Autopsy post mortem v hawks

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Moti

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Mar 4, 2001
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So why was he moved back?

Multiple choice.

A) sh*t forward
B) Useless as a forward
C) Got in everyone’s way up forward
D) All of the above

If we are entertaining Majak the forward again, then Shaw has lost his marbles or the cupboard is so bare he has no choice.
E) Waite returned and for team balance Maj went back. I was actually pretty confident 2019 may have been a more permanent move for Maj forward.
 

Hojuman

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The more I think about it the more I'm pissed off at this loss.


That's the frustrating thing. We are 5 goals down and all of a sudden; " s**t, let's take a risk, guns blazing "
v Colas - goal-goal-goal-goal
v Dawks - goal-goal-goal-goal

Almost steal both games. Where is this in the preceding 3 1/2q ?
 

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Flawed Genius

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The good:

Jy- 23 touches, 7 clearances, 6 tackles and a goal and just about willed us over the line. I'm excited to see what happens when Cunnington comes back and they can't just sit someone like Worpel on him. In my opinion he has gone from a part time midfielder to a genuine gun of the competition, like top 10 type sh*t, in the matter of an offseason. Lightning hands, hard as a cat's head, hits the scoreboard, tackles to hurt, moves well in congestion. He has all the tools and now all of the requisite hunger to be our top-line 10+ year midfielder. If he was wearing black and white stripes he'd be talked about as the next Judd - he'll be our next captain

Walker -for a bargain basement pickup he's going to be arguably our most important selection. Just gets it done, he had 17 touches as a key back. Him and Tarrant are colossuses back there and they must sit back and wonder what the fu** the midfield are doing that it's coming down there at a million miles an hour 70 times a game

Tarrant - I love him and I hope he never retires

Goldstein - out and out superstar. Ceglar basically had to infringe at every ruck contest to stop Goldy beating him over the head with his own arm. Of all the reasonable points Clarkson made in his post match press conference, his whinging about ruck contest frees was unwarranted as if Ceglar hadn't infringed, Goldy would have had 140 hitouts. I heard over the weekend three separate ruckmen referred to as the best in the game (Grundy,Gawn, NicNat) then Ryder, Marshall and O'Brien from Adelaide mentioned as the next sort of best.They're even talking up Pittonet from Carlton (who has been very good) now. Goldstein will never get the plaudits nor the recognition he deserves but honestly who cares?

Higgins- much improved from last week. Noticeably took on a little more of the grunt work but still down on his regular output despite having 30 touches. Think maybe he realised he needed to step up with Cunners out. Hopefully this can be a build up week for him for the rest of the season

McDonald - think he was on Breust? Outside that first goal which was Atley's fault, he made Breust largely invisible. He is having a really good season despite what people may think. I think we need to lower our expectations from "McDonald was selected with pick 8 ergo he must be a bonafide midfield gun" to "McDonald was recruited with pick 8 and he is going to develop into a really good defensive lockdown halfback/back pocket who can make the opposition's best small forward disappear". If you could have drafted peak Nick Smith from Sydney with pick 8, would you have done it? I probably would have.

Taylor- I just look at him now and think. fu**. What is it going to be like in two or three years? He appears to have the good mix of arrogance, natural ability and talent that makes for really outstanding half forwards. I see a bit of early-career Michael Walters in him- there when the game is to be won, but really dangerous around goals and able to jump on people's heads. Walters has developed into a genuine midfielder and that's where Taylor isn't quite at yet, but he will influence games by himself when the time is right. I loved the call from someone on here about "true stars want the ball in their hands when the game is there to be won" and I think that says it all about Taylor

Mahoney - nice cameo debut. Loved his little three-handball play to get Hall's goal. Seems to know where to be and how to get there in good time. Will be a player but needs time to adjust to the speed of the game. Certainly more positive than negative

Thomas last quarter - someone get him angry every week. Last quarter just went to another level. The mark that ended up with a free to Brown and a goal. The left foot snap, fu**. Seemed to be everywhere and almost willed us to a win along with Simpkin. You salivate about what he could be and lament his almost non-involvement in the game for the first three quarters and then you see it all come together in the last quarter and phwoar. I think he needs to be played closer to goal for the rest of the season and then get him super fit, training with Jy in the off season. This isn't his season to blow the doors off, that's the second half of next season and then 2022 onwards

Dumont - seemed to have kept Scully to 10 touches while getting 22 of his own? Or was he on Henderson? Doesn't matter. He's keeping Bailey out of the team. A really good wingman who rarely makes mistakes.

The bad

Brown- not really his fault when theres no Larkey to draw a second defender, no Zurhaar doing much of anything at all, no decent delivery from the midfield because they're getting flogged and having to pump it in. But he does have to be better and jump at the footy with two hands. Even if he tries to fly with two hands and only gets one up, it may prompt umps to pay the holding the arm free kick. He is infringed on nearly every time down the ground and its a bizarre blindness from the umpires that we need to learn to deal with. Thought he did his best to try and get involved in the game but he needs Larkey so badly it's not funny

Ziebell -I feel really bad because he is the heart and soul and very clearly wants nothing more than to be giving everything for the team but he's so clearly not 100%. Watching him trail Sicily (quite possibly the worst match up for him just quietly) into contests by 30 metres and losing his footing every time he tried to physically impose himself on the game is actually hurting me as a supporter and a longtime fan of Jack. I love him for what he is and has been for the club, but he isn't a midfielder (Jy, Cunners, Higgins, Polec, Anderson are all better options) and with a full contingent of forwards (Brown Larkey Zurhaar Thomas Taylor Wood etc) he doesn't fit there either. If we dropped JMac we certainly arent going to trial Jack as a backman because I don't think he has the footskills to succeed there either. I don't know where he fits and its almost a blessing that he is injured because it means we don't have to make a hard call for a little bit. But I am extremely sad that this is where we are at with a man who has genuinely given everything for the club

Pittard - ah yes now I see what those Port blokes were banging on about. Again the backline (Pittard/Atley specifically) performance has to viewed in the lens of some pretty ordinary efforts up the field, but Jasper's disposal seems to be pretty crap over the last few weeks. I have faith that he will right the ship in the weeks to come. At least there is some passion

Atley- Don't know where we go from here. 201 games and none of them have been matchwinning. I will flog myself to the left foot goal against Sydney in the final until the day I die but youd' almost drop him for JMac this week


The meh:

Polec - meh

Xerri -yeah OK big fella, there's a future there, but meh to start with

Anderson - gosh he tries hard. I really do love him but he can't kick the prune. Until his bad outweighs his good, he stays

Hall - the human manifestation and personification of human blue balls crossed with a 50% mark on an important test

Ahern - better this week than last but what is his actual role in the team

Marley - Needs a few weeks

Hayden -love that he is getting an apprenticeship on the best the game has to offer. Heeney against the Swans and then some time on Breust. Only goin to be a better player for it
 

sbdan

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We need Larkey back ASAP
Josh walker can kick them.

He has settled very well, and i would be hesitant to mess with that, but if Daw was coming back I'd be tempted to give him a shot up forward while larkey is unavailable.

He is strong and can take a pack mark, would offer something different to bbb or Daw in the forward line.
 

Flawed Genius

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I've heard at least two commentators call him clearly the best KPD in the comp in the last two weeks.
And yet all I can see or hear is

Securing his first All-Australian jumper and the final spot in the backline, alongside Tom Stewart, Dane Rampe, Alex Rance [came back Round 11], Tom Hawkins but in the backline, and Luke Ryan [the one from Freo], please extend your warmest congratulations to Jacob Weitering!
 

ferball

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Brown probably could have fought harder to take that kick, but love Taylor wanting the footy in the big moments.
He may have also instinctively allowed his team mate in front to mark and protect the space for him. Our forwards can be very switched on like that.
 

ferball

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a lot of people take pot shots at sicily buy i must say i like him, gets under opps skin, relentlessly tough and would wear the shinboner moniker no problem.
Sunbury boy. They have a Kangaroos team that wears the blue and white stripes. Often gets kicked out of comps for being too brutal.

He'd fit right in.
 

ferball

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I didn't see it that way at all, especially the three only turnovers - bullshit I reckon. But hard to argue with your stats. One bottle of (inexpensive) sav blanc and now the whole BF mob is against me. At least I will sleep well.
If he hadn't shanked that shocking kick then everyone criticising him would have rated him higher for the rest of the night.

That sort of thing can bias you against a player if you have low expectations of them to begin with. One massive visible error like that is worth more than seven good, hard but not particularly noticeable bits of play
 

ferball

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Honestly, love him since he came, but I’m starting to get concerned he’s not helping much this year
I really want to be wrong
He had our highest number of score involvements yesterday. I've always found him a bit less noticeable, even when he gets 35+ disposals.

I noticed yesterday he got plenty of close pressure possessions when others weren't. Would have had 35 - 40 touches in a full length game.
 

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ferball

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Brown and Maj are your two KP players. Brown leads up, Maj is your alternate, long kick option. TT and Zurharr plays the lead up roll, Taylor and Mahoney play the small forward role. Resting mids rotate through.
Play Maj on the wing and tell him to run forward and mark the ball crashing the pack like Duck used to.

I'd love to see that, dunno if it'll happen tho.

But you could do that when the ball gets stuck in their forward half. He's not much use pushing back when their forward 50 is crowded but he could help break those forward presses and break lines running into an open forward line. The way teams clog up forward lines...

We have so many interesting players with unique talents. You could almost make a Pagans paddock work with Maj running off the chb line these days.
 

Rod Stroker

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Which is cool.

But he needs to kick the goal.
It didn't miss by much. And on available evidence this year, I had more confidence in him than Brown.

Not going to hang the kid in game number 6. Thrilled to see that demonstration of leadership from our kids. It was almost them again who got us home; goals to X, TT, Zurhaar, nearly Taylor, and nearly Jy.
 

ferball

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No we get ourselves into positions where it doesn't f***ing matter.

The umpiring did not make us not kick a goal from late in the second until there was 7 minutes left.

And we can control that bit.
There were times in that period when the umpiring made the difference between us getting out of their 50 and not. An unbreakable forward press is good sure but there were a few crucial frees we missed and soft ones they got that kept us in there. Blatant pushes into a players back for example v Marley on Wingard. Up our end they got those soft press breaking frees and our forwards were pushed around more than Wingard.

That inconsistency on its own was the difference in the game despite how poorly we played and how well Clarkson coached.

I use to think it was just us but over the last year I've seen a lot of teams drop their heads because of sh*t umpiring. Maybe kids these days really do have no resilience.

It's not the number of frees it's where and how they are paid. Nearly a third of our frees were due to Ceglar.

I'd love to know how many goals come from frees in general play for and against us. Ones in marking contests with KPPs are usually there. For and against us. Some are a bit harsh, but now Hunter is gone we won't see as many of them. Umps used to sweat on him for them.

It's the soft ones in general play (Wingard for example, Marley was pushed into him,) that we rarely get that sh*t me.

I prefer they weren't paid at all.

Especially after close games like that.

That said, we didn't deserve to win. If Jy had got that goal ... maybe you could say that we broke Clarkson's grid with enough time left to win the game.

But it's not an easy argument to accept.
 

Rod Stroker

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I use to think it was just us but over the last year I've seen a lot of teams drop their heads because of sh*t umpiring. Maybe kids these days really do have no resilience.
It was our kids who exploded in the last quarter and almost got us home. That wouldn't have happened if they had no resilience.
 

Rod Stroker

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That's the frustrating thing. We are 5 goals down and all of a sudden; " s**t, let's take a risk, guns blazing "
v Colas - goal-goal-goal-goal
v Dawks - goal-goal-goal-goal

Almost steal both games. Where is this in the preceding 3 1/2q ?
Cleary, play with reckless abandon is not Plan A for Shawy.
 

Moti

Brownlow Medallist
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It didn't miss by much. And on available evidence this year, I had more confidence in him than Brown.

Not going to hang the kid in game number 6. Thrilled to see that demonstration of leadership from our kids. It was almost them again who got us home; goals to X, TT, Zurhaar, nearly Taylor, and nearly Jy.
Am I the only one that thinks that it is odd that a 100kg player was outmarked easily by a 78kg player who looks like he made the decision to mark at the last second? Or am I not giving Brown enough credit for pulling up?
 

Rod Stroker

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This year is wide f***ing open.

We're about a quarter of the way through the H&A season.

It better click soon or the opportunity will be gone.
Yep. And that's 2 games on our home deck we've dropped. Yesterday was actually a Hawks home game and they rarely play there, so it was an opportunity missed. Those are going to be harder to make up once we get sent to a hub.

We really need to win these next 3 at home, against teams all currently below us on the ladder.
 
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Rod Stroker

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Am I the only one that thinks that it is odd that a 100kg player was outmarked easily by a 78kg player who looks like he made the decision to mark at the last second? Or am I not giving Brown enough credit for pulling up?
I think it's largely attitude.
Ben needs to get more mongrel in him, more presence.
 

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