Review Post Game Day Thread Collingwood vs Brisbane - Thanks for De Goey, Bears

[MarkT2]

Went at 71% DE last season (just for comparison to someone around the same mark, Steele went at 72% in 2017). He's not as bad as what you think.

Regardless, Adams is there predominantly as an inside mid to extract the pill rather than be heavily reliant on his field kicking. He's invaluable when he's at his best. Shouldn't be played in the backline though.

I agree he is an inside mid (and not much else). Problem is we don't need an inside mid that can't kick well enough. DE is a BS stat. It doesn't measure dinky little kicks and handballs in perspective and it doesn't measure a pass that stops a players momentum as a turnover when the recipient turns it over under pressure.

I'd rather have De Goey in the guts with Pendlebury, Sidebottom & Treloar when Elliot & Fasolo come back into the forward line. m Stevenson will ultimately play in the middle as well.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

I agree he is an inside mid (and not much else). Problem is we don't need an inside mid that can't kick well enough. DE is a BS stat. It doesn't measure dinky little kicks and handballs in perspective and it doesn't measure a pass that stops a players momentum as a turnover when the recipient turns it over under pressure.

I'd rather have De Goey in the guts with Pendlebury, Sidebottom & Treloar when Elliot & Fasolo come back into the forward line. m Stevenson will ultimately play in the middle as well.

DE is a shocker, one of the worst stats going around.

The bolded is spot on.

 

[Maggie5]

Getting really annoyed over something as trivial as this discussion suggests otherwise...

Surely you jest re the bolded?? Knightmare aside there has been no bigger champion of building chemistry within the list than me over the past few years. That said our poor performance had little to do with chemistry between role players.

I’ll do some actual analysis which is pretty sparse on here these days.

In the 4th quartet 9 points up with 6 minutes on the clock a 7 gamer is allowed to run clean through a stoppage gather and pump the ball I50 to a one on one contest. No pressure from behind, no pressure at the coal face and no extra number sagging back to relieve in the marking contest because the pressure up the field was abysmal. The average punter would have screamed at Shaz for losing the one on one, but that contest was lost as soon as the winger or forward lost touch on Rayner* and gave him a 5 metre leg rope. What exactly does chemistry or short breaks have to do with that when the likes of WHE, Mayne, Blair and Phillips had an abundance of space when we were in possession. Put simply our mids and forwards didn’t run the other way when it mattered most.

Murray receives frontal contact immediately after taking possession on the wing deep in the second quarter and instinctively tries to rocket out a miracle handball to a 1 v 3 out the back of the contest. Instead of absorbing the tackle and creating a stoppage we have another turnover goal.

Murray again time on in the second loses contact with his opponent and goes goalside the ball spills to the front where a player in three metres of space snaffles it and snaps the easiest of goals because there was no body pressure.

Appleby flies back into a contest in the third doesn’t impact it enough and goes to ground. The ball gets to the back where Brisbane have an outnumber and a goal is kicked by Taylor.

None of those three were caused by injuries to role players interrupting chemistry it was poor skill execution and bad defensive work. I could literally pick the eyes out of the defensive work in that contest because at least 50% of their goals were caused by either inept pressuring, skill execution, too many deep I50 entries which placed our defenders under a lot of pressure at ground level or poor setup at stoppages. The one saving grace was the victory and having had time to reflect I think the coaching group only dropped the ball at selection and by not respecting Zorko. It almost cost us, but for once I’m on the players as culprits bandwagon.

*Raynor looks a beauty if that last quarter was any indication



Not this s**t again. Look up the word trend in the dictionary and then we can maybe discuss this further, but with the time I put into formulating posts I’m not going back over ground I covered last night.

You seem to have moved a long way from my original post.

Sadly I don’t have the same recall of specific plays/players as am yet to watch replay. All I can recall broadly is that they played well and above their previous output and that we certainly made it easier with poor skills, positioning and plays.

Not sure much is to be gained from continuing as my original post asked about using Richmond as a comparison who have had a more settled team in terms of both players and few injuries.

 

[JB1975]

I’ll do some actual analysis which is pretty sparse on here these days.

Collingwood's form has surprised quite a few people around here, and my own view is that there's been some pretty good analysis to understand that form. Your view of the contribution of others seems a bit harsh.

 

[Apex36]

I would like to apologise to Grundy.

I said he had a s**t game........he had the highest tackles of any player on the ground 11. It shows he worked hard around the ball.

I hope he is right to go against the Cats he will be a huge advantage for us.

I’ll take a 39 hit out, 11 tackle, 4 clearance game as a ‘down game’ every day of the week! Phenomenal that Grundy is so good now that those numbers are considered below average for him!

 

[MarkT2]

I’ll take a 39 hit out, 11 tackle, 4 clearance game as a ‘down game’ every day of the week! Phenomenal that Grundy is so good now that those numbers are considered below average for him!

I don't rate his tap work highly as a rule and on Sunday it was not very effective. He has improved every part of his game annually except his directed tap work. There may be an element of midfield co ordination and it may also be in part due to where they are told to start/stand but he doesn't hit it to the advantage of a moving target like Natanui or Ryder. 11 tackles is bloody good though and combined with his regular clearances it shows he is not just a tall athlete but a real footballer who is tall. It isn't mechanical it is instictive. The first footballer we have drated as a ruckman ever unless you count Fraser (Monkhorst was pre draft u 19s).

I'd love to get a high calibre ruck coach to work with Grundy and the midfield just on clearance plans.

 

[Swooper18]

In a fluctuating contest at the Gabba, Collingwood prevailed in a high-scoring cliffhanger by 7 points against the Brisbane Lions. The Magpies were able to respond with timely goals when they were required, as Brisbane kept breathing down Collingwood’s neck with an onslaught of goals they were able to score themselves.

Scott Pendlebury (20 disposals, 6 score involvements, 4 tackles, 4 clearances, 3 Inside 50’s & 1 goal) was Collingwood’s best player at Half Time, before injuring his ankle in the second term. Pendlebury went forward during the 3rd quarter without being able to contribute. Medical staff ruled him out for the crucial final term, placing a stern test at the feet of his teammates.

Jordan De Goey (20 disposals, 7 marks, 5 marks Inside 50, 12 score involvements, 4 Inside 50’s & 5 goals) was a focal point all night, and was the most influential player in a Collingwood guernsey. Josh Thomas (22 disposals, 7 marks, 9 score involvements, 8 Inside 50’s & 3 goals) had a barnstorming second term in which he kicked all of his goals. Jaidyn Stephenson (21 disposals, 6 marks, 8 score involvements & 2 goals) had a sublime second half, including his 2nd goal that iced the game for the Magpies.

Tom Phillips (28 disposals, 10 marks, 10 score involvements, 612 metres gained, 4 clearances, 6 Inside 50’s & 1 goal) was exceptionally good again. He blended extremely well with Adam Treloar (26 disposals, 14 contested possessions, 7 tackles, 6 score involvements, 9 clearances, 7 Inside 50’s & 1 goal) and Steele Sidebottom (34 disposals, 7 score involvements, 6 marks, 6 clearances & 4 Inside 50’s), who were able to lead with their actions without Pendlebury in the second half. Brodie Grundy (16 disposals, 10 contested possessions, 39 hitouts, 11 tackles & 4 clearances) was highly commendable at contests all night.

Sam Murray (24 disposals, 10 marks, 8 intercept possessions, 5 Rebound 50’s & 6 score involvements) had a mixed game with his ball use, but fought hard to win the ball back in spades. Jeremy Howe (17 disposals @ 82%, 7 marks, 7 intercept possessions & 1 goal) was very good with his ball use, and his reliable hands at marking contests. Jack Crisp (19 disposals, 6 intercept possessions, 5 marks, 4 tackles & 3 Inside 50’s) linked up all night and pumped the ball forward a few times.

For the Lions, Dayne Zorko (34 disposals, 16 contested possessions, 10 score involvements, 697 metres gained, 7 marks, 10 tackles, 10 Inside 50’s & 4 goals) almost won the game for Brisbane by himself, which was remarkable given that he had been in a form slump. Dayne Beams (31 disposals, 10 contested possessions, 5 marks, 5 tackles, 5 score involvements, 5 clearances, 4 Inside 50’s & 2 goals) played a brilliant captain’s game in a losing side, while Stefan Martin (28 disposals @ 71%, 12 contested possessions, 24 hitouts, 11 score involvements, 8 marks, 7 clearances & 4 Inside 50’s) broke even with Brodie Grundy.

Daniel Rich (24 disposals @ 79%, 641 metres gained, 7 Rebound 50’s, 5 intercept possessions & 5 score involvements) worked well in tandem with Luke Hodge (21 disposals @ 76%, 13 marks & 5 intercept possessions). Both of them made the Lions look dangerous whenever they hit targets.

Lewis Taylor (18 disposals, 9 score involvements & 4 goals) gave Collingwood numerous headaches, as did Charlie Cameron (16 disposals @ 88%, 6 score involvements, 4 clearances & 1 goal) who continues to be lively with each game that he plays.

Collingwood were able to edge Brisbane out in the moments that mattered, especially without Scott Pendlebury’s leadership for the best part of a half. The Magpies had their natural game style taken away from them, as they were forced by Brisbane to kick the ball more with less handballs, and play on fewer times than what Collingwood desired. To find a way to win against Brisbane’s tactics was pleasing.

The next game for Collingwood will be on May 13 against Geelong at the MCG.

 

[Maggie5]

In a fluctuating contest at the Gabba, Collingwood prevailed in a high-scoring cliffhanger by 7 points against the Brisbane Lions. The Magpies were able to respond with timely goals when they were required, as Brisbane kept breathing down Collingwood’s neck with an onslaught of goals they were able to score themselves.

Scott Pendlebury (20 disposals, 6 score involvements, 4 tackles, 4 clearances, 3 Inside 50’s & 1 goal) was Collingwood’s best player at Half Time, before injuring his ankle in the second term. Pendlebury went forward during the 3rd quarter without being able to contribute. Medical staff ruled him out for the crucial final term, placing a stern test at the feet of his teammates.

Jordan De Goey (20 disposals, 7 marks, 5 marks Inside 50, 12 score involvements, 4 Inside 50’s & 5 goals) was a focal point all night, and was the most influential player in a Collingwood guernsey. Josh Thomas (22 disposals, 7 marks, 9 score involvements, 8 Inside 50’s & 3 goals) had a barnstorming second term in which he kicked all of his goals. Jaidyn Stephenson (21 disposals, 6 marks, 8 score involvements & 2 goals) had a sublime second half, including his 2nd goal that iced the game for the Magpies.

Tom Phillips (28 disposals, 10 marks, 10 score involvements, 612 metres gained, 4 clearances, 6 Inside 50’s & 1 goal) was exceptionally good again. He blended extremely well with Adam Treloar (26 disposals, 14 contested possessions, 7 tackles, 6 score involvements, 9 clearances, 7 Inside 50’s & 1 goal) and Steele Sidebottom (34 disposals, 7 score involvements, 6 marks, 6 clearances & 4 Inside 50’s), who were able to lead with their actions without Pendlebury in the second half. Brodie Grundy (16 disposals, 10 contested possessions, 39 hitouts, 11 tackles & 4 clearances) was highly commendable at contests all night.

Sam Murray (24 disposals, 10 marks, 8 intercept possessions, 5 Rebound 50’s & 6 score involvements) had a mixed game with his ball use, but fought hard to win the ball back in spades. Jeremy Howe (17 disposals @ 82%, 7 marks, 7 intercept possessions & 1 goal) was very good with his ball use, and his reliable hands at marking contests. Jack Crisp (19 disposals, 6 intercept possessions, 5 marks, 4 tackles & 3 Inside 50’s) linked up all night and pumped the ball forward a few times.

For the Lions, Dayne Zorko (34 disposals, 16 contested possessions, 10 score involvements, 697 metres gained, 7 marks, 10 tackles, 10 Inside 50’s & 4 goals) almost won the game for Brisbane by himself, which was remarkable given that he had been in a form slump. Dayne Beams (31 disposals, 10 contested possessions, 5 marks, 5 tackles, 5 score involvements, 5 clearances, 4 Inside 50’s & 2 goals) played a brilliant captain’s game in a losing side, while Stefan Martin (28 disposals @ 71%, 12 contested possessions, 24 hitouts, 11 score involvements, 8 marks, 7 clearances & 4 Inside 50’s) broke even with Brodie Grundy.

Daniel Rich (24 disposals @ 79%, 641 metres gained, 7 Rebound 50’s, 5 intercept possessions & 5 score involvements) worked well in tandem with Luke Hodge (21 disposals @ 76%, 13 marks & 5 intercept possessions). Both of them made the Lions look dangerous whenever they hit targets.

Lewis Taylor (18 disposals, 9 score involvements & 4 goals) gave Collingwood numerous headaches, as did Charlie Cameron (16 disposals @ 88%, 6 score involvements, 4 clearances & 1 goal) who continues to be lively with each game that he plays.

Collingwood were able to edge Brisbane out in the moments that mattered, especially without Scott Pendlebury’s leadership for the best part of a half. The Magpies had their natural game style taken away from them, as they were forced by Brisbane to kick the ball more with less handballs, and play on fewer times than what Collingwood desired. To find a way to win against Brisbane’s tactics was pleasing.

The next game for Collingwood will be on May 13 against Geelong at the MCG.

What were the full stats on Scharenberg please? Do they have 1%?

 

[Swooper18]

Yes. Scharenberg had 4 one percenters. 14 disposals without any impact on the game.

 

[Leigh Lowther]

Collingwood coaches are failing to utilise Murray - the only thing I ever hear from fans is that they 'like the way he goes about it' which can only mean they like watching a player run around really fast? Running yourself into pressure, consequently being forced to make a poor disposal is worthless as well as a waste of energy.

The only reason you would break lines is to create an overlap, but for the overlap to be successful you need to keep the ball moving with forward momentum by using the extra man. However when Murray creates the overlap out of defence he has nobody running with him so he runs himself into frontal pressure - subsequently forced to dispose the ball to a poor contest and then all of a sudden the overlap has been nullified. If Murray can't utilise his speed then hes nothing more than a player with an average set of skills.

I suggest instead of having Murray as the rebounder whos being choked up at half back (collingwood coaching staff ) - lets play him forward of the ball so he can use his speed in less congested areas where being able to outrun defenders is going to make his output skyrocket and we can watch him burn teams on the rebound week in week out.

This is the sort of output he could produce if he was played in the correct position.


imagine how well we could stretch the oppositions forward 50 defensive setup (giving us easier rebounds) if they had to worry about someone like that which is something richmond can do so well with their mosquito fleet.

Richmond were smashed in clearances on the weekend but that only plays into their stratagem of having an open, uncontested forward so when they do get the rebound in their defensive half they can use their pace to burn the opposition the other way. If you look at Richmond's clearance numbers theyre usually lower and often dominated in hitouts yet they are playing a class above everyone else at the moment.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Seriously? You want the club to answer that? You can't work it out yourself?

Listen to Buckley's press conference, he is also addressing this.

Not sure the words, 'held to account' is what this is about me thinks.

I'm not sure how you find that perplexing, it's certainly a fair question. I listened to both pressers of Buckley and Fagan, I didn't hear anything to explain the difference between our best and worst. When we play well after playing poor the inconsistency question is rarely raised and if it is rarely is it answered with an obvious reason as to the why.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Went at 71% DE last season (just for comparison to someone around the same mark, Steele went at 72% in 2017). He's not as bad as what you think.

Regardless, Adams is there predominantly as an inside mid to extract the pill rather than be heavily reliant on his field kicking. He's invaluable when he's at his best. Shouldn't be played in the backline though.

Those DE numbers don't paint the full picture, I agree he works in the phone box and that's his best work. In saying that he needs to stay inside on not over estimate his field kicking and play as the link up - his transition work is the other 29% Need him to play his strengths not turn it over on the outside.

 

[DopeMaster]

Collingwood coaches are failing to utilise Murray - the only thing I ever hear from fans is that they 'like the way he goes about it' which can only mean they like watching a player run around really fast? Running yourself into pressure, consequently being forced to make a poor disposal is worthless as well as a waste of energy.

The only reason you would break lines is to create an overlap, but for the overlap to be successful you need to keep the ball moving with forward momentum by using the extra man. However when Murray creates the overlap out of defence he has nobody running with him so he runs himself into frontal pressure - subsequently forced to dispose the ball to a poor contest and then all of a sudden the overlap has been nullified. If Murray can't utilise his speed then hes nothing more than a player with an average set of skills.

I suggest instead of having Murray as the rebounder whos being choked up at half back (collingwood coaching staff ) - lets play him forward of the ball so he can use his speed in less congested areas where being able to outrun defenders is going to make his output skyrocket and we can watch him burn teams on the rebound week in week out.

This is the sort of output he could produce if he was played in the correct position.


imagine how well we could stretch the oppositions forward 50 defensive setup (giving us easier rebounds) if they had to worry about someone like that which is something richmond can do so well with their mosquito fleet.

Richmond were smashed in clearances on the weekend but that only plays into their stratagem of having an open, uncontested forward so when they do get the rebound in their defensive half they can use their pace to burn the opposition the other way. If you look at Richmond's clearance numbers theyre usually lower and often dominated in hitouts yet they are playing a class above everyone else at the moment.

Disagree on this. Murray initially played in the role you describe with the Swannies 2nds and was moved back due to having such little impact. As soon as he went back he started to really influence games. Not that I wouldn’t love another speedster up forward, just think that Murray is already in his best position, and disagree with the assessment that his line-breaking run from the back half is overwhelmingly not useful.

 

[Pie eyed]

I will put up my hand in knocking Mayne and Blair but seriously what about Dunn? We can't afford to give away a free kick minutes into a game, and has done it before, Adelaide, Richmond and now Brisbane - not good enough. Also Murray, he has been good but today was a shocker. Thank goodness for Howe and the quiet achievers in Crisp and Shaz who are doing their job week in week out.

On Murray, he only has a handful of games under his belt and 3 games in 12 days is going to show up the young kids.
We won. Murray will be better for the bad game.
A lot was made of the youth of Brisvages by the commentators ( lions barrackers), no mention of the youth and inexperience of Collingwood.
Geelong will be the next big hurdle.

Ever week is building a better wheel.........building....building....building.

 

[Pie eyed]

You seem to have moved a long way from my original post.

Sadly I don’t have the same recall of specific plays/players as am yet to watch replay. All I can recall broadly is that they played well and above their previous output and that we certainly made it easier with poor skills, positioning and plays.

Not sure much is to be gained from continuing as my original post asked about using Richmond as a comparison who have had a more settled team in terms of both players and few injuries.

I have watched the replay twice.
Brisbane played their best game for several years and we play well too.
It was a very good quality game.
Our record, even in the best of times, against Brisvegas, is variable.
There win loss ratio belies their actual abilities.

Given the circumstance I'm pumped we won what we would have handed to them last year.

 

[regpies]

Lions can’t play much better than that. We were poor defensively with basic errors in defensive 50 like going for marks all the time and balls going over the back.

They weren’t errors caused by Lions structure or good play. Just dumb on our behalf.

 

[DopeMaster]

Fagan came out after the game and it said it was he best they’d ever played under him. Bucks came out and said it was our worst for the year defensively. Third game in 12 days and all that and I’m pretty happy to come away with the win. Understand we were down on previous form but also understand there are fairly compelling reasons why. Even the best teams in the comp have down days, and we aren’t in that bracket, so I find it hard to be at all pessimistic in my assessment. What I do know is that this is the type of game that we drop in previous years, so to get over the line shows improvement. We are tracking in the right direction.

 

[left at home]

Why’ll the game was a great spectacle of free flowing football from both sides.
There was a lot wrong with our team defensively that helped Brisbane immensely. There was a lack of sustained pressure on the ball carrier, lack of two way running. Two many fighting for the ball and letting there opponents be on the outside in space. Poor set up behind the ball.
Hopefully the boys have learnt a lesson and get back to the game plan that has playing good footy in defence and offence. We will need to to beat the cats

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Moral of the story.....dont try and win in a shootout unless its against a bottom two team!!

 

[Bad Horse]

I haven't seen the game, Josh Thomas kicked 3 goals and no one seems to have mentioned it. Pretty good effort IMO.

Yep, leading goalkickers for Collingwood this season

J Thomas 12
WHE 12
Stephenson 10

Compare to some of the more fancied ones in a traditional forward setup you would normally look at.

Fasolo 0
Elliott 0
Moore 3

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Seriously.. how much time does Gerard Whateley and the Slob devote on criticizing tribunal decisions on 360.

Whateley should be nominated to take over Chrisso's role if it's such an easy gig re Whates piece of cake re.

 

[TradeDraft]

Seriously.. how much time does Gerard Whateley and the Slob devote on criticizing tribunal decisions on 360.

Whateley should be nominated to take over Chrisso's role if it's such an easy gig re Whates piece of cake re.

Whateley is a Nerd and Robbo is the Idiot.

Have to talk about something to Kill Time on the Show

 

[domin8tors]

I don't rate his tap work highly as a rule and on Sunday it was not very effective. He has improved every part of his game annually except his directed tap work. There may be an element of midfield co ordination and it may also be in part due to where they are told to start/stand but he doesn't hit it to the advantage of a moving target like Natanui or Ryder. 11 tackles is bloody good though and combined with his regular clearances it shows he is not just a tall athlete but a real footballer who is tall. It isn't mechanical it is instictive. The first footballer we have drated as a ruckman ever unless you count Fraser (Monkhorst was pre draft u 19s).

I'd love to get a high calibre ruck coach to work with Grundy and the midfield just on clearance plans.

i'm pretty certain that Grundy is top 3 for hitouts to advantage

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Moral of the story.....dont try and win in a shootout unless its against a bottom two team!!

Moral of the story.

When you win, you get four points.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Whateley is a Nerd and Robbo is the Idiot.

Have to talk about something to Kill Time on the Show

It's every week Dave.. They harp on about tribunal decisions at nauseum re.

It's boring as all f.