Possible Best 22

[AndSmithMustScore]

Nonsense. Just because something happened once doesn't mean it will happen again. Deledio got through his debut season just fine, and I don't see why the hell Gibbs will be any different. It'd be just plain cowardice not to play Gibbs for any reason other than poor form.

Cowardice?

It's called managing ya list

Play your senior players before your juniors, epsecially in the early round when there's extra heat in the contrests.

 

[gandaal]

Cowardice?

It's called managing ya list

Play your senior players before your juniors, epsecially in the early round when there's extra heat in the contrests.

Nah its cowardice. That idea of list management went out of the game ten years ago. You're afraid the kids will get hurt so you chicken out and play then in the twos. Gibbs is way way too good to be stuck playing in the twos.

Besides he's a senior player already.

 

[BlueFeaver]

Nah its cowardice. That idea of list management went out of the game ten years ago. You're afraid the kids will get hurt so you chicken out and play then in the twos. Gibbs is way way too good to be stuck playing in the twos.

Besides he's a senior player already.

You really like to rock the boat!

Gibbs will play 12-15 games, he may be able to handle more but the club will be conservative. Delludio did play a full season and then followed the following year up with OP and various other injuries.

As for Saddington, your determination of playing Lance back is very reactionary. Lance has been played down back to sure up a fragile defence, if we are to progress we need to look at how to beat teams rather than stop them from winning. The time has come for us to take our chances and become the hunters rather than the prey. Saddington will provide a mature head with Thornton down back, sure enough Saddington won't be part of our next Premiership side, but neither will Lance.

 

[gandaal]

You really like to rock the boat!

Gibbs will play 12-15 games, he may be able to handle more but the club will be conservative. Delludio did play a full season and then followed the following year up with OP and various other injuries.

As for Saddington, your determination of playing Lance back is very reactionary. Lance has been played down back to sure up a fragile defence, if we are to progress we need to look at how to beat teams rather than stop them from winning. The time has come for us to take our chances and become the hunters rather than the prey. Saddington will provide a mature head with Thornton down back, sure enough Saddington won't be part of our next Premiership side, but neither will Lance.

Gibbs will play every single game he's available to play. They might rest him for a week, like Collingwood did Thomas, late in the season but otherwise he'll be there every week (form permitting). You can take that one to the bank.

I'm fine with playing Lance in the forward line and putting Waite at CHB. Don't see how that forces us to play a hack like Saddington. The sole goal of this year for Carlton, other than a bit of improvement, is to get games into the kids. Playing Saddington defeats that purpose.

 

[Melbdave81]

Gibbs will play every single game he's available to play. They might rest him for a week, like Collingwood did Thomas, late in the season but otherwise he'll be there every week (form permitting). You can take that one to the bank.

I'm fine with playing Lance in the forward line and putting Waite at CHB. Don't see how that forces us to play a hack like Saddington. The sole goal of this year for Carlton, other than a bit of improvement, is to get games into the kids. Playing Saddington defeats that purpose.

What if he is in the best 22? He is clearly training well and at his best, is a quality player, I think he would be a great inclusion in the side if he is fully fit.

 

[gandaal]

What if he is in the best 22? He is clearly training well and at his best, is a quality player, I think he would be a great inclusion in the side if he is fully fit.

1. He's not a quality player
2. He can't hit targets by foot. I'll accept that in a teenager because they have time to work on it but I'm not going to accept it from a 26 year old.
3. He's lost most of his pace.
4. We have about 5-6 KP defenders who should get a game ahead of him because they're better players plain and simple.
5. Playing players like Saddington is the reason why we're still at the bottom of the ladder after all this time. When will people learn?

 

[Melbdave81]

1. He's not a quality player
2. He can't hit targets by foot. I'll accept that in a teenager because they have time to work on it but I'm not going to accept it from a 26 year old.
3. He's lost most of his pace.
4. We have about 5-6 KP defenders who should get a game ahead of him because they're better players plain and simple.
5. Playing players like Saddington is the reason why we're still at the bottom of the ladder after all this time. When will people learn?

Well i have to disagree with you there gandaal. I would say that Tbird and Carlos are better KP defenders than him but other than that id cant see who is actually better than Saddo. Lance certainly isnt and Hartlett has no played and Bower is nowhere near ready to play KP week in week out.

Have you been to training gandaal, Saddo is moving beautifully and hitting plenty of targets.

The reason we havent been winning any games is because we've had no quality mid range players in terms of age and experience, Saddo solves both of those issues. If fit, he should and will play, IMO

 

[av76]

Saddington is not a hack. There have been several Sydney supporters who have said different in useful summaries on this board. Even looking at his stats reveals he is not hack. He got 142 games with Sydney. This means he played nearly every game after been drafted at number 11. Not many players on our list with those credentials at the age of 24. His also skillful, which is sorely needed down back. There is no reason if his knee is right why he can't become a very good player for us.

 

[cfc05]

As i was saying before, everyone in the starting 22 should be made to earn there spot - not given it for age, experience, reputation.

If Round one was tomorrow i strongly believe Saddington and Gibbs would both play. Saddington has recovered from a knee injury that severly restricted him the last few years and is moving great. If he continues to show good signs he no doubts deserves a shot round one.

AndSmithMustScore, when would you plan on playing Gibbs then?

Rd 3 Saturday, Apr 14 (Day) Essendon MCG Home 2:10 pm - Best on first few games in the Bullants, would you play him here? Or would you protect from whats obviously going to be a spiteful, hard game?

Rd 4 Sunday, Apr 22 (Day) West Coast Subiaco Away 2:40 pm - Best on again in the bullants last week, send him over to Perth?

Rd 5 Saturday, Apr 28 (Night) Brisbane Lions Telstra Dome Home 7:10 pm

Rd 6 Friday, May 04 (Night) St. Kilda Telstra Dome Away 7:40 pm

Rd 7 Saturday, May 12 (Day) Collingwood MCG Away 2:10 pm

Rounds 5, 6 and 7 are not going to be much easier. I agree we need to rest him at some stage, but if he is right to go round one... let him dominate then!

Remember he played against men all last year in the SANFL and played bloody well the games i saw!!

He will play round one if fit!

 

[BlueBelle]

Much needed?

You mean that Whitnall, Thornton, Lappin/Scotland don't provide sufficient experience? Sorry bluegal but the idea of Saddington's experience being much needed is garbage. The only, and I mean the only, time we'd ever need Saddington is if two of Whitnall, Thornton and Setanta manage to get themselves injuried at the same time and even then I'd be looking at Hartlett.

Whitnall has played in the backline because of that exact reason.... Lack of experience. If Saddington was to get a regular game then Lance can play up forward again.

 

[Melbdave81]

Whitnall has played in the backline because of that exact reason.... Lack of experience. If Saddington was to get a regular game then Lance can play up forward again.

Great call bluegal, and Saddo is a better defender

 

[cfc05]

And is training the house down at the moment (which he really did need to do) but give credit where credits due! See how he goes on Lucas or Lloyd, hopefully he gets a shot on one of them.

 

[HBF]

I really think with the development of Setanta, the move of Waite, and the further development of T-Bird, Hartlett and Bower, and the improved fitness of Saddington, Carlton could finally have the luxury of playing Whitnall back in the forward line.

My only concern is that if Whitnall plays forward, we also have to find spots for Fisher and Kennedy, as Fev will take the FF position, and I really think playing 4 talls in our F50 is one too many.

 

[cfc05]

I really think with the development of Setanta, the move of Waite, and the further development of T-Bird, Hartlett and Bower, and the improved fitness of Saddington, Carlton could finally have the luxury of playing Whitnall back in the forward line.

My only concern is that if Whitnall plays forward, we also have to find spots for Fisher and Kennedy, as Fev will take the FF position, and I really think playing 4 talls in our F50 is one too many.

HBF - competition for spots!!! We have needed this for years, no free rides!! Players not getting games anymore based on reputation, age or experience.
Players having to perform well consistently to keep/find a spot in the team.
Seem to be building a little bit of depth aswell.

 

[Bluebear]

1. He's not a quality player
2. He can't hit targets by foot. I'll accept that in a teenager because they have time to work on it but I'm not going to accept it from a 26 year old.
3. He's lost most of his pace.
4. We have about 5-6 KP defenders who should get a game ahead of him because they're better players plain and simple.
5. Playing players like Saddington is the reason why we're still at the bottom of the ladder after all this time. When will people learn?

Wow, when you put numbers next to it, it looks really impressive. I might try bullets instead: (oooh and a colon )

• Saddo isn't a hack, anyone without bias (which you clearly have) can see this........to make it as an emergency in the swans GF team 2 yrs back after what he'd been through - guts.
• This second point about hitting targets has been answered, and you just lost a third of the list.
• His pace........yep, definately should keep Lance down there because SADDO is too slow . Seemed to keep up with Fev O.K., looks to be moving well since his knee op (not that you'd care)
• Lets count the KP's who would get a game ahead of him:
  1. Thornton
  2. O'Hailpin
  3. Bower
  4. Whitnall (cncession - I think he's a forward but you're struggling for numbers)
  5. Harts - you're love child who has done ZERO other than keep the physio's busy - yet to prove he is an AFL footballer. Must earn his place, not be gift wrapped for him.
  6. Waite? - geez mate, struggling for numbers here now.
• I didn't realise Saddo was implicated in the salary cap cheating at Carlton..........you will need to explain yourself out of this.

On second thought, don't bother..................its pretty obvious that you're not going to give this guy a break.

 

[Where's Mokbel?]

May i remind you of the nicley balanced back six i originally suggested:

Thornton O’Hailpin Walker

Whitnall Waite Scotland

Note Whitnall is back there - he needs to be down back against stronger sides with good tall forwards. I used Sydney as an example previously. You may recall that we have won the wooden spoon the last two seasons. Against sides with weaker/shorter forward lines, then we can play Whitnall up forward (or even as a loose man in defence to float and take marks as is often his role). But our defence is crucial and must be very strong if we are going to advance up the ladder.

Note that i did not include Saddington. Gandaal i agree - i will be very disappointed (but not surprised) if our senile coach Pagan plays him. Those of you who claim that they were at the intra club and think that he played well must have been at a different game. He didn't beat anyone. I'm not going to bother explaining this either. The people claiming he 'beat' Fevola remind me of the people who sit behind you and ruin the game for you with their idiotic comments. I haven't said he's not a good player, he's just not in our best 22 in my opinion, and certainly doesn't get in ahead of Thornton, O'Hailpin, Whitnall and Waite, who are his competition.

 

[Bluebear]

May i remind you of the nicley balanced back six i originally suggested:

Thornton O’Hailpin Walker

Whitnall Waite Scotland

Note Whitnall is back there - he needs to be down back against stronger sides with good tall forwards. I used Sydney as an example previously. You may recall that we have won the wooden spoon the last two seasons. Against sides with weaker/shorter forward lines, then we can play Whitnall up forward (or even as a loose man in defence to float and take marks as is often his role). But our defence is crucial and must be very strong if we are going to advance up the ladder.

Note that i did not include Saddington. Gandaal i agree - i will be very disappointed (but not surprised) if our senile coach Pagan plays him. Those of you who claim that they were at the intra club and think that he played well must have been at a different game. He didn't beat anyone. I'm not going to bother explaining this either. The people claiming he 'beat' Fevola remind me of the people who sit behind you and ruin the game for you with their idiotic comments. I haven't said he's not a good player, he's just not in our best 22 in my opinion, and certainly doesn't get in ahead of Thornton, O'Hailpin, Whitnall and Waite, who are his competition.

Interesting that you would use Sydney as an example of why we need Lance down back.
They SMASHED US around the stopages, but also in our F50. Lance should play forward. Saddo allows us to do this. Plus his man won't run off him as easily as Red.
Clearly you are as biased as Gandaal on this. Looked at his age and put a line through him.
If he plays better than those fighting for the spot, he should get it. Period. No free rides here just because you might be the next big thing.

 

[gandaal]

Wow, when you put numbers next to it, it looks really impressive. I might try bullets instead: (oooh and a colon )

• Saddo isn't a hack, anyone without bias (which you clearly have) can see this........to make it as an emergency in the swans GF team 2 yrs back after what he'd been through - guts.

• 
  
  Who is this guy?
  
  
  
  And he actually played in a premiership side.
  
  

  [*]This second point about hitting targets has been answered, and you just lost a third of the list.
  [*]His pace........yep, definately should keep Lance down there because SADDO is too slow . Seemed to keep up with Fev O.K., looks to be moving well since his knee op (not that you'd care)
  
  [*]Lets count the KP's who would get a game ahead of him:

  1. Thornton
  2. O'Hailpin
  3. Bower
  4. Whitnall (cncession - I think he's a forward but you're struggling for numbers)
  5. Harts - you're love child who has done ZERO other than keep the physio's busy - yet to prove he is an AFL footballer. Must earn his place, not be gift wrapped for him.
  6. Waite? - geez mate, struggling for numbers here now.

  [*]I didn't realise Saddo was implicated in the salary cap cheating at Carlton..........you will need to explain yourself out of this.

On second thought, don't bother..................its pretty obvious that you're not going to give this guy a break.

How many Key Position players do you want? You only need two or three depending on the team you play. I'd love to play a fourth, and because Thornton can play on smalls if needed and is an excellent rebounder the opportunity is there to give a kid like Bower an extended run in defense playing on the third or fourth forward. Giving Saddington that position is utterly utterly pointless looking long term (which is the only way we should be looking this year).

We need to be playing the kids, giving them as much experience at the highest level as possible because they're the ones who are going to win us our next premiership, not people like Saddington and Bannister who have proved that they just aren't up to it.

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
George Santayana, 1905

 

[SurreyBlue]

May i remind you of the nicley balanced back six i originally suggested:

Thornton O’Hailpin Walker

Whitnall Waite Scotland
.

If we line up like that in the back half this year, then Pagan might as well pack his bags!

 

[gandaal]

If we line up like that in the back half this year, then Pagan might as well pack his bags!

Why?

 

[Bluebear]

Maybe we could swap Fev and Carlos, and have our entire forward line playing in defence, while perfectly good defenders cool their heels in the stands.

Yep, you've won me over.
Fisher and Kennedy to tie for the Coleman this year.

 

[gandaal]

Maybe we could swap Fev and Carlos, and have our entire forward line playing in defence, while perfectly good defenders cool their heels in the stands.

Yep, you've won me over.
Fisher and Kennedy to tie for the Coleman this year.

Fev and Kennedy playing as our two key forwards with Fisher as a backup tall forward would be a fantastic forward unit if Kennedy can do what he was recruited to do (what he did in the practice match).

Forwards need space and your insane if you think a Fevola, Whitnall, Waite, Kennedy, Fisher, Betts forward line has even the slightest chance of functioning.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Maybe we could swap Fev and Carlos, and have our entire forward line playing in defence, while perfectly good defenders cool their heels in the stands.

Yep, you've won me over.
Fisher and Kennedy to tie for the Coleman this year.

Exactly.
Going by that defense, we will have Fevola, Ackland/Cloke, Fisher & Kennedy as our main kp forwards for 2007! Only 1 of the above is a multiple goal kicker week in week out, that stat alone should set alarm bells off for our coaching staff. Opposition teams will know what to do to stop us and will have little concerns about achieving this while we have Waite/Whitnall defending!

 

[SurreyBlue]

Fev and Kennedy playing as our two key forwards with Fisher as a backup tall forward would be a fantastic forward unit if Kennedy can do what he was recruited to do (doing what he did in the practice match).

Forwards need space and your insane if you think a Fevola, Whitnall, Waite, Kennedy, Fisher, Betts forward line has even the slightest chance of functioning.

Fevola, Whitnall, Fisher, Waite, Houlihan and Betts however does, unless ofcourse you do a 2005/6 with your forward line and leave Fev one out again.

 

[Melbdave81]

Gandaal, you can not seriously believe that Lance is a good KPD. He plays off his man, is too slow and costs the team goals on a weekly basis when other defenders have to play on 2 guys instead of one. He is a forward, plain and simple. Take his games against Riewoldt, Rocca and Trent Croad of prime examples of why he cannot play in defense. He got slaughtered by all of them and looked completely out of his depth. To top it off in the second game against the Hawks he got taken to the cleaners by a no namer.

He is a forward, after he went forward against Hawthorn at the Dome he nearly won us the game. It is people who think like you that will stop the club moving forward. You have to play blokes in their best positions.

The question that needs to be asked is will we win a flag with Lance at CHB? The answer is no.

Will we win a flag with Saddo at CHB? Again, no but having him there teaching the young kids how to play in defense is key to us getting back into contention, and it allows our best CHF to play at CHF.