each other or debate anymore?

when did I say I was being bullied?? I ignore the specific questions because those posters are trolls and regardless of what I'd say, they already made up their mind and they are not interested in what I 'd say, they just wanna keep trolling. since you asked politely, I will respond back. Plenty of coaches have been sacked while on contract. I am pretty sure Sheedy was let go in the middle to end of the season, same as Pagan and Chris Connoly at Freo. Nathan Buckly was let go this year and Bolton at Carlton was all contracted if I am not mistaken. I am pretty sure if memory serves me right, even Leigh Matthews was forced to resign in 07 or 08.
Adam Simpson's case is even worst because the Eagles at least on paper and due to their recent flag with their age list( game experience) and acquisition of Kelly were easily in consideration for top 4 and flag contention. So based on those examples and looking at it contextually, yes, I do think Simmo is a very lucky man to keeps his job. To further add to his poor performance, post 18 he has played 3 finals with a record 1-2, Buckley won more finals than simmo since 18 and still lost his job. In addition, it makes me laugh when some posters think terminating a contract is a so-called financial suicide without having any insight into the terms and conditions of the contract or financial accounting and how a balance sheet works. Tearing up a contract and paying penalties is a drop in the ocean for the Eagles or the majority of the AFL clubs, to be honest. Hopefully, Justin Langer will pull the trigger here as a board member. Big changes are needed, I am not sure adding an assistant will fix the problem.

Now, of course, some troll is going to go and find one or two coaches who didn't get sacked or met that criteria that I mentioned to prove their point like Bevo in 17. Hardwick we all know was very close to getting the call. Finding these examples does not discredit my statement that Simmo is a very lucky man to keep his job. They have their examples, I have mine. You'd be the judge. We *ing lost to a wooden spooner mate at home and lost to a Freo B side at home and we still get these trolls who also defended Simmo last year and blamed it on the hub and the year before on injuries. They will always find a way.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Now, of course, some troll is going to go and find one or two coaches who didn't get sacked or met that criteria that I mentioned to prove their point like Bevo in 17.

One or two? We collectively put up SIX examples of coaches of well-regarded sides that went 2-6 and kept their jobs.

In response to your claim that “no other coach would survive that”.

Which you said shortly after admonishing someone else for recklessly talking in absolutes.

 

[Feeling Groovy]

It’s not even off season yet…

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Plenty of coaches have been sacked while on contract. I am pretty sure Sheedy was let go in the middle to end of the season, same as Pagan and Chris Connoly at Freo. Nathan Buckly was let go this year and Bolton at Carlton was all contracted if I am not mistaken. I am pretty sure if memory serves me right, even Leigh Matthews was forced to resign in 07 or 08.

Sheedy - was out of contract at the end of 2007, Essendon announced it wouldn’t be renewed.

Pagan - had a year to run on his contract, was sacked and paid out in full for that year.

Connolly - sacked in the final year of his contract.

Buckley - quit during the final year of his contract

Lethal - quit with a year to run on his contract, not sure whether he got paid out or not.

That’s five examples with a total of two years max being paid out to those five coaches. And you want West Coast to pay Simpson for the next three years.

 

[The_Gambler]

Of course you are but this conversation is very boring and repeatedly saying "sack Simmo" is contributing nothing to the thread.

Suggest everyone move on from this garbage conversation because it's a complete and utter circle-jerk clogging up the threads.

Let's just agree that it's not going to happen this year and, if on the incredibly tiny chance that it did happen, congratulations, you've won Bigfooty.

Next year will be a completely different story if we push for a flag and it all falls in a heap but for now, we should collectively talk about something else rather than this boring sh*t.

this is classic dunning-Kruger

 

[bzparkes]

when did I say I was being bullied?? I ignore the specific questions because those posters are trolls and regardless of what I'd say, they already made up their mind and they are not interested in what I 'd say, they just wanna keep trolling. since you asked politely, I will respond back. Plenty of coaches have been sacked while on contract. I am pretty sure Sheedy was let go in the middle to end of the season, same as Pagan and Chris Connoly at Freo. Nathan Buckly was let go this year and Bolton at Carlton was all contracted if I am not mistaken. I am pretty sure if memory serves me right, even Leigh Matthews was forced to resign in 07 or 08.
Adam Simpson's case is even worst because the Eagles at least on paper and due to their recent flag with their age list( game experience) and acquisition of Kelly were easily in consideration for top 4 and flag contention. So based on those examples and looking at it contextually, yes, I do think Simmo is a very lucky man to keeps his job. To further add to his poor performance, post 18 he has played 3 finals with a record 1-2, Buckley won more finals than simmo since 18 and still lost his job. In addition, it makes me laugh when some posters think terminating a contract is a so-called financial suicide without having any insight into the terms and conditions of the contract or financial accounting and how a balance sheet works. Tearing up a contract and paying penalties is a drop in the ocean for the Eagles or the majority of the AFL clubs, to be honest. Hopefully, Justin Langer will pull the trigger here as a board member. Big changes are needed, I am not sure adding an assistant will fix the problem.

Now, of course, some troll is going to go and find one or two coaches who didn't get sacked or met that criteria that I mentioned to prove their point like Bevo in 17. Hardwick we all know was very close to getting the call. Finding these examples does not discredit my statement that Simmo is a very lucky man to keep his job. They have their examples, I have mine. You'd be the judge. We f*n lost to a wooden spooner mate at home and lost to a Freo B side at home and we still get these trolls who also defended Simmo last year and blamed it on the hub and the year before on injuries. They will always find a way.

You need to understand one thing which you've ignored the whole time:

Simpson, unlike those example coaches of yours, has three years left on his contract. There is no coach I can think of who has been sacked with three years left to run on his contract.

Your whole point seems to revolve around the fact that clubs aren't afraid to move on coaches in the last year of their tenure, which absolutely nobody is attempting to refute. You seem to refuse to acknowledge however, that Simpson has those three years left in his contract. This is a completely different situation from those coaches who you used as an example.

This is the stickler that certain posters are wanting you to address. Three years left to run in a contract is a very important 'criteria' because, like it or not, West Coast is not going to sacrifice 5 million dollars to move Simpson on when they only re-signed him at the end of last season.

Now, you make the point about Simmo being lucky as Buckley got moved on from being in a similar situation. I think everyone here is under no illusion that WCE winning the premiership was an incredible sliding doors moment for the fortune of both clubs and coaches. You also need to acknowledge the fact that Buckley had been a senior coach for a few seasons longer than Simpson and his record was quite dire, outside of making the one grand final in '18. In fact, one could easily argue, especially Collingwood supporters, that he got way too much rope and that the only reason he left was because Eddie fell on his sword.

Regardless, proof is there that clubs simply don't move on premiership coaches after three years with a record such as Simpson's because both Beveridge and Clarkson had worse records than Simpson after '08 and '16, so this kind of disproves your point that clubs freely move on underperforming coaches and are, in fact, prepared to back them in. Hardwick was a prime example of this. It doesn't always work out but unless your club name is Carlton, history has shown that unless a coaches' position becomes untenable, such as Pyke at Adelaide and Blight at St Kilda, coaches generally stick around for quite some time to be given the opportunity to produce results.

As an aside, if you want your points to be taken somewhat seriously, I'd advise against calling posters 'trolls' simply because they found evidence which, in their mind, disproves your rationale around coaches being sacked. It straight up indicates that you don't have time for anyone else's opinion which, on evidence, is true of your posting history so far. People simply won't take anything you say seriously if you label them 'trolls' just because they can point to examples which poke holes in your argument.

 

[Karim Abdul Yeo]

You need to understand one thing which you've ignored the whole time:

Simpson, unlike those example coaches of yours, has three years left on his contract. There is no coach I can think of who has been sacked with three years left to run on his contract.

Your whole point seems to revolve around the fact that clubs aren't afraid to move on coaches in the last year of their tenure, which absolutely nobody is attempting to refute. You seem to refuse to acknowledge however, that Simpson has those three years left in his contract. This is a completely different situation from those coaches who you used as an example.

This is the stickler that certain posters are wanting you to address. Three years left to run in a contract is a very important 'criteria' because, like it or not, West Coast is not going to sacrifice 5 million dollars to move Simpson on when they only re-signed him at the end of last season.

Now, you make the point about Simmo being lucky as Buckley got moved on from being in a similar situation. I think everyone here is under no illusion that WCE winning the premiership was an incredible sliding doors moment for the fortune of both clubs and coaches. You also need to acknowledge the fact that Buckley had been a senior coach for a few seasons longer than Simpson and his record was quite dire, outside of making the one grand final in '18. In fact, one could easily argue, especially Collingwood supporters, that he got way too much rope and that the only reason he left was because Eddie fell on his sword.

Regardless, proof is there that clubs simply don't move on premiership coaches after three years with a record such as Simpson's because both Beveridge and Clarkson had worse records than Simpson after '08 and '16, so this kind of disproves your point that clubs freely move on underperforming coaches and are, in fact, prepared to back them in. Hardwick was a prime example of this. It doesn't always work out but unless your club name is Carlton, history has shown that unless a coaches' position becomes untenable, such as Pyke at Adelaide and Blight at St Kilda, coaches generally stick around for quite some time to be given the opportunity to produce results.

As an aside, if you want your points to be taken somewhat seriously, I'd advise against calling posters 'trolls' simply because they found evidence which, in their mind, disproves your rationale around coaches being sacked. It straight up indicates that you don't have time for anyone else's opinion which, on evidence, is true of your posting history so far. People simply won't take anything you say seriously if you label them 'trolls' just because they can point to examples which poke holes in your argument.

Thank you for your detailed response. Firstly, for the record, everyone has holes in their arguments. Hence it is called an argument. No one has full insight on any of these topics. We are simply making an informed opinion based on our own gatherings in relation to the relevant subject. With that being said, some posters are strategically only looking to find holes in your argument to discredit your entire argument all the time as they find joy in that which is a sad thing to see. I find these individuals to be extremely annoying as they often don't even bother talking about the topic and attack the person instead. For that reason, I call them trolls and potentially worst names if I am allowed in this forum because they are not here to have a civil discussion and are just here to press buttons and attack anyone who does not agree with them. They remind me of the particular political party in terms of behavior and attitude. Calling posters "troll" has merit and history, I don't just wake up one day and start calling people trolls because they don't agree with my opinion, there is a trend and process which leads to that approach. On many occasions, they have taken a paragraph or line of my entire post out of context and in isolation to push their own agenda and make themselves look good which is quite sad, to be honest. respectfully speaking, I will continue to handle those posters the way I see fit as they dully deserve nothing other than the treatment they are receiving.

In terms of contract length, once again, you have failed to see my point which is fine. Having a lengthy period left on your contract has no bearing on decision-making as you have tried to argue. Just like any other argument, the fact that we are not privy to fine details of the contract agreement or KPI's in performance for Simmo where a termination clause could be triggered due to poor performance, you could not refute the fact that it is well and truly possible for Simmo to be gone without 5 million dollars financial ramification. all you know is contract length, that does not mean anything to be quite honest with you. Unless you are his lawyer and have full access to his entire terms and conditions, then you cannot rule it out. I am pretty sure Jade Rawlings was sacked by Kangas with 2 years left on his contract.

Finally, this forum for me is not a popularity contest as long as it is civil I am fine with it. You may think I don't have time for other's opinions, I would disagree as I have responded back to you and have no issue with your post even though I do not agree with some of the comments. I look at it through a slightly different lens than you. If I call you troll, then I'm at fault.

Have a nice day and I will see you next season.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Thank you for your detailed response. Firstly, for the record, everyone has holes in their arguments. Hence it is called an argument. No one has full insight on any of these topics. We are simply making an informed opinion based on our own gatherings in relation to the relevant subject. With that being said, some posters are strategically only looking to find holes in your argument to discredit your entire argument all the time as they find joy in that which is a sad thing to see. I find these individuals to be extremely annoying as they often don't even bother talking about the topic and attack the person instead. For that reason, I call them trolls and potentially worst names if I am allowed in this forum because they are not here to have a civil discussion and are just here to press buttons and attack anyone who does not agree with them. They remind me of the particular political party in terms of behavior and attitude. Calling posters "troll" has merit and history, I don't just wake up one day and start calling people trolls because they don't agree with my opinion, there is a trend and process which leads to that approach. On many occasions, they have taken a paragraph or line of my entire post out of context and in isolation to push their own agenda and make themselves look good which is quite sad, to be honest. respectfully speaking, I will continue to handle those posters the way I see fit as they dully deserve nothing other than the treatment they are receiving.

In terms of contract length, once again, you have failed to see my point which is fine. Having a lengthy period left on your contract has no bearing on decision-making as you have tried to argue. Just like any other argument, the fact that we are not privy to fine details of the contract agreement or KPI's in performance for Simmo where a termination clause could be triggered due to poor performance, you could not refute the fact that it is well and truly possible for Simmo to be gone without 5 million dollars financial ramification. all you know is contract length, that does not mean anything to be quite honest with you. Unless you are his lawyer and have full access to his entire terms and conditions, then you cannot rule it out. I am pretty sure Jade Rawlings was sacked by Kangas with 2 years left on his contract.

Finally, this forum for me is not a popularity contest as long as it is civil I am fine with it. You may think I don't have time for other's opinions, I would disagree as I have responded back to you and have no issue with your post even though I do not agree with some of the comments. I look at it through a slightly different lens than you. If I call you troll, then I'm at fault.

Have a nice day and I will see you next season.

Out of interest, what chance would you say there is that Adam Simpson doesn’t coach us next year? You’re insisting it’s in the realms of possibility, because of some clause that might possibly be in his contract or whatever. But what do you actually think the chances are of that?

 

[06Premiers]

The biggest negative from the game vs Freo was reading the last few pages.

 

[Guest1]

The biggest negative from the game vs Freo was reading the last few pages.

Some of your fellow supporters are concerned enough about the Eagles expected performance over the next few years to spend their time posting and sharing their thoughts. Other supporters have different opinions. Debate ensues.

 

[Guest1]

this is classic dunning-Kruger

The in-group effect is pretty strong here too. You can tell by who 'likes' each other's posts. All the time...

 

[06Premiers]

Some of your fellow supporters are concerned enough about the Eagles expected performance over the next few years to spend their time posting and sharing their thoughts. Other supporters have different opinions. Debate ensues.

And that relates to this specific thread how?

 

[Guest1]

And that relates to this specific thread how?

We were hoping for a better effort given that a place in finals were up for grabs. Instead, we lost to the depleted Freo team....

 

[dajesmac]

respectfully speaking, calling 2018 an outlier is not devaluing it. It's just looking at it objectively. Do you get the point?? or you still having difficulty differentiating between critique vs devalue??

I like how you prefaced that with “respectfully” and then got to the third sentence before your anger spilled out.

I get your point - I suppose my comment shouldn’t be directed at you. But I have seen it around these parts semi regularly following a loss.

 

[Truckosaurus]

I never thought I'd say this but bring on the relentless optimism of the draft and preseason!

 

[Karim Abdul Yeo]

I like how you prefaced that with “respectfully” and then got to the third sentence before your anger spilled out.

I get your point - I suppose my comment shouldn’t be directed at you. But I have seen it around these parts semi regularly following a loss.

very good point. I am calm now. cheers. went too far re reading it now.

 

[The Passenger]

Google confirmation bias while you're at it.

I don't need to google things to know what they are, kthxbai.

 

[The_Gambler]

The in-group effect is pretty strong here too. You can tell by who 'likes' each other's posts. All the time...

the circle jerk is very obvious