Autopsy post mortem v hawks

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shimaburnsgrieg

Club Legend
Apr 1, 2017
1,936
4,022
AFL Club
North Melbourne
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New York Yankees
Re Cunners - the current midfield is the least of our issue - we dominated the clearances and stoppages yesterday.

With Goldie playing outstanding footy and with our versatility in there, especially when Polec went in there in Q4 - we actually look like a strong functioning midfield.

We need better forwards and backs - sure Cunners helps 'spread the field' and he comes in when fit but an inside Bull is not the key priority for this 22 right now.
 

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ferball

Premium Platinum
Jul 24, 2015
17,619
33,246
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Why we are long bombing it into the best lead up forward in the game who surrounded by opponents is beyond me. Clear his bloody area !!!!!! Let him lead at the bludger and then someone bloody hit him up !!!!
They set up specifically to prevent that tho.

The whole defensive game is built around stopping us using Brown and rebounding off that turnover. Clarkson and Longmire do it all the time.

Last year Wood and Ziebell had five between them vs these guys and that meant Brown was less of a defensive target. He also kicked 4.3. This year no Larkey or Wood, JZ not up to much and the rest of our forward line was very inexperienced.

Still, what made it hard for us was their pressure and as a result we struggled to get good entries into 50. If we had less pressure on us we would have had better entries into the forward 50 and better delivery to Brown.
 

ferball

Premium Platinum
Jul 24, 2015
17,619
33,246
AFL Club
North Melbourne
That's the frustrating thing. We are 5 goals down and all of a sudden; " s**t, let's take a risk, guns blazing "
v Colas - goal-goal-goal-goal
v Dawks - goal-goal-goal-goal

Almost steal both games. Where is this in the preceding 3 1/2q ?
It could be that the shorter quarters let the disciplined zoning defensive sides hold their ground longer.
 

Moti

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2001
10,732
6,315
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
They set up specifically to prevent that tho.

The whole defensive game is built around stopping us using Brown and rebounding off that turnover. Clarkson and Longmire do it all the time.

Last year Wood and Ziebell had five between them vs these guys and that meant Brown was less of a defensive target. He also kicked 4.3. This year no Larkey or Wood, JZ not up to much and the rest of our forward line was very inexperienced.

Still, what made it hard for us was their pressure and as a result we struggled to get good entries into 50. If we had less pressure on us we would have had better entries into the forward 50 and better delivery to Brown.
2020 football has turned into a defensive slog. Not built for lead up players unless you move well of HB or get some quick ball out of the middle.

You need players who positively influence the long kick into F50 and players at their feet who can take advantage of the chaos that ensues. Tigers struggling because neither Reiwoldt or Lynch are competing as strongly and their smalls are not clean and and such struggling to impact.

Xerri, Maj, Larkey and Mc Kay are the long ball targets we need to have just to have the competition in the air. Larkey and Maj at this stage are the two that can also clunk them if needed. Brown just does not impact the contest with any strength. If we can add this as a dangerous part of our game, it opens up the leading player to take advantage of the flood back into the contest.
 

Devington

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 4, 2013
7,553
12,978
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Mate, no team in the league plays a one on one style defense and certainly no player in the league gets double teamed like they employed in the 90’s

the free forward would fu** you up in the modern game where the small forward is just as destructive as the tall forward.

Hawthorns zone defense with defenders chopping off isn’t double teaming. It’s up to Brown to work separation. Even then, he had the front spot on nearly every one of his runs at the ball.

I don’t seriously know how he expects to take a mark when he raises one arm, flails his arms or doesn’t put up his arms all together. That’s not on the occasions when he’s not running completely under the ball drop.

He’s really really out of form at the moment.
Ok, I get where you're coming from with regards to the definition of double teaming now, and in that case I agree the primary issue there is separation. Hard to get much though when the ball movement is so stagnant. Not really a defense of him, because it was obvious he was doing everything else wrong and he WAS given a half dozen, if not more, plum chances to clunk it fairly cleanly in the 50, but our lack of urgency and speed of ball movement coming out of the backline and midfield for the majority of the game didn't do any of the forwards favors.
 

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NinjaTurtle39

Debutant
Aug 19, 2015
84
316
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I know we'd all love to win the flag but in reality this is a year where we play the young guys and move on from the players who won't be part of our next finals campaign.

Macmillan was the first to go. Probably Atley and MacDonald next although I'd personally just stick with MacDonald.

The kids look poised which for me is a massive positive.
 

Duck the GOAT

Debutant
Apr 5, 2018
58
90
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Number one priority now and has been for several years is a quick half back that can hit a target.

So many instances yesterday where coming out of defensive 50 we miss a target by a few metres, ball hits the deck, invites pressure that shouldnt have been there and the ball goes straight back inside our 50.
 

SaladSandals

Debutant
Oct 7, 2018
98
198
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Quarter and a half of not a single score to 5 goals in how many minutes? I don't know where to start but once Higgins and cunners are gone in the next couple of years we'd want to hope we do well in trades because I doubt all of our talented youth will stick around, if cunners didn't do his back throwing hay around on the farm we could be 4 and 0.
 

Billy Not Really

Premiership Player
Apr 7, 2018
4,207
9,589
Licking windows at the back of the bus.
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Coaches votes

Hawthorn vs North Melbourne
10 Chad Wingard (HAW)
6 Todd Goldstein (NMFC)
5 James Sicily (HAW)
4 Tom Mitchell (HAW)
3 Ben McEvoy (HAW)
2 Jed Anderson (NMFC)
Big indictment on the playing group.

Only Goldstein put in the four-quarter effort, and how many times have I said that, North can't produce a four-quarter effort of their play style. Under Brad we could beat decent teams when we're on, but clearly under Shaw as you can see in the 4th quarter, we can beat ANYONE and we have beaten ANYONE, we've beaten some great teams with that playstyle but you're never gonna win the close wins or the big ones that matter without putting in at least 3 quarters worth of that.

And with a season with shorter quarter times, that is inexcusable and most of that falls on our most senior and experienced players, the younger kids have an excuse they aren't used to that level of intensity for a full game but for our senior blokes that is inexcusable. And that's not even talking about our ball use which is whole other bag of problems.

I will say that what was there was pressure and physicality, in big stretches of the game there were players throwing their bodies on the line at every contest and that stuff wins premierships but you need the endurance and skills to support that.
 

DuckYeah

Premiership Player
Jul 5, 2010
3,561
3,369
Moist island
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Re Cunners - the current midfield is the least of our issue - we dominated the clearances and stoppages yesterday.

With Goldie playing outstanding footy and with our versatility in there, especially when Polec went in there in Q4 - we actually look like a strong functioning midfield.

We need better forwards and backs - sure Cunners helps 'spread the field' and he comes in when fit but an inside Bull is not the key priority for this 22 right now.
Cunners uses the ball well, he is clean by foot and exceptionally good by hand. He takes the best defensive midfielder and worries coaching staff. He is elite and makes people stand taller. Yes weve been poor, but we would have won both those games if he had played, putting us 4-0 and playing poor footy.. so lets make it Clear.
 

Caracas

Premium Gold
Apr 3, 2008
4,401
9,143
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man Utd, Celtic, Kildare
The good:

Jy- 23 touches, 7 clearances, 6 tackles and a goal and just about willed us over the line. I'm excited to see what happens when Cunnington comes back and they can't just sit someone like Worpel on him. In my opinion he has gone from a part time midfielder to a genuine gun of the competition, like top 10 type sh*t, in the matter of an offseason. Lightning hands, hard as a cat's head, hits the scoreboard, tackles to hurt, moves well in congestion. He has all the tools and now all of the requisite hunger to be our top-line 10+ year midfielder. If he was wearing black and white stripes he'd be talked about as the next Judd - he'll be our next captain

Walker -for a bargain basement pickup he's going to be arguably our most important selection. Just gets it done, he had 17 touches as a key back. Him and Tarrant are colossuses back there and they must sit back and wonder what the fu** the midfield are doing that it's coming down there at a million miles an hour 70 times a game

Tarrant - I love him and I hope he never retires

Goldstein - out and out superstar. Ceglar basically had to infringe at every ruck contest to stop Goldy beating him over the head with his own arm. Of all the reasonable points Clarkson made in his post match press conference, his whinging about ruck contest frees was unwarranted as if Ceglar hadn't infringed, Goldy would have had 140 hitouts. I heard over the weekend three separate ruckmen referred to as the best in the game (Grundy,Gawn, NicNat) then Ryder, Marshall and O'Brien from Adelaide mentioned as the next sort of best.They're even talking up Pittonet from Carlton (who has been very good) now. Goldstein will never get the plaudits nor the recognition he deserves but honestly who cares?

Higgins- much improved from last week. Noticeably took on a little more of the grunt work but still down on his regular output despite having 30 touches. Think maybe he realised he needed to step up with Cunners out. Hopefully this can be a build up week for him for the rest of the season

McDonald - think he was on Breust? Outside that first goal which was Atley's fault, he made Breust largely invisible. He is having a really good season despite what people may think. I think we need to lower our expectations from "McDonald was selected with pick 8 ergo he must be a bonafide midfield gun" to "McDonald was recruited with pick 8 and he is going to develop into a really good defensive lockdown halfback/back pocket who can make the opposition's best small forward disappear". If you could have drafted peak Nick Smith from Sydney with pick 8, would you have done it? I probably would have.

Taylor- I just look at him now and think. fu**. What is it going to be like in two or three years? He appears to have the good mix of arrogance, natural ability and talent that makes for really outstanding half forwards. I see a bit of early-career Michael Walters in him- there when the game is to be won, but really dangerous around goals and able to jump on people's heads. Walters has developed into a genuine midfielder and that's where Taylor isn't quite at yet, but he will influence games by himself when the time is right. I loved the call from someone on here about "true stars want the ball in their hands when the game is there to be won" and I think that says it all about Taylor

Mahoney - nice cameo debut. Loved his little three-handball play to get Hall's goal. Seems to know where to be and how to get there in good time. Will be a player but needs time to adjust to the speed of the game. Certainly more positive than negative

Thomas last quarter - someone get him angry every week. Last quarter just went to another level. The mark that ended up with a free to Brown and a goal. The left foot snap, fu**. Seemed to be everywhere and almost willed us to a win along with Simpkin. You salivate about what he could be and lament his almost non-involvement in the game for the first three quarters and then you see it all come together in the last quarter and phwoar. I think he needs to be played closer to goal for the rest of the season and then get him super fit, training with Jy in the off season. This isn't his season to blow the doors off, that's the second half of next season and then 2022 onwards

Dumont - seemed to have kept Scully to 10 touches while getting 22 of his own? Or was he on Henderson? Doesn't matter. He's keeping Bailey out of the team. A really good wingman who rarely makes mistakes.

The bad

Brown- not really his fault when theres no Larkey to draw a second defender, no Zurhaar doing much of anything at all, no decent delivery from the midfield because they're getting flogged and having to pump it in. But he does have to be better and jump at the footy with two hands. Even if he tries to fly with two hands and only gets one up, it may prompt umps to pay the holding the arm free kick. He is infringed on nearly every time down the ground and its a bizarre blindness from the umpires that we need to learn to deal with. Thought he did his best to try and get involved in the game but he needs Larkey so badly it's not funny

Ziebell -I feel really bad because he is the heart and soul and very clearly wants nothing more than to be giving everything for the team but he's so clearly not 100%. Watching him trail Sicily (quite possibly the worst match up for him just quietly) into contests by 30 metres and losing his footing every time he tried to physically impose himself on the game is actually hurting me as a supporter and a longtime fan of Jack. I love him for what he is and has been for the club, but he isn't a midfielder (Jy, Cunners, Higgins, Polec, Anderson are all better options) and with a full contingent of forwards (Brown Larkey Zurhaar Thomas Taylor Wood etc) he doesn't fit there either. If we dropped JMac we certainly arent going to trial Jack as a backman because I don't think he has the footskills to succeed there either. I don't know where he fits and its almost a blessing that he is injured because it means we don't have to make a hard call for a little bit. But I am extremely sad that this is where we are at with a man who has genuinely given everything for the club

Pittard - ah yes now I see what those Port blokes were banging on about. Again the backline (Pittard/Atley specifically) performance has to viewed in the lens of some pretty ordinary efforts up the field, but Jasper's disposal seems to be pretty crap over the last few weeks. I have faith that he will right the ship in the weeks to come. At least there is some passion

Atley- Don't know where we go from here. 201 games and none of them have been matchwinning. I will flog myself to the left foot goal against Sydney in the final until the day I die but youd' almost drop him for JMac this week


The meh:

Polec - meh

Xerri -yeah OK big fella, there's a future there, but meh to start with

Anderson - gosh he tries hard. I really do love him but he can't kick the prune. Until his bad outweighs his good, he stays

Hall - the human manifestation and personification of human blue balls crossed with a 50% mark on an important test

Ahern - better this week than last but what is his actual role in the team

Marley - Needs a few weeks

Hayden -love that he is getting an apprenticeship on the best the game has to offer. Heeney against the Swans and then some time on Breust. Only goin to be a better player for it
Kyron gets a “meh” - harsh, very harsh... Or, am I reading it wrong? Does meh stand for “Mighty Effort Hayden”? 🤣


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andana

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 1, 2008
7,189
8,078
Thailand
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Number one priority now and has been for several years is a quick half back that can hit a target.

So many instances yesterday where coming out of defensive 50 we miss a target by a few metres, ball hits the deck, invites pressure that shouldnt have been there and the ball goes straight back inside our 50.
Someone with a bit of size also, about 190cms. Maybe EVW can come good.
 

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