Positives.. Thats as bad as we will get...

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kronic

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#27
Positives:
- Backline: McGuane was very impressive as was Thursfield and Moore. They seem to be improving each week. Managed to keep Barry Hall quiet.
- Martin & Nason: 2 AFL games in, these kids will be very impressive you can tell.
- Cotch: Stand out in the midfield, crashing packs and getting the ball
- Vickery: Later half of the game, Vickery was oustanding in the ruck, never die attitude.

Negatives:
- Hardened Bodies: Our players just bounced off the Bulldogs like jelly.
- Turnovers: When we eventually or did get the ball out of the backline we turned it over to often.
 

Crumden

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#28
Positives:
- Backline: McGuane was very impressive as was Thursfield and Moore. They seem to be improving each week. Managed to keep Barry Hall quiet.
- Martin & Nason: 2 AFL games in, these kids will be very impressive you can tell.
- Cotch: Stand out in the midfield, crashing packs and getting the ball
- Vickery: Later half of the game, Vickery was oustanding in the ruck, never die attitude.

Negatives:
- Hardened Bodies: Our players just bounced off the Bulldogs like jelly.
- Turnovers: When we eventually or did get the ball out of the backline we turned it over to often.
Agree with most of that (although not so impressed with Moore's game). Martin took another step up in only his second game. And Vickery showed some good signs. Will ttake a while, but its worth gettings some games into him. Post had the fumbles today but will be better for his first hit-out at this level for the year two. We need to perservere with those two big blokes even though they probably aren't ready yet.

Was also happy with the endeavour for three quarters, though not so much the fourth.
 

gaelictiogar

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#30
One of the floggings against top 4 material is in the past. That is all that can be said.

Its a long haul people. Richmond is a poor team littered with poor players who lack the physical strength, desire and skills to put it up to real teams. The new coach knows this and needs time to work on it. He has in effect asked for a year to try to get some kind of team together, put in some firm foundation. We are going to be basement this year perhaps picking up a win or two late on versus uninterested opposition. The real point is giving the man time to try to build some structure at a hopelessly outgunned club.
 

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#31
Good thread so far, no BS. It's kind of reassuring...

There is never anyone moving up the field like there are for the dogs, Swans, Cats.....we rarely have an option to hit up as the mids are not working hard enough to present. Need to improve in this area to help the ball carrier out.
I might get crucified for this (excuse the Easter pun) but I reckon Rance might be effective up the ground a bit. He will present all day and his marking ability is underrated. He's obviously not a long term solution (I hope Griffiths and Astbury are being groomed as our 2 hardest working players) but to sure us up so we aren't chasing tails the whole game, he might work in patches. I didn't like Post's game tonight tbh.

Re. Deledio - I have high hopes he will turn into a top 20 player in the league. My only gripe with 'Lids in his career so far is that he didn't work hard enough and perhaps was a little soft. Tonight I thought he tried his backside off and imo Hardwick is starting to have a really positive effect on him. Cotchin was really impressive today, and Martin showed some really good signs.

The only thing that really got me in a spin today was our lack of intensity straight after half time. I don't think there's an excuse for this. Right after the break, and at this level, you have control over intensity, and we lacked it big time, and accordingly got crunched.

I thought we defended Hall exceptionally well. We were really disciplined getting back and Moore, McGuane and Thursfield gave each other a chop out really well. We just need to find a bloke capable of defending a Hahn type size/player (I guess this is where I hoped Rance would be good). I'm not sold on Farmer yet, but have only seen him play twice so will reserve an opinion.

Our rucks need some attending too, I just don't know that Vickery can turn into a number 1 option. We don't need a Cox, Sandilands or Nicky Nat, we just need someone to give our mids first option, and cause a contest. That's my take anyway, I'm not saying we'll win 3 flags in the next 10 years, but I don't think we're a total disaster like the average neutral would think.
 

SKOULIKI

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#32
I agree, I couldn't care less about the margin you can see little positives here and there. Still think we are far too short forward and Newman has got to be moved into the middle or forward.
Spot on! Newman should be playing in the middle with the young kids.

I can't wait till we get foley back!

Connors was great in the back line and Martin & Cotchin played 100% better than last week, more positive than last week.
 
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#33
I agree, I couldn't care less about the margin you can see little positives here and there. Still think we are far too short forward and Newman has got to be moved into the middle or forward.
Also why can't Newman be a more inspiring captain. We should give the captancy to someone like Deledio. Putting leadership in his hands might make him a more consistant player. And after Richo's retirement he is the only big time player we have got.
 

the ranger

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#34
I liked the games from Thursfield, Connors, Cotchin, Martin, Morton and Nason. Newman, Tambling, Moore and McGuane all improved on last week but still need to do better. Post looks a likely type and should stay in the team. Deledio still coasting.

I still think Simmonds needs to be dropped and Nahas, Hislop and King should probably go with him. Just checked stats and Hislop and King gave away 9 free kicks between them (no frees for). That's nuts.
 

Rocco_S

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#35
Also why can't Newman be a more inspiring captain. We should give the captancy to someone like Deledio. Putting leadership in his hands might make him a more consistant player. And after Richo's retirement he is the only big time player we have got.
Wow, I haven't heard a bad thing about Newman's leadership, and imo Deledio has a fair way to go to earn the captaincy.
 

TOOs_Finest

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#36
Also why can't Newman be a more inspiring captain. We should give the captancy to someone like Deledio. Putting leadership in his hands might make him a more consistant player. And after Richo's retirement he is the only big time player we have got.
I understand the concept, but you don't give someone the captaincy in the hope that they will earn it. You give it to them because they earned it.

I think the most glaring sign tonight of where we are at was the amount of chest marks and handball receives we dropped/fumbled. We don't do that because we can't catch, we're just simply young and 'under the pump'. Every possession to some of these guys must seem like possibly their last. They will get over that given time and confidence shown to them by the coach. Uncharacteristic mistakes made tonight more of a blow out than it really was.
 

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Rayzorwire

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#37
My positive for this week was the performance of our young midfield.

First off we won the clearances against the Dogs a side that are one of the better teams at clearing the ball. 19 clearances from Deledio(4) Martin(8) Cotchin(3) & Thomson(4) while Jackson had (0). Add to that Cotchin Deledio Jackson(22 disposals each) Martin (21) Thomson(18) & Tambling(16) had a combined 121 touches. It might not mean much to some but this was only their second game as a group and as the game wore on I could see them starting to click. They would run for each other, block for each other and look for each other. The other thing that pleased me about this was that as a group they averaged 78.8% efficiency, not sure why people complain say we turn the ball over too much in the midfield. Another positive to come out of this is that Deledio is the only one with 100 games while Tambling and Jackson have played 70+ each. The rest of that group are still kids and yet they took it up to the more experienced and harder bodies of the Dogs, if they can do it again next week against the Swans at the SCG then regardless of the score I'll be smiling after the game for it will be a clear indication that were on the right track.
It was good that we got our hands to the ball RT, Martin was especially pleasing, but our system (I'm guessing we do have a system) after that was generally poor - more often than not we coughed it up either through a turnover or physical pressure.

Jackson was very disciplined about playing his role today, but I'm not sure anyone could explain to me what it was and why. Many stoppages he was on his own, in no position to get the clearance, and just completely bypassed by the play whether we won the ball on his side of the pack (i.e a designated receiver) or they did (i.e a designated tackler). It was one of the more bizarre things I've seen on a football field...in a zone of his own.

We blew Cotchin up on Cooney...would much rather have seen him play a full game across half forward where we continually had to hold the ball up and use it well with the flooding 'no forward line' style of game we played, but time and time again we broke down because it ended up in the hands of someone who lacked the composure/skill to hold it up, move it on longer effectively, or run with it.

Personally, I don't see any worthwhile gain in using guys like Hislop, Nason, King and Nahas as key playmakers in attacking plays where you're about to go inside-50 but need to make a good decision and execute well, but those were the blokes we called upon to do that for us over and over again. Much prefer to see Cotchin or someone who's a good ball user playing at least one of those playmaking HFF roles.

Thomson was anonymous again despite you trying to talk him up for some reason RT, he just had four more nothing possessions to nowhere than last week - that's not an improvement. He had so little impact I doubt most casual observers would have known he even played.

The whole midfield's way down on possessions, I assume it's deliberate because they're all following strict plans like Jackson?
 

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#38
My positive for this week was the performance of our young midfield.

First off we won the clearances against the Dogs a side that are one of the better teams at clearing the ball. 19 clearances from Deledio(4) Martin(8) Cotchin(3) & Thomson(4) while Jackson had (0). Add to that Cotchin Deledio Jackson(22 disposals each) Martin (21) Thomson(18) & Tambling(16) had a combined 121 touches. It might not mean much to some but this was only their second game as a group and as the game wore on I could see them starting to click. They would run for each other, block for each other and look for each other. The other thing that pleased me about this was that as a group they averaged 78.8% efficiency, not sure why people complain say we turn the ball over too much in the midfield. Another positive to come out of this is that Deledio is the only one with 100 games while Tambling and Jackson have played 70+ each. The rest of that group are still kids and yet they took it up to the more experienced and harder bodies of the Dogs, if they can do it again next week against the Swans at the SCG then regardless of the score I'll be smiling after the game for it will be a clear indication that were on the right track.
that's right, was quite pleased with the boys in the midfield. surprised with the stats RE clearance, but pleasantly surprised. on thomson, i think he's one of those players that simply just doesn't stand out unless u look out for him. hence alot of the time people can think he's doing nothing when he's actually in and under all the time.
 

nut

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#39
It was good that we got our hands to the ball RT, Martin was especially pleasing, but our system (I'm guessing we do have a system) after that was generally poor - more often than not we coughed it up either through a turnover or physical pressure.

Jackson was very disciplined about playing his role today, but I'm not sure anyone could explain to me what it was and why. Many stoppages he was on his own, in no position to get the clearance, and just completely bypassed by the play whether we won the ball on his side of the pack (i.e a designated receiver) or they did (i.e a designated tackler). It was one of the more bizarre things I've seen on a football field...in a zone of his own.

We blew Cotchin up on Cooney...would much rather have seen him play a full game across half forward where we continually had to hold the ball up and use it well with the flooding 'no forward line' style of game we played, but time and time again we broke down because it ended up in the hands of someone who lacked the composure/skill to hold it up, move it on longer effectively, or run with it.

Personally, I don't see any worthwhile gain in using guys like Hislop, Nason, King and Nahas as key playmakers in attacking plays where you're about to go inside-50 but need to make a good decision and execute well, but those were the blokes we called upon to do that for us over and over again. Much prefer to see Cotchin or someone who's a good ball user playing at least one of those playmaking HFF roles.

Thomson was anonymous again despite you trying to talk him up for some reason RT, he just had four more nothing possessions to nowhere than last week - that's not an improvement. He had so little impact I doubt most casual observers would have known he even played.

The whole midfield's way down on possessions, I assume it's deliberate because they're all following strict plans like Jackson?
I agree with this post.... but I get the feeling that we are moving towards a style that will break the lines. There are some encouraging signs....hard to pin point them at the moment. Maybe it's the risky disposals that if they do come off then we are away..... at the moment they are turn overs..


I remember how much the Hawks were bagged in Clarksons first season.....
 

dean33

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#40
It was good that we got our hands to the ball RT, Martin was especially pleasing, but our system (I'm guessing we do have a system) after that was generally poor - more often than not we coughed it up either through a turnover or physical pressure.

Jackson was very disciplined about playing his role today, but I'm not sure anyone could explain to me what it was and why. Many stoppages he was on his own, in no position to get the clearance, and just completely bypassed by the play whether we won the ball on his side of the pack (i.e a designated receiver) or they did (i.e a designated tackler). It was one of the more bizarre things I've seen on a football field...in a zone of his own.

We blew Cotchin up on Cooney...would much rather have seen him play a full game across half forward where we continually had to hold the ball up and use it well with the flooding 'no forward line' style of game we played, but time and time again we broke down because it ended up in the hands of someone who lacked the composure/skill to hold it up, move it on longer effectively, or run with it.

Personally, I don't see any worthwhile gain in using guys like Hislop, Nason, King and Nahas as key playmakers in attacking plays where you're about to go inside-50 but need to make a good decision and execute well, but those were the blokes we called upon to do that for us over and over again. Much prefer to see Cotchin or someone who's a good ball user playing at least one of those playmaking HFF roles.

Thomson was anonymous again despite you trying to talk him up for some reason RT, he just had four more nothing possessions to nowhere than last week - that's not an improvement. He had so little impact I doubt most casual observers would have known he even played.

The whole midfield's way down on possessions, I assume it's deliberate because they're all following strict plans like Jackson?
I agree with you regarding no use having guys like king and hislop as key playmakers in attacking plays, however nason is a good user of the ball from what i have seen in the first 2 games and nahas although sloppy yesterday is generally pretty good.

Cotch although a star and future champion of our club is not the best disposal and I'm not sure whether that is due to injuries and him lacking penetration however often his kicks fall short. I'm sure he will get better at that though.
 

Bojangles17

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#41
In summary it was the best games we'd seen from McGaune and Thursty for 2 yrs and even Moore got a bit of it, if he had of clunked that mark, perhaps we would be talking of him too...Cotch and Martin are progressing toward that 50possie mark...had 44 between them yesterday at >81% efficiency

I'm looking forward to our front half getting a makeover and trying something new in the ruck....playing Polly as a follower would be a decent move , he can take a grab and would be a giant leap forward on the 5 marks Simmo and Vick have taken bw them this year
 

Fish 20

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#42
and 90% of those clerances ended up where?
To a Bulldogs player.!

Or were you watching a different game?
I actually heard a good observation from "Joey" who rang into SEN. We won the clearances but our half forward line was Nahas, Nason & King. He said "it resembled something more like the jockeys room at Moonee Valley". Nothing against those guys but we need talls there.. Polak?
 

nut

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#45
In summary it was the best games we'd seen from McGaune and Thursty for 2 yrs and even Moore got a bit of it, if he had of clunked that mark, perhaps we would be talking of him too...Cotch and Martin are progressing toward that 50possie mark...had 44 between them yesterday at >81% efficiency

I'm looking forward to our front half getting a makeover and trying something new in the ruck....playing Polly as a follower would be a decent move , he can take a grab and would be a giant leap forward on the 5 marks Simmo and Vick have taken bw them this year
if Polak is fit enough he would be ok in the ruck.

I think it's a dileberate ploy by DH to play a smallish side. Makes everyone work harder to try to find a forward option. Remember we have had 17 years of bombing it to richo... we need to be smarter with our forward moves and more precise, I see it as a positive that we are trying to increase our skill level, which we all have complained about for years..... Also it's fast traking Reiwoldts development. I just wish he could kick for goal.
 
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#48
Didn't see the game (possibly a good thing) but did listen to it on the radio and don't know why I bothered with ABC commentators like Peter Schwab and Drew Morphett. Schwab needs reminding that he was a terrible coach and his teams performed no better than the "rabble" he kept referring to in front of him. Morphett should go and commentate on Fantasy Football games and leave the real thing to those who care, because I lost count of the number of times he referred to his Dream Team.

Having got that off my chest...there seemed to be many positives. McGuane, Moore and Thursfield have not played as well collectively since 2008. Big tick there. Cotchin and Martin added to Deledio starting to gel in the mid-field.

Newman's leadership and all round game being back to where it needs to be on a consistent basis.

Again we ran out of legs in the second half but that is purely a result of inexperience and youth v maturity and experience. We could fix that in a few weeks by returning Tuck, Polo, White, Cousins and Foley to the mix but not sure that's just looking for a quick fix. Polo and Foley should definitely come in asap.

Finally we were crying out for the 23yo+ group to show some leadership and it seems they were listening - Newman, Moore, McGuane, Thursfield and Deledio all in this group. Remember this group have been conditioned to having the likes of Brown, Bowden, Cousins, Johnson and Richo lead the way. There was always going to be a period of adjustment until they took the bit between the teeth and led and I am encouraged that in R2 against a top 4 team they have taken a big step forward. Hopefully it continues into R3,4 etc
 

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#49
People keep refering to Clarkson anf hawthorn and omparing us to them, thre are two huge differences , actually there are more i.e. Franklin and rioli.


Who is our Franklin? Who is our Rioli? and Who is our Hodge?

I have also said that if we are trying to replicate the Hwthorn game plan i believe that it is a flawed policy as when we finally perfect it in three , four , five years the game would have evolved past it.

Be ready for more dissapointment tiger heads.

We have a huge problem kicking avwinning score Morton is the only one who reguraly kicks goals, Riewoldt is as bad as the great man converting although i doubt he will kick 792 goals.

We seem to pick forwards and the try and turn them into defenders, I guess that goes back to trying to turn a 100 goal FF into a ruckman (disco) and us older ones know how that turned out!!!!!!!

I have spoken at length about his kicking flaws and been flamed.

How Polo and Tuck dont get a game before Hislop, King, Farmer etc is beyond me . any one care to illuminate on this?

we kept simmonds to protect the ruck kids, Why isnt tuck used to protect the midfield kids?
 

always right

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#50
Finally we were crying out for the 23yo+ group to show some leadership and it seems they were listening - Newman, Moore, McGuane, Thursfield and Deledio all in this group.
Newman, Thursfield and McGuane were excellent yesterday under heavy fire. Moore was on Murphy before being taken off him and Deledio had very little influence on the game. He was disappointing.

Liked the look of Nason who will be good when he develops a mature body.
 
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