Analysis Post Match Thread - Pies 67 def by Eagles 102 - Rd 17 2018

[cleomenes]

I agree with those who say that we are being over critical of our players. As soon as Cox was out, we were in trouble. He is the point of difference between our team and others now that the explosive movement of Treloar is gone.
Varcoe can be criticised for his kicking failures, but if they were due to fears for his hamstrings (which it looked like on Telly), then the selectors are at fault for putting him out there. Likewise Hoskin-Elliott. If Cox was too sore to play, then so was he.
Daicos is very young, and at the in and out stage of his career.
Stephenson is having a phenomenal year. We are relying on him to do the outstanding every week, and he is also very young.

One thing that occurred to me was that when West Coast identified De Goey as the only real target up forward and placed McGovern to cut this off, we had no effective response. TV coverage makes it hard to see what is going on, but maybe more could have been made of Mihocek if he was in position. Perhaps he wasn't, or perhaps the kicks needed to get to him were beyond the ability of the ball carriers under pressure. De Goey is such a presence that he attracts the ball, so from this remove it is futile to second guess what our players did.

First quarter inaccuracy was the killer on the day. The slow kick around the back line would have been a far less viable tactic for West Coast if they had been chasing a substantial lead. Once we were well down, it was up to us to change things but our best on field leader was nursing his ACL.

We do have to face the facts though. Our injuries this year have been to the top line players, or the ones that have no solid replacement. We have done extraordinarily well to be in this position in the circumstances, and have covered losses amazingly (Dunn with Moore, Aish with Mayne fas examples), but I think that Treloar is one too many. Elliott will be a great addition if he makes it back, but he doesn't fill the same hole. We may well slip a fair way down the ladder now, but I would blame the accumulation of injuries and not individuals if it were to happen.

 

[MyManLynch]

It was a loss weeks in the making.
A loss we had to have.
We have been exposed.
We can identify our weaknesses, make changes then move forward.

 

[Maggie5]

My thoughts about yesterday ...

As soon as I heard that Cox was out and Crocker was in, I had a feeling that we would lose (like most on here). If they knew that Cox was GS, why didn't the emergencies reflect this. It wasn't like for like.

In game even though the 1st qtr looked good, there were instances where senior players like Howe made errors unlike previous games all game; JDG although one of our best missed easy marks in our fwd 50 almost playing a sole hand; Sier getting injury restricted our structures in the centre; Sidebottom clearly beaten all day; defence was under pressure all day; (kudos to WC for their delivery); I wasn't aware Langdon was also off for a time.

This was a loss that was coming and at least it wasn't a blowout.

Now to coaching, maybe someone can correct me but the only in-game change I saw was Varcoe from forward to back, like others have mentioned why wasn't Sidebottom switched fwd with JDG tocentre; or Mihocek back? Greenwood tag? Was WHE really fit to play?

Instead of singling out Crocker, Daicos I would be putting it to the senior players as well if not more.

I believe until we can get some injured players back Varcoe and Greenwood stay, Daics rest and bring in Brown, and even though some may say this is a personal gripe, I don't believe we get enough out of Mayne playing wing and it seems that is the only position he has played to date.

Players like Stepho and Thomas tried all day and still have credits in the bank so am prepared to give them a pass.

Good to see Moore back and looked exciting first game back and not at all cautious but confident in attacking the ball.

I wouldn't be that harsh on Grundy either, very little support in the ruck and still worked hard. 92% TOG.

These are just some thoughts, maybe more will come later.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Must say I’ve found the number of Pies fans coming onto our board with genuine well wishes very surprising and heartwarming. Easily the best from any club all year.

Cheers everybody, hope to meet you deep in September!

 

[jackcass]

Here are the qualities the players you listed and some other young guns have had from day 1, which is why they showed such promise:
Adams - ferocious contested ball player
Treloar - Gut runner with X-Factor
De Goey - Huge frame, strong and fast
Hoskin-Elliott - Elite Athleticism and leaping ability, natural footballer
Phillips - Elite endurance
Stephenson - X-Factor off the scales
Sharenberg - Calm head and elite disposal
etc etc.....

Please explain to me what we have seen from Daicos? Is it his marking? His defensive ability? His disposal? His goal sense? Please enlighten me as to what I'm not seeing??

Week in week out i bring this up and week in and week out he is a passenger.

I think Daic's shows great vision, great poise, footy smarts, clean hands and generally good disposal. Can't teach much of that. When drafted he was a very skinny kid with limited exposure to elite pathways and development. In a perfect world he wouldn't even be getting games at the moment and would still be developing in the VFL but I'm not sure if you've noticed our injury list. These games will stand him in good stead going forward. Same can be said for the 2x Brown lads. Maybe the issue is more about your expectations of him at this level this early in his development. I have more confidence Daicos will make the grade longer term than I do Phillips.

 

[gappa]

I’d forgotten how much I hate losing.

Didn’t get to watch but from listening to the radio sounded like we weren’t working hard enough.

 

[Kirby]

Thought it was Hutchings.

You're correct. I got them mixed up

 

[nahnah]

We just need to get players back and we will be fine, we are playing 3-4 who aren’t ready or never will be.

We also lost the game to west coast because of terrible work rate I felt.

 

[surfer1]

Just a couple of reflections on yesterday.

A couple of things Sier did in first quarter in heavy traffic were really promising.

I thought unlike a lot of others Mayne played ok and showed a lot more confidence and composure.

Likewise I thought Langdon was close to our best down back.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Injuries have hurt but the other reality for that list is we are unlikely to see any significant contributions from Dunn and Wells in the future and there are doubts around what we will get from Fas and Reid. Aish at this stage is a 18-22 player and easily replaced.

Cox, Treloar and hopefully Elliott are really the only ones from that list that may make a significant difference in the future.

If and it's a big one
Reid recovers from his knee scrape and becomes 90% fit he will be an assett

There's your CHB

Appleby Moore. Howe

Crisp. Reid. Shaz

Reid has physical strength great body positioning and experience
If he gets to 95% it will certainly assist

At this point shaz Howe aren't strong enough ( core strength ) and get manhandled

If he's fit he's our best for a gorilla

 

[Pie eyed]

You don't have to come on here on your High Horse taking Pot Shots at Negative Posts

Dave if pots shotting players is fair game pot shotting posters should be mandatory.

 

[jathanas]

If and it's a big one
Reid recovers from his knee scrape and becomes 90% fit he will be an assett

There's your CHB

Appleby Moore. Howe

Crisp. Reid. Shaz

Reid has physical strength great body positioning and experience
If he gets to 95% it will certainly assist

At this point shaz Howe aren't strong enough ( core strength ) and get manhandled

If he's fit he's our best for a gorilla

Agreed, Reid is very effective in "1 on 1" scenarios. If he can somehow resurrect his dying body we would be much better off as a team.

 

[Vicky Park]

Wondering why we played WHE yesterday - probably in desperation. He was clearly hobbled, and his goals have dried up in the last three or so games due to his ankle/knee issues. I hope he's not too much of a confidence player, because his confidence might be taking a hit ATM. God help us if we have to leave him out this week, to properly recover. Elliott has to play VFL first, before he comes back in.

More positively, I thought Moore looked super fit and comfortable on his return. No sign of being tentative. He threw himself into the game, and kudos to him for that. We can only hope that Elliott is as fit and raring to ge when he gets back - against Richmond?

 

[TradeDraft]

After 1 game against a full strength top 2 team in the competition when ours is riddled with injury?

You’d think we lost by 120 points the way you carry on.

Or did you have us as premiership favourites before the start of the season?

I had us Bottom 4 but I changed that expectations at Half way thru the Season.

It's how we lost. Was like watching us play last year absolute Terribly

 

[TradeDraft]

I wouldn't be that harsh on Grundy either, very little support in the ruck and still worked hard. 92% TOG..

Grundy had no Real Back-Up yesterday as Moore would of been his Chop Out but we Played him Down Back so that was not going to Happen

 

[TradeDraft]

Wondering why we played WHE yesterday - probably in desperation. He was clearly hobbled, and his goals have dried up in the last three or so games due to his ankle/knee issues. I hope he's not too much of a confidence player, because his confidence might be taking a hit ATM. God help us if we have to leave him out this week, to properly recover. Elliott has to play VFL first, before he comes back in.

More positively, I thought Moore looked super fit and comfortable on his return. No sign of being tentative. He threw himself into the game, and kudos to him for that. We can only hope that Elliott is as fit and raring to ge when he gets back - against Richmond?

He had Injury Problems at GWS and what I read this what Happened when he is not 100% he can go Missing

 

[jackcass]

Er, no... WC were a better team than us today. Pretty much full strength except for NicN in the second half and Barass missing... they will cause some damage in September.

Sheed might be the only other 1.

 

[jackcass]

Mihoceck will be doing a ton of goal kicking practice this week.

Would love to see his GPS numbers for the last few games, reckon he had a huge step up relative to other games.

 

[jackcass]

You don't have to come on here on your High Horse taking Pot Shots at Negative Posts

People can make negative comments without adding colourful over the top descriptors like "disgraced". Not 1 player disgraced themselves. A few had off days.

 

[CFC2010]

Must say I’ve found the number of Pies fans coming onto our board with genuine well wishes very surprising and heartwarming. Easily the best from any club all year.

Cheers everybody, hope to meet you deep in September!

We couldn't be better than the GOAT in Richmond?

 

[Didstar]

I had us Bottom 4 but I changed that expectations at Half way thru the Season.

It's how we lost. Was like watching us play last year absolute Terribly

While it was a disappointing performance, It was really only the last third of the 3rd quarter (final 6 or 7 minutes) where they kicked away. Scores were level up until that point. Twice we have kept up with teams like Richmond/WCE and challenged them particularly for the opening half, before they got on top, which shows that we aren't too far away, just aren't able to put 4 quarters of consistent footy like the best sides are. The positive is there are plenty of areas of improvement, with both personnel in coming weeks and many players having 'off days'. I daresy if Cox was playing, the impact of WC interceptors would have been reduced, albeit they would still probably come away with a hard fought win, and we would be reasonably content having lost a tight game, knowing that we aren't too far away particularly after replacing some of the bottom 22 in the side with top 5 players.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

Mihocek could have had a fairly large day, considering how often he got his hands on the ball.

As with plenty of the side yesterday, finishing unfortunately let him down.

 

[jackcass]

A 5 game player kicks 2 goals on one of the best 3 defenders in the league and you call that unacceptable?
I would be happy if Mihochek played "unacceptably" by kicking 2 goals per game every week - which would make him a 46 goal a season player.

While offering Grundy a chop out in the ruck... and while offering that lead up option to get out of defence... worked his butt off.

 

[jackcass]

I can guarantee you Elliott would have done more than Crocker these last two weeks.

I like Daicos and he has had a good run but I think Brown deserves another run now.

Can't disagree with swapping Brown and Daicos. Neither ready yet for senior footy but it will be beneficial longer term to get these opportunities.

 

[MayneSpudHunter]

I agree with those who say that we are being over critical of our players. As soon as Cox was out, we were in trouble. He is the point of difference between our team and others now that the explosive movement of Treloar is gone.
Varcoe can be criticised for his kicking failures, but if they were due to fears for his hamstrings (which it looked like on Telly), then the selectors are at fault for putting him out there. Likewise Hoskin-Elliott. If Cox was too sore to play, then so was he.
Daicos is very young, and at the in and out stage of his career.
Stephenson is having a phenomenal year. We are relying on him to do the outstanding every week, and he is also very young.

One thing that occurred to me was that when West Coast identified De Goey as the only real target up forward and placed McGovern to cut this off, we had no effective response. TV coverage makes it hard to see what is going on, but maybe more could have been made of Mihocek if he was in position. Perhaps he wasn't, or perhaps the kicks needed to get to him were beyond the ability of the ball carriers under pressure. De Goey is such a presence that he attracts the ball, so from this remove it is futile to second guess what our players did.

First quarter inaccuracy was the killer on the day. The slow kick around the back line would have been a far less viable tactic for West Coast if they had been chasing a substantial lead. Once we were well down, it was up to us to change things but our best on field leader was nursing his ACL.

We do have to face the facts though. Our injuries this year have been to the top line players, or the ones that have no solid replacement. We have done extraordinarily well to be in this position in the circumstances, and have covered losses amazingly (Dunn with Moore, Aish with Mayne fas examples), but I think that Treloar is one too many. Elliott will be a great addition if he makes it back, but he doesn't fill the same hole. We may well slip a fair way down the ladder now, but I would blame the accumulation of injuries and not individuals if it were to happen.

I agree with the DeGoey comment. what i was really perplexed by is why the coaches didnt move degoey into the midfield and free up some of the boys up forward. on the same wavelength, the coaches should have identified the double-teaming on JDG and used this move to play through the corridor and into space for michocek and Stephenson to run onto. these changes were made the week before against the Dons, would have liked to see the same this week.