Autopsy Post game Pies loss to Eagles

[Baltimore Jack]

didn't realise everything has to be pro bias collingwood on here.. if i feel as though theres something i dont like.. il say it.. and obviously someone who think i have no idea about our game plan seems to think he does. Einstein

Of course you can give an opinion, that's what this place is all about, but it appears as if you don't like it when your opinion is challenged.
You know the old "its my bat and ball" stuff

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

No, we can't agree.



Too early to say for me. His best is obviously good enough - and you don't give up easily on players who have that. He needs to find consistency.



Maybe not actually playing in the GF, but could be on our list for a Premiership tilt ...

Consider our current backline: Langdon, Williams, Oxley, Maynard, Brown, Frost. And we have players like Scharenberg, Ramsay, Marsh, Manteit pushing through.

There's threadbare experience there - although Williams, Langdon and Frost are becoming sure heads.

You don't just mindlessly toss away a Premiership backline player when there are so many kids around. Otherwise we end up like GWS has been.

Toovey is 28. He's contracted until the end of 2016. I wouldn't be surprised if we offer him one more year after that.

Toovey has arguably been our worst defender this year, I'm not saying drop him, I'm suggesting we need to consider a succession plan. He looks a step off, gets beaten more often than not and is one of the oldest players on our list, just can't see him suddenly regaining that speed and edge in 2 years time.

Regarding Ben Ken, how many opportunities does he get. Every single time he gets elevated he does FA. He tears up the VFL but like Patty K, but both their games flat out stink at AFL level. It's happened 3 or 4 times now and it happens every single time

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

He needs a run of games he has the talent he, has speed and tenacity. Consistency of games at the level is what he needs to adjust.

I understand he is probably the most talented player at VFL level in the comp. tears it up and has earned his opportunity to get a go. But time and time again he looks out of place at AFL level and I don't how many more chances he gets

 

[spartan-magpie]

"Frustrated" is my call.

We did as well as can be expected without

Spoiler

Cloke

, Elliott, Adams, Boomhead.

Of the inclusions, Williiams and Greenwood did well.

I started watching the game at midnight. I think "frustrating" is a nice way to sum it up.

Look at the positives though, no Cloke, Adams, broomhead, Goldsack, Reid. We will be fine but for the past 4 not to yield a victory is concerning. We should be 2-2 from this period.


Signs are still good. Still think we will give this year a good shake. If we win our next 5 we are right back in the mix.

 

[Premier Pies]

I thought I'd check in and see if the sky is falling down. It's fair to say after reading the first eight pages of this thread, the sky has completely and utterly smashed down on top of the Collingwood Football Club.

There is now nothing at all to look forward to for the rest of the season because.....the sky has fallen down.

Go Pies

 

[BringouttheGimp]

y

Of course you can give an opinion, that's what this place is all about, but it appears as if you don't like it when your opinion is challenged.
You know the old "its my bat and ball" stuff

you didnt challenge my opinion.. i love arguing too and from.. i can do it all day.. but about a topic.. not your big nose or receding hairline.. you basically called me an idiot for having an opinion.. you didn't challenge my opinion Mr Einstein game plan guru

 

[BringouttheGimp]

All views are welcome mate imo.

There are some on here (and all pies forums) who only want to hear that the sun shines out of pies backsides all the time and will belittle people who have a differing view best you just put your best argument forward and agree to disagree with some people.

thanks mate.. nice comment

 

[76woodenspooners]

Toovey has arguably been our worst defender this year, I'm not saying drop him, I'm suggesting we need to consider a succession plan. He looks a step off, gets beaten more often than not and is one of the oldest players on our list, just can't see him suddenly regaining that speed and edge in 2 years time.

I'd argue that we already have a succession plan with Toovey, and have had for some time (at least 18 months)

Regarding Ben Ken, how many opportunities does he get. Every single time he gets elevated he does FA. He tears up the VFL but like Patty K, but both their games flat out stink at AFL level. It's happened 3 or 4 times now and it happens every single time

A player of Kennedy's would have to break team orders in a serious way to get dropped after one game. Look at Karnezis, Gault ... They got an opportunity to improve themselves in a string of games. I'd expect Kennedy would get same.

 

[Bay Pie]

I thought I'd check in and see if the sky is falling down. It's fair to say after reading the first eight pages of this thread, the sky has completely and utterly smashed down on top of the Collingwood Football Club.

There is now nothing at all to look forward to for the rest of the season because.....the sky has fallen down.

Go Pies

LOL. I don't bother reading post match threads after we lose. No because I'm a sore loser but because you just know it'll be the typical sky is falling rubbish. Drop him, he's rubbish, bring in Gault play Kyle Martin etc. blah blah.

By all means discuss the game just gone but the clubs focus should remain on the big picture, week reaches far beyond next week and includes not just throwing all the kids in at once. That's just not how to develop kids.

 

[QS]

Cloke, Elliott and Adams out hurt a lot but in the end if you are good enough you find a way to win anyway.

WC are clearly more advanced then the pies atm and deserved the win we have a few areas to work on some more class to inject and get preseasons into before we will be a genuine threat.

I think WC can have a real crack over the next 3 seasons maybe even pinch one this year, Hawks are a great side but imo also beatable. Hell if we kicked even remotely straight we would of won by 6+ vs them a few weeks back.
You just have to bring that physical pressure and fight fire with fire Mitchell likes to snipe and I noticed a few of our lads gave it back to him when we played them as well as all there players was good viewing as pie supporter for the future.

WC like pies have a high pressure game style so you guys could well bring them undone on the day.

Well thought out post and agreed. Seems few teams are prepared to take it to Hawthorn and shove their 'unsociable football' back down their throat. You guys did that and were the better team on the night but didn't get the result against them. In any event, I think you're spot on the high pressure footy and not letting them have it their own way is key.

McGovern hurts though Hopefully Cloke not out too long either. Cheers for the hospitality.

 

[76woodenspooners]

LOL. I don't bother reading post match threads after we lose.

Busted

 

[Mame]

Seriously you think this justifies losing and its all ok? Over the difference between 24 and 25? 90 and 100 games? If that is the case we may as well not turn up against anyone slightly older than us. Just accept West coast are better than us full stop without the age proviso added in.

What an absolute load of rot. Didn't even comment and you blather on about not turning up. If you think that more experience and maturity is not a big part of why they are better than us then you really are ignorant.

 

[Hardas]

He said he needs to find out if he can play at this level, it was pretty pointed

OK, thanks - I see it now.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Missed Cloke my arse, they destroyed us all over the ground and should have won by 60 plus, the thing that irks me is the game plan looks shot against good sides, every goal is like pulling teeth for us, EVERYTHING we do is just bloody hard work even kicking to a loose man. Again that high press Buckley loves cost us at least 3 goals today because when it fails the opposition get out the back.
This has happened so much in the last 4 weeks it's not funny!
I have been rather diplomatic up to this point this year and been positive on the whole but no more! not when all the promise gets sucked out of another season and have to watch the same crap as last year and a team full of pretenders who let down the half a dozen or so who actually bleed every game!

10 players under 50 games.
Expect much?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

im commenting on my opinions on the game.. and you want to attack me on a personal level.. get stuffed mate

you didnt challenge my opinion.. i love arguing too and from.. i can do it all day.. but about a topic.. not your big nose or receding hairline.. you basically called me an idiot for having an opinion.. you didn't challenge my opinion Mr Einstein game plan guru

 

[The Falcon Strike]

All views are welcome mate imo.

There are some on here (and all pies forums) who only want to hear that the sun shines out of pies backsides all the time and will belittle people who have a differing view best you just put your best argument forward and agree to disagree with some people.

Having chatted on various boards for many years - fair to say the pies board and the cats boards are the best to engage with. Accept differing views quite well despite the very odd loose cannon poster we all have.

Car,ton... Haven't been there since 2011 ...

Pretty ugly game yesterday for both sides - and massive injuries to each

For us the win was crucial given we lost gov and have Syd, freo and Hawks in the coming month

We might get a break against Sydney with Tippett and Pyke injured

For your guys - Jesse White is a liability... But bugger me if Varcoe isn't close to the recruit of the year. You lost a bloke who is fringe at Melbourne and got a bloke who is probably top 3-5 in your b&f.

 

[Mame]

I've got a whole roll of tin-foil that you can make a big hat out of

 

[robertg22]

For your guys - Jesse White is a liability... But bugger me if Varcoe isn't close to the recruit of the year. You lost a bloke who is fringe at Melbourne and got a bloke who is probably top 3-5 in your b&f.

Agree on both points.

Many doubted whether Varcoe would be a good signing (myself included) but he has been superb. A change of scenery seems to have revitalised him a fair bit.

 

[ClaytonM]

It is a rule of thumb that the speed of AFL football is hard to adapt to even coming up from the VFL. I remember MM trying to get games into Medhurst one year just to get him used to the speed again before the finals - 8 weeks out, he was saying we are running out of time. Posters on this board have an expectation that ALL young players must make an immediate impact. Greenwood's year is shot due to his lack of fitness from the injury - he was very serviceable today despite this. Players like Kennedy need weeks to get used to the adjustment. Seasoned professionals like Pendles can slot straight back into the game easily. Please give young players time.

My long term concerns are that Reid and Cloke are on big money contracts with difficult soft tissue injuries. I am assuming Elliot, Cloke and Pendles have been playing hurt recently too.

Grundy's decision making with ball in hand is worrying - he doesn't look like he knows what to do with it. I hope that changes. Both he and Witts are a couple of years from having an impact so know what your talking about with how a ruckman develops.

Varcoe is a massive recruit for us not just with the way he is playing but with the leadership he will teach the younger players - inspirational.

Please cut De Goey, Oxley, Maynard and Co. some slack. They need a couple of pre seasons under their belt. Moore and Scharanberg the same FFS. Stop looking for the messiah to arrive. Neither have blitzed the VFL to demand selection and won't yet. Playing them in the AFL means bigger losses but more game time - this board will linch them if they fail the first few games.

Supporters need to be patient. There are no ready made fixes in AFL these days. It takes a few years to build a team and we are just starting. We will have unexpected wins and huge losses but most importantly, the young players run out of legs toward the end of the season and injuries to senior players can really hurt us.

Feel free to vent your personal opinions after all it is a forum but stop acting like we are anything better than an 8 to 14 positioned team. We had a fixture this year reflecting that position and have played some excellent games of football in recent weeks.

As for todays game, that might be my last Etihad game - I'm over that shit hole of a stadium - it was a boring game of Aussie rules today. The custodians of the game allowing basketball zoning and presses with a rolling rugby swarm should be ashamed of themselves and Etihad allows that crap to happen more easily. The out on the full - under no pressure - happens because it's a set option to hug the boundary line so stoppages allow rest and set plays.

From where I was sitting on the wing today, some players are made to look stupid because there are no options ahead of them. So there is real and perceived pressure from behind but no player to pass to ahead. Langdon and Frost often are caught out in this way. TV misrepresents the 'no where to go' play and makes the players look ridiculous.

I'd like to see all the young players blooded through the team for the rest of the season on a rotational basis. I don't expect Cloke or Reid will be back so White will need to play a role he wasn't recruited for. Just suck it up, we need his big body out there right now.

Bucks summed up where Seeds is at in the press conference, so he is playing for his career right now I suspect. There just may be a couple of other players in the same boat.

Finally, why did Bucks start the season saying he wanted us to be the fastest transition side in the AFL when we don't have the speed or skill to carry that out? We have definitely moved away from that train of thought.

My thoughts! - haters go ahead and hate.

Well said.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Many doubted whether Varcoe would be a good signing (myself included) but he has been superb. A change of scenery seems to have revitalised him a fair bit.

I think he is playing a game style even better than he was playing at Geelong

 

[BringouttheGimp]

if someone calls me an idiot.. il do the same if i felt it was warranted. nice crack a it though. good stuff.. youre clever.. road scholar no doubt

 

[ClaytonM]

Yep and DArcy should probably be brought back for the rest of the year. Officially a development year now.

Always was. Those who thought it wasn't were getting ahead of themselves. Some of them are now whinging about the past four weeks, and particularly last night. The reality is nothing much has changed since the start of the year, and I have same opinion about the team now as I did four weeks ago.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Always was. Those who thought it wasn't were getting ahead of themselves. Some of them are now whinging about the past four weeks, and particularly last night. The reality is nothing much has changed since the start of the year, and I have same opinion about the team now as I did four weeks ago.

This ^

 

[Nicco_jj]

It is a rule of thumb that the speed of AFL football is hard to adapt to even coming up from the VFL. I remember MM trying to get games into Medhurst one year just to get him used to the speed again before the finals - 8 weeks out, he was saying we are running out of time. Posters on this board have an expectation that ALL young players must make an immediate impact. Greenwood's year is shot due to his lack of fitness from the injury - he was very serviceable today despite this. Players like Kennedy need weeks to get used to the adjustment. Seasoned professionals like Pendles can slot straight back into the game easily. Please give young players time.

My long term concerns are that Reid and Cloke are on big money contracts with difficult soft tissue injuries. I am assuming Elliot, Cloke and Pendles have been playing hurt recently too.

Grundy's decision making with ball in hand is worrying - he doesn't look like he knows what to do with it. I hope that changes. Both he and Witts are a couple of years from having an impact so know what your talking about with how a ruckman develops.

Varcoe is a massive recruit for us not just with the way he is playing but with the leadership he will teach the younger players - inspirational.

Please cut De Goey, Oxley, Maynard and Co. some slack. They need a couple of pre seasons under their belt. Moore and Scharanberg the same FFS. Stop looking for the messiah to arrive. Neither have blitzed the VFL to demand selection and won't yet. Playing them in the AFL means bigger losses but more game time - this board will linch them if they fail the first few games.

Supporters need to be patient. There are no ready made fixes in AFL these days. It takes a few years to build a team and we are just starting. We will have unexpected wins and huge losses but most importantly, the young players run out of legs toward the end of the season and injuries to senior players can really hurt us.

Feel free to vent your personal opinions after all it is a forum but stop acting like we are anything better than an 8 to 14 positioned team. We had a fixture this year reflecting that position and have played some excellent games of football in recent weeks.

As for todays game, that might be my last Etihad game - I'm over that shit hole of a stadium - it was a boring game of Aussie rules today. The custodians of the game allowing basketball zoning and presses with a rolling rugby swarm should be ashamed of themselves and Etihad allows that crap to happen more easily. The out on the full - under no pressure - happens because it's a set option to hug the boundary line so stoppages allow rest and set plays.

From where I was sitting on the wing today, some players are made to look stupid because there are no options ahead of them. So there is real and perceived pressure from behind but no player to pass to ahead. Langdon and Frost often are caught out in this way. TV misrepresents the 'no where to go' play and makes the players look ridiculous.

I'd like to see all the young players blooded through the team for the rest of the season on a rotational basis. I don't expect Cloke or Reid will be back so White will need to play a role he wasn't recruited for. Just suck it up, we need his big body out there right now.

Bucks summed up where Seeds is at in the press conference, so he is playing for his career right now I suspect. There just may be a couple of other players in the same boat.

Finally, why did Bucks start the season saying he wanted us to be the fastest transition side in the AFL when we don't have the speed or skill to carry that out? We have definitely moved away from that train of thought.

My thoughts! - haters go ahead and hate.

Another level headed, sane comment. Where have you been all my life!

 

[TradeDraft]

For your guys - Jesse White is a liability... But bugger me if Varcoe isn't close to the recruit of the year. You lost a bloke who is fringe at Melbourne and got a bloke who is probably top 3-5 in your b&f.

Hey - I been saying that all year that White is a Dud and won’t get any better.

Varcoe has found a whole new level he has never gotten to as a Cat