Discussion Potential Coach Replacements

[Squizz]

While Lyon was good, there were chinks there, some of which were probably addressed by the club, with the appointment of Pelchen. Youth development seemed to take a backseat. His team selection seemed overly conservative, and sometimes downright peculiar.

Absolutely there were chinks.

His approach to the younger players was bizarre at times. Archer gets one game. Johnson gets a half. But Cripps and Siposs can play until they get nasty injuries.

WTF with the roles of Lynch, Archer and Eddy. Just WTF.

I didn't even see Lyon at the VFL until this year.

Walsh. OMFG.

The 2008 draft decision to target tall forwards. Holy crap.

His obsession with drafting guys who can play off half back.

The Lovett and Ball debacles speak for themselves.

The "retirements" were extremely embarrassing for the club and the players involved. Pretty shameful in retrospect.

Re-signing Brad Howard and then putting him on the rookie list.

I could go on, but clearly things can be done differently.

 

[Fehring]

Absolutely there were chinks.

His approach to the younger players was bizarre at times. Archer gets one game. Johnson gets a half. But Cripps and Siposs can play until they get nasty injuries.

WTF with the roles of Lynch, Archer and Eddy. Just WTF.

I didn't even see Lyon at the VFL until this year.

Walsh. OMFG.

The 2008 draft decision to target tall forwards. Holy crap.

His obsession with drafting guys who can play off half back.

The Lovett and Ball debacles speak for themselves.

The "retirements" were extremely embarrassing for the club and the players involved. Pretty shameful in retrospect.

Re-signing Brad Howard and then putting him on the rookie list.

I could go on, but clearly things can be done differently.

So, on balance, Squizz. More good that he's gone, or more bad?

 

[saintwazza]

List them here. That Nettlefold interview has just about convinced me Ross is leaving

Great call by saintsrfreak.At least we started the search a few days early!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Absolutely there were chinks.

His approach to the younger players was bizarre at times. Archer gets one game. Johnson gets a half. But Cripps and Siposs can play until they get nasty injuries.

WTF with the roles of Lynch, Archer and Eddy. Just WTF.

I didn't even see Lyon at the VFL until this year.

Walsh. OMFG.

The 2008 draft decision to target tall forwards. Holy crap.

His obsession with drafting guys who can play off half back.

The Lovett and Ball debacles speak for themselves.

The "retirements" were extremely embarrassing for the club and the players involved. Pretty shameful in retrospect.

Re-signing Brad Howard and then putting him on the rookie list.

I could go on, but clearly things can be done differently.

I always got the impression that he didnt like "NO".
"we will pick tall forwards" , " But Ross this draft sucks for forwards and there are some fantastic mids in the mix "
"we will pick tall forwards"

"I want Luke Ball to stay", " But Ross he says he's going anyway and if we dont trade we may get nothing".
"I want Luke Ball to stay"

 

[UnfinishedBusiness]

St Kilda won't pursue Malthouse, according to Nettlefold

 

[ash_78]

Greg Denham said on SEN that the Saints will go after Choco Williams.

Nevertheless, thoughts? I've always considered him a class A tosser b/c of the 2004 GF aftermath, which arguably set the rot in down at Alberton. Nevertheless, he can obviously coach.

You definitely don't want Choco. Unless of course you relish the thought of playing an unaccountable, forward-running style of football and placing individuals and egos above team ethos. It would essentially be the total pendulum swing away from the values Lyon implanted at the club. Your administration is smarter than that.

It feels from the outside like your club is at a crossroads - do you appoint a promising novice coach with a mandate to wipe the playing stocks clean and build long-term towards the next premiership? Or do you appoint an experienced coach with a view to jagging a flag in the next 1-2 years? Or is there a 3rd option?

Would love to know what the sentiment is from you guys.

 

[karmafree]

Her I am in my drug induced stupor dragging myself out of bed to watch Vanessa read the weather to me and start my day on a positive, what do I get but Paul telling me that Ross has left for the Dockers!!!!!! What the..
OK the fact the St Kilda Football club "made" Ross Lyon means sweet FA to him. I have been one of his big supporters, mainly based upon the success that the players, with him have delivered. After decades of pain. Loyalty means not a drop to him well on your horse buddy. Grab your dollars and I hope like hell the Dockers never win a flag under your direction. Any one know of a tantrik, voodoo witchdoctor type of person who can cast a spell I am willing to chip.
Who to appoint?
Really it has to be Tudor. He has achieved success at all the clubs he is involved with, knows the club and players. If he is passed I like Ayers.
Now where is Vanessa. Shit its too late. Time for a double dose of oxy's.
Carn' the Saints. Honestly did we expect anything different?

 

[Sainterz12]

I always got the impression that he didnt like "NO".
"we will pick tall forwards" , " But Ross this draft sucks for forwards and there are some fantastic mids in the mix "
"we will pick tall forwards"

"I want Luke Ball to stay", " But Ross he says he's going anyway and if we dont trade we may get nothing".
"I want Luke Ball to stay"

"I want Lovett", "But Ross he's on criminal charges and it's our first round pick which we could probably use to get someone like Nat Fyfe."
"I want Lovett"

"Put Raph Clarke in the team", "But Ross hes an absolute spud and we have many good youngsters who could take his spot."
"Put Raph Clarke in the team"

 

[mjchammer]

I dont mind if Harvey is in charge of the pre-season.
Focus on Skills and Fitness - he can do it blindfolded.
Gives time to go through a proper process for selection of a replacement.

Pelchen will be in charge of trades and drafts and no doubt will rely heavily on input from the assistant coaches, of which Harvey and King probably understand the capabilities of the players the most.
His difficulty will be in trying to guess the needs of a new coach. But in general our list shortcomings arent too bad.

The big question, do Westaway and co want to tank and rebuild, or soldier on?

Couldnt agree more on Harves being in charge of pre season, our skills this year were absolutely terrible & theres no better bloke in the game to get us back up to speed in this area.
We have a very exciting core group of players & I would love to see whoever takes over bring in a more attacking gameplan.
I think by Ross leaving he opened up the window for us on his way out, Carn the Saints!

 

[Amokura]

One factor that will limit any experienced coach wanting the job is Chris Pelchin. He is not respected and for the StKilda board to give him so much authority will stop the likes of Malthouse.

You will however end up with an untried assistant....so good luck, you deserve a good break.

Now for my tip...Hinkley

 

[Squizz]

So, on balance, Squizz. More good that he's gone, or more bad?

Fair question.

He was the right man for the time, and was on public record a number of times saying that he believed his game plan was designed for finals action.

Any team with Riewoldt, Fisher, Hayes, Milne, Schneider, Montanga, Goddard and Dal Santo (along with Gram, Gilbert, Kosi, a rejuvenated Gwilt and a pre-2010 Baker) should have been focussed on that.

It so nearly came off (and not just once).

I have to resect that.

But I rarely go to the games any more (but will watch on TV, sometimes more than once!). It's just painful to watch at times. I don't agree with Nettlefold - who basically said supporters should be happy if we are winning.

Whilst I don't have a problem if others are happy with that, I'm a footy lover at heart.

So:

We've developed a game plan that new players struggle to adapt to.

We also have some serious holes in our list - created in part by Lyon (2006 is another story).

Players don't take shots from 50 and the pockets, but we just can't seem to hit our forwards on the tit any more.

When players have the ball outside defensive 50 I don't expect us to chip backwards to the goalline to the player least adept at disposing of it successfully.

Would Lyon evolve? I guess he recognised his failings from early days, but more recently fell back into the trap of playing the same 25 week in week out.

Bad for list development, and bad for the health of players like Riewoldt who I think everyone suspected needed more than a week off to let his knee settle (in 2010 the mistake was made with Koschitzke).

I would have expected Lyon to stump up and continue on, but he would have also needed to free up the game plan.

So if he didn't feel that he could do it, I guess he's not the best fit. Just the manner of doing it - late season selection decisions, coaching errors, and the player "retirements". Just an awful way to conclude things.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You definitely don't want Choco. Unless of course you relish the thought of playing an unaccountable, forward-running style of football and placing individuals and egos above team ethos. It would essentially be the total pendulum swing away from the values Lyon implanted at the club. Your administration is smarter than that.

It feels from the outside like your club is at a crossroads - do you appoint a promising novice coach with a mandate to wipe the playing stocks clean and build long-term towards the next premiership? Or do you appoint an experienced coach with a view to jagging a flag in the next 1-2 years? Or is there a 3rd option?

Would love to know what the sentiment is from you guys.

I suspect, though I have no evidence to back it up, that the majority of prospective coaches coming in the door in the wake of Grant Thomas, told the club that they would be best to rebuild, and showed them a copy of their five year plan. One of the reasons that Lyon got the job was that he had the belief and the method that he could have a crack with the playing group available at the time.
I guess it depends what the prospective coaches put to them this time round.

I'd prefer this approach, a rebuild can take a long time, and I'd rather see a new coach have a crack with the current list before deciding if they are the right man to rebuild. Apart from that , good luck with a rebuild this draft.

While I think its important to avoid relatively inexperienced NAMES - Robert Harvey, James Herd, Michael Voss, I dont have a problem with an assistant coach who has done an appropriate apprenticeship.

 

[MCG-Unit]

You definitely don't want Choco. Unless of course you relish the thought of playing an unaccountable, forward-running style of football and placing individuals and egos above team ethos. It would essentially be the total pendulum swing away from the values Lyon implanted at the club. Your administration is smarter than that.

It feels from the outside like your club is at a crossroads - do you appoint a promising novice coach with a mandate to wipe the playing stocks clean and build long-term towards the next premiership? Or do you appoint an experienced coach with a view to jagging a flag in the next 1-2 years? Or is there a 3rd option?

Would love to know what the sentiment is from you guys.

Not sure what way they will go - now that they are weeks behind the other clubs seeking coaches.
Personally the only experienced coaches I'm interested in are Roos and Bomber Thompson (undecided on Williams and Mark Harvey)

Also there are several current assistants out there in the market. Maybe neither option will 'wipe the playing stocks clean...."

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Hope you guys don't mind me popping in with my thoughts, but Alan Richardson would be outstanding candidate . Was instrumental in the establishement of the Collingwood development program, which seen the first tracking of a number of it's current stars, currently senior assistant at Carlton and credited with alot of their improvement this season !

 

[MCG-Unit]

Hope you guys don't mind me popping in with my thoughts, but Alan Richardson would be outstanding candidate . Was instrumental in the establishement of the Collingwood development program, which seen the first tracking of a number of it's current stars, currently senior assistant at Carlton and credited with alot of their improvement this season !

Yes Alan Richardson would be a very good candidate, not many have mentioned him - along with other assistants in Scott Watters and Rob Harvey

Seemed to be a top fellow as well, met him when his electricians company had the contract at Tafe.

 

[StFly]

Hope you guys don't mind me popping in with my thoughts, but Alan Richardson would be outstanding candidate . Was instrumental in the establishement of the Collingwood development program, which seen the first tracking of a number of it's current stars, currently senior assistant at Carlton and credited with alot of their improvement this season !

If memory serves wasn't he in the system for a head coach a few years back and was overlooked or took his hat out of the ring early going? Because if so I doubt the market is such to get a bloke who wouldn't be committed to the role for the duration of the initial contract. (think it was for the Essendon job?)

Anyway, have we heard more on that rumor that Berbakov also walked out yet? (my interest being purely that he's a Sunbury bloke considering we've recycled a fair few assistants recently)

 

[Persevering Saint]

SO glad we didn't go for Malthouse. What happened the LAST time we chose as our new coach the guy who'd just beaten us in a Grand Final!?

 

[Freddy Bassett]

It will come down to Sanderson, McCartney and Richardson.... They all have juicy odds at the moment... Make some money gentlemen

 

[Half Back Pocket]

It will come down to Sanderson, McCartney and Richardson.... They all have juicy odds at the moment... Make some money gentlemen

It will come down to what we can afford. There will be no Million Dollar contracts on offer.

I think the 3 above...with Burns, Tudor and Neeld.

 

[Patty_Moz]

Hope I'm not intruding guys but just thought that you guys could do worse than look at Mark Harvey.

I know it would be a bit strange but if Goddard goes to GWS I'd say that the Saints will definitely be moving towards a rebuilding phase and Harvey did wonders overturning our list in the time he was at Freo, this is probly his best asset, he leaves Lyon with a very good list.

He probly isnt the best tactician tho and if you still believe that you are genuine flag contenders then he probly isnt the right coach for your squad but if rebuilding is the way you think you would go then I'd definitely give Harvey an interview at least.

 

[L_W_P]

Not sure that Tudor even wants to be a head coach. I always though he was content with being a career assistant??

In an ideal world -

Head Coach - Alan Richardson
Snr Assist - Dean Laidley
Forwards - Leigh Tudor
Midfield - Robert Harvey
Defenders - Max Hudgton
Rucks - Steven King
Recruiting - Chris Pelchen.

These guys would be able to see us through a very quick clean out and rebuild I think. Core group of McEvoy, Steven, Armitage, Cripps, Lynch, Ledger, Walsh and Siposs. Finals again by 2015, flag contention from 2016 onwards

To me the biggest question is Goddard. The jungle drums have been beating for a while. He will be 30 by the time we get back to the top if all goes well. He has to ask himself; Do I hang on here long enough to have a shot with this group in my twilight years OR do I look for a trade to a better placed team now and help setup myself and get the Saints some compo?

Going to be yet another MASSIVE off season for this mob

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Not sure that Tudor even wants to be a head coach. I always though he was content with being a career assistant??

In an ideal world -

Head Coach - Alan Richardson
Snr Assist - Dean Laidley
Forwards - Leigh Tudor
Midfield - Robert Harvey
Defenders - Max Hudgton
Rucks - Steven King
Recruiting - Chris Pelchen.

These guys would be able to see us through a very quick clean out and rebuild I think. Core group of McEvoy, Steven, Armitage, Cripps, Lynch, Ledger, Walsh and Siposs. Finals again by 2015, flag contention from 2016 onwards

To me the biggest question is Goddard. The jungle drums have been beating for a while. He will be 30 by the time we get back to the top if all goes well. He has to ask himself; Do I hang on here long enough to have a shot with this group in my twilight years OR do I look for a trade to a better placed team now and help setup myself and get the Saints some compo?

Going to be yet another MASSIVE off season for this mob

Gwilt?

If Tudor wasnt ambitious why would he not have been content coaching for Geelong. I got the idea that was the reasoning of him journeying from club to club.

 

[L_W_P]

Gwilt?

If Tudor wasnt ambitious why would he not have been content coaching for Geelong. I got the idea that was the reasoning of him journeying from club to club.

Out of sight and out of mind mate.

I just had a look online. Jimmy is 25. Would be into his later years by the time we challange again and I would hope that he would be playing the Sam Fisher role by then. For all the talk about a wealth of defenders, we seem to struggle to be honest. Dawson and Blake may not survive the cull and Jimmy is out for the year. Leaves us with... Simpkin and Walsh?? Play Fisher as a key back? So many questions for the new coach to think about.

I'm not saying I would be against Tudor. If we can get them then I say go for it. I just always thought he was happy to go from club to club, learn a few things along the way, and basically make himself invaluable as an assistant.

I don't know the guy personally. Just my .02c

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Out of sight and out of mind mate.

I just had a look online. Jimmy is 25. Would be into his later years by the time we challange again and I would hope that he would be playing the Sam Fisher role by then. For all the talk about a wealth of defenders, we seem to struggle to be honest. Dawson and Blake may not survive the cull and Jimmy is out for the year. Leaves us with... Simpkin and Walsh?? Play Fisher as a key back? So many questions for the new coach to think about.

I'm not saying I would be against Tudor. If we can get them then I say go for it. I just always thought he was happy to go from club to club, learn a few things along the way, and basically make himself invaluable as an assistant.

I don't know the guy personally. Just my .02c

Lynch would also be worth a shot in a role he dominated in at VFL, not that RL noticed, plus I have high hopes for Ferguson.

 

[Squizz]

The club would be stupid to ditch Archer who is quick for his size and seems to be holding up well at full back (when Walsh was moved into the ruck and forward).

Isn't one grab enough with his marking to make it as a forward at this stage. He's a long kick though and has courage and the ability to run games out.