Possible Future AFL Expansion Discussion

[madmug]

Are you suggesting that vic clubs should travel more and non vic clubs have more than 11 home games?

If they get WA3 up then they will get more games in their own time zone. That'll help, I guess?

 

[telsor]

If they get WA3 up then they will get more games in their own time zone. That'll help, I guess?

Why? With a fair draw, they shouldn't play the local team any more often than they do any other team.

I suppose you could argue there would be more games held locally, but does a WCE fan really care about where Freo is playing each week?

 

[madmug]

Why? With a fair draw, they shouldn't play the local team any more often than they do any other team.

I suppose you could argue there would be more games held locally, but does a WCE fan really care about where Freo is playing each week?

Well you could argue the point but it would be a fact that the 3 clubs would get more games in Perth. One more anyway.

 

[Rob]

Just a point - no-one's actually pushing for WA3 at the moment. Not seriously anyway. The only thing i've ever heard of it outside of suggestions on bigfooty was a few years ago when it was reported that East Perth and West Perth were floating their 'Joondalup Royal Falcons' idea. AFAIK nothing more than talk has happened on that. You'd think if they were even remotely serious they'd at least have a website and other minor promotions happening to try and gauge the level (if any) of support. Google it and all that comes up is this article:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/7017628/west-perth-sound-out-royals-about-being-third-afl-club/

Some interesting quotes in there though.

It's a bit of a shame, because a public debate on the topic could actually be constructive.

 

[madmug]

Just a point - no-one's actually pushing for WA3 at the moment. Not seriously anyway. The only thing i've ever heard of it outside of suggestions on bigfooty was a few years ago when it was reported that East Perth and West Perth were floating their 'Joondalup Royal Falcons' idea. AFAIK nothing more than talk has happened on that. You'd think if they were even remotely serious they'd at least have a website and other minor promotions happening to try and gauge the level (if any) of support. Google it and all that comes up is this article:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/7017628/west-perth-sound-out-royals-about-being-third-afl-club/

Some interesting quotes in there though.

It's a bit of a shame, because a public debate on the topic could actually be constructive.

Yes well seeing some peoples assessments based on gross population increases, it is of interest to note the increasingly sceuwed population per team that may occur by 2030 when AD mentions a 3rd WA team being possible. In 2030 some figures show Perth at 2.5million people. Melbourne at 5.5million. I dont see how they figure that but on these numbers it will be Perth at 1.25million people per team, Melbourne at 620k per team.
Perth is growing at a faster rate than Melbourne so we look like seeing greater disequalisation by then.
Geelong will be nearer to 300k by then.

 

[Rob]

Yes well seeing some peoples assessments based on gross population increases, it is of interest to note the increasingly sceuwed population per team that may occur by 2030 when AD mentions a 3rd WA team being possible. In 2030 some figures show Perth at 2.5million people. Melbourne at 5.5million. I dont see how they figure that but on these numbers it will be Perth at 1.25million people per team, Melbourne at 620k per team.
Perth is growing at a faster rate than Melbourne so we look like seeing greater disequalisation by then.
Geelong will be nearer to 300k by then.

Actually, according to the ABS it's likely Perth will be over 3 million by 2030, overtaking Brisbane in 2028.

 

[madmug]

Actually, according to the ABS it's likely Perth will be over 3 million by 2030, overtaking Brisbane in 2028.

Yes, it is an educated guess after all. The point being that Perth looks like having twice as many people per team as Melbourne! I know gross population growth guestimates arent the whole story, but that is starting to look ridiculously lop sided. Its not as if it is Sydney where the two clubs their have a lot of soccah & thugby opposition.

Even if they get a 3rd team Perth will still have a huge imbalance in population per team as against Melbourne. At least a 3rd team will help.

 

[Rob]

Yes, it is an educated guess after all. The point being that Perth looks like having twice as many people per team as Melbourne! I know gross population growth guestimates arent the whole story, but that is starting to look ridiculously lop sided. Its not as if it is Sydney where the two clubs their have a lot of soccah & thugby opposition.

Even if they get a 3rd team Perth will still have a huge imbalance in population per team as against Melbourne. At least a 3rd team will help.

I agree completely, but I guess my point was that we are a long long way from that happening. It's not even being discussed over here, let alone any serious proposals being put on the table.

 

[madmug]

I agree completely, but I guess my point was that we are a long long way from that happening. It's not even being discussed over here, let alone any serious proposals being put on the table.

I guess it really should come from the AFL itself. After all its why they call the VFL the AFL, isnt it? surely the management people should consider the effects of the number of teams in each market place. Or do such things only apply outside of Victoria?

 

[telsor]

So, when talking about Perth, population numbers and growth are relevant factors.

Strange how it wasn't when talking about Tas.

 

[madmug]

So, when talking about Perth, population numbers and growth are relevant factors.

Strange how it wasn't when talking about Tas.

Who said it wasnt?

One state, one team, two cheap venues is a dam site better situation than some current clubs could count on. Funny how thats not a relevant factor but 100+ years of almost continual failure in the VFL/AFL keeps a team in it!!

 

[telsor]

Who said it wasnt?

One state, one team, two cheap venues is a dam site better situation than some current clubs could count on. Funny how thats not a relevant factor but 100+ years of almost continual failure in the VFL/AFL keeps a team in it!!

As I've asked before, how would replacing a Vic team with a Tas team add anything to the competition as a whole?

 

[madmug]

As I've asked before, how would replacing a Vic team with a Tas team add anything to the competition as a whole?

You certainly do like a circular argument. I mention the huge & growing dicrepacy between the population per club in WA & 9 in Melbourne.

Then you comment from left field with an untruth ( no one said the Tasmanian population wasnt a factor, indeed I said Tassie wouldnt get a gig except the fact we have an 18 team comp & the fact we still cant get a go but we do get 2 FIFO clubs is a bloody disgrace) then away you go again about what more does Tassie bring etc etc.

Maybe it brings some of its own 150 years of passion & history to the national game.

Just watch the cricket.

 

[telsor]

You certainly do like a circular argument. I mention the huge & growing dicrepacy between the population per club in WA & 9 in Melbourne.

Then you comment from left field with an untruth ( no one said the Tasmanian population wasnt a factor, indeed I said Tassie wouldnt get a gig except the fact we have an 18 team comp & the fact we still cant get a go but we do get 2 FIFO clubs is a bloody disgrace) then away you go again about what more does Tassie bring etc etc.

Maybe it brings some of its own 150 years of passion & history to the national game.

Just watch the cricket.

Just checked...when raising population figures, I was told it was "meaningless and irrelevant".

I've agreed before that more teams are needed in WA. How they forge a seperate support base is problematic, but that doesn't change the requirement.

I've also said Tas might warrant a club through expansion...Where you and I lock horns is your insistance that Vic teams die to make a licence available.

But hey, maybe you're right...small, broke and shrinking...maybe we should apply the logic more broadly and revoke Tassies 'licence' to statehood.

 

[madmug]

Just checked...when raising population figures, I was told it was "meaningless and irrelevant".

I've agreed before that more teams are needed in WA. How they forge a seperate support base is problematic, but that doesn't change the requirement.

I've also said Tas might warrant a club through expansion...Where you and I lock horns is your insistance that Vic teams die to make a licence available.

But hey, maybe you're right...small, broke and shrinking...maybe we should apply the logic more broadly and revoke Tassies 'licence' to statehood.

Have NEVER said a Victorian team should die.

 

[telsor]

Have NEVER said a Victorian team should die.

No longer be part of the AFL then.

 

[Kwality]

Just checked...when raising population figures, I was told it was "meaningless and irrelevant".

I've agreed before that more teams are needed in WA. How they forge a seperate support base is problematic, but that doesn't change the requirement.

I've also said Tas might warrant a club through expansion...Where you and I lock horns is your insistance that Vic teams die to make a licence available.

But hey, maybe you're right...small, broke and shrinking...maybe we should apply the logic more broadly and revoke Tassies 'licence' to statehood.

To hell with the consequences?

More teams sure beats addressing an uncomfortable reality.

 

[telsor]

What? do u mean any Vic teams who leave the AFL? If so then yes, they can join the VFL. No loss to their community. I think even Fitzroy play in the amateurs & given the right support could perhaps get into the VFL again.

Well, if playing at a lower level is no loss to the community, then what's the big deal about Tas playing at the highest level?

 

[The_Wookie]

What? do u mean any Vic teams who leave the AFL? If so then yes, they can join the VFL. No loss to their community. I think even Fitzroy play in the amateurs & given the right support could perhaps get into the VFL again.

Hmm I do seem to recall as Tasmanian side in the VFL that didnt survive not that long ago. That probably played a small part in there being no AFL side.

 

[madmug]

Well, if playing at a lower level is no loss to the community, then what's the big deal about Tas playing at the highest level?

I think its a slight difference when a city has 9 teams fighting in the same confined market area sees one or two dropping down a level compared to Tasmania having either no team or its first team ever. Thats a lot of difference. But dont let me upset the VFL boys club.

You just keep fighting each other for some market share.

 

[madmug]

Hmm I do seem to recall as Tasmanian side in the VFL that didnt survive not that long ago. That probably played a small part in there being no AFL side.

Geez I thought you would know all this.

The Tassie VFL team was started by AFLTas in 2002 after they destroyed the 1st state league. It attracted very healthy crowds compared to VFL games in Melbourne, including over 10k for semi finals at one stage. I was a member & enjoyed going to games & seeing a 1/2 decent crowd or two.

Then AFLTas amalgamated with North Melbourne for some reason known only to them. The locals lost interest in this hybrid monstrosity. AFLTas then closed it down & dragged local clubs back to a messy state league system of sorts that they have going now.

What that has to do with having an AFL team, I dont know. Maybe it shows the folly of trusting AFLclubs to care about Tasmanian football. The alignment wth North Melbourne killed off the Tassie VFL Team. Another good AFLTas decision that was.

Anyway, It certainly hasnt stopped the 2 carpetbaggers we have FIFO now!!

 

[The_Wookie]

Geez I thought you would know all this.

The Tassie VFL team was started by AFLTas in 2002 after they destroyed the 1st state league. It attracted very healthy crowds compared to VFL games in Melbourne, including over 10k for semi finals at one stage. I was a member & enjoyed going to games & seeing a 1/2 decent crowd or two.

Then AFLTas amalgamated with North Melbourne for some reason known only to them. The locals lost interest in this hybrid monstrosity. AFLTas then closed it down & dragged local clubs back to a messy state league system of sorts that they have going now.

What that has to do with having an AFL team, I dont know. Maybe it shows the folly of trusting AFLclubs to care about Tasmanian football. The alignment wth North Melbourne killed off the Tassie VFL Team. Another good AFLTas decision that was.

Anyway, It certainly hasnt stopped the 2 carpetbaggers we have FIFO now!!

Im well aware of what occurred. Im suggesting that its still part of the reason that theres no Tasmania club today. along with a whole host of other reasons.

 

[madmug]

Im well aware of what occurred. Im suggesting that its still part of the reason that theres no Tasmania club today. along with a whole host of other reasons.

Sorry but thats simplistic Crap.

The performance or otherwise of a VFL team is of no consequence. The GWS & GC shows us that, they got AFL teams NOT because they were good at 2nd level football. Quite the opposite infact.

If anything the Standalone Tassie devils was a great success from a crowd point of view. One semi final at Bootpark had 11k. The VFL GF didnt get anymore than that. I think the powers that be got way ahead of themselves & wanted some AFL listed players to try to win the competition. Thats where it went off the rails. AFLTas then started to reduce northern games. It became less of a Tas team & more like some made up show.














People here arent that silly (not quite anyway) . They do know a farce when they see one. They really did like to see local guys play in it. Seeing guys like Ben Beams & Trent Bartlett come back here & wave the Tassie footy flag againt the heathen hords


People here DO love the game. They didnt like being sold a crock of shyte. The team was turned into a circus. Thanks AFLTas. Another great stuff up.

 

[The_Wookie]

Ive split this topic so it doesnt derail the other thread.

 

[telsor]

I think its a slight difference when a city has 9 teams fighting in the same confined market area sees one or two dropping down a level compared to Tasmania having either no team or its first team ever. Thats a lot of difference. But dont let me upset the VFL boys club.

You just keep fighting each other for some market share.

Better to fight for a share of a market than not to have a market to fight for.

As I've said before, 'success' for Tas means you'll be about as big as the 'losers' in the fight for Melbourne market share, but unlike them, you'd have no possibility to grow from there.