Review Pr(O)logue Round, 2024 - Brisbane Lions vs. Carlton

[Kernel Kurtz]

This is impressive. More emotive than anything we'd get from Fages I imagine, who's always relatively measured and defensive of the players. But, as I say, it's only words for now.



Hopefully his team mates are able to accept this criticism in the constructive manner it's intended, rather than taking it personally.

Lachie sounds like he is pissed.
I like it.
Let's hope there was some ownership from the players that he is refering to.

 

[Elixuh]

Look at the positives.

Last year we turned up for 0% of the game against Port in our first game.

This year we turned up for almost a half.

Next year the sky is the limit (or four quarters, whichever comes first)!

 

[M Malice]

Have been thinking of giving it a go.

My advice would be don't go cold Turkey Carnivore overnight, gradually over a few weeks cut out your seed oils, junk/takeaway food first, then processed carbs eg. cereals, pasta, frozen meals.. Veges/fruit... dairy. Transition will be harder depending on how much sugar and carbohydrates you have been consuming, the more the harder.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I don't know if we were prepared for this scenario but why we had guys flying for a mark in a big pack when the ball was 5 yards out and all someone had to do was get a hand to it whack it through to me showed a worrying lack of awareness and selfishness.

Hopefully this has been pointed out.

We've been over and over this game. It's just one of those things that happen and we learn. If we'd won and still lost Kiddy it would've felt like a loss anyway.

Yeah I mean hindsight is a wonderful thing but if you want to do situational training there's a truckload of scenarios you have to think about:

• 13+ points down
• 12 points down
• 11 points down
• 8-10 points down
• 7 points down
• 6 points down
• 5 points down
• 2-4 points down
• 1 point down
• Scores level
• 1 point up
• 2-4 points up
• 5 points up
• 6 points up
• 7 points up
• 8-10 points up
• 11 points up
• 12 points up
• 13+ points up

And THEN you multiply all those by the time frame you have left, ie:

• Less than 10 seconds
• 10-30 seconds
• 30-60 seconds
• 1-2 minutes
• 2-5 minutes
• 5-10 minutes

Etc

And then you multiply all that by the state of play

• Centre bounce
• They get a free kick
• We get a free kick
• Around the ground ball up
• Throw ins
• Ball in our front half (both when we have it or when they have it)
• Ball in their front half (both when we have it or when they have it)

When you really think about it like that, it's a fair effort that Collingwood have got to where they are under McRae so quickly. I mean we're talking NFL levels of granularity here, where wide receivers are now expected to KNOW to (rather than score an easy touchdown) run out of bounds at the 1 yard line when there's 1:50 left on the clock, you have the lead or are down by less than 3, you have already picked up the first down AND the opposition has no time outs. That's a LOT for an NFL player to think about on the fly, and without a 40 second play clock I'd imagine this stuff is even harder to learn and implement in the AFL. You could spend multiple summers on this stuff and not get through it all.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I don't know if we were prepared for this scenario but why we had guys flying for a mark in a big pack when the ball was 5 yards out and all someone had to do was get a hand to it whack it through to me showed a worrying lack of awareness and selfishness.

Hopefully this has been pointed out.

We've been over and over this game. It's just one of those things that happen and we learn. If we'd won and still lost Kiddy it would've felt like a loss anyway.

In a practical sense tho, I guess if you have a bit of wherewithal in the coaches box, you have a good 80-90 seconds from the time McKay takes the mark to the next centre bounce. You get a message out, via the runner, that obviously you want to get quick territory, but if it's a slow play (like we had), don't try to be a hero, just get a score. Get out to the forward line "a point is better than nothing".

 

[Gadzorks]

The first step to redemption, progress and improvement. But that's all it is. Words for now.

'Haven't achieved anything yet': Neale sprays 'lazy', selfish Lions - 'Haven't achieved anything yet': Neale sprays 'lazy', selfish Lions

"...Shitting on your teammates.."

Go Lachie - improvement is needed in infield attitude and has to come from the playing group. Coaches don't run that.

Love Lachie just getting it out there. It's the leadership we need.

And yes a 5% drop by half a dozen players will cost games against any team.

 

[Gadzorks]

This is impressive. More emotive than anything we'd get from Fages I imagine, who's always relatively measured and defensive of the players. But, as I say, it's only words for now.



Hopefully his team mates are able to accept this criticism in the constructive manner it's intended, rather than taking it personally.

If there is vision you can't take it personally. Because you did slack off.

Agree that some people can take offence at message delivery style, but elite athletes wanting to win are pretty good at focusing on the message.

 

[Dalions]

"...Shitting on your teammates.."

Go Lachie - improvement is needed in infield attitude and has to come from the playing group. Coaches don't run that.

Love Lachie just getting it out there. It's the leadership we need.

And yes a 5% drop by half a dozen players will cost games against any team.

It was more than 5%

 

[Chief]

 

[martinson]

In a practical sense tho, I guess if you have a bit of wherewithal in the coaches box, you have a good 80-90 seconds from the time McKay takes the mark to the next centre bounce. You get a message out, via the runner, that obviously you want to get quick territory, but if it's a slow play (like we had), don't try to be a hero, just get a score. Get out to the forward line "a point is better than nothing".

100%. The Blues players were never going to let the ball go over the back . Maybe I'm expecting too much to think the experienced players we had down there would intuitively know this , instead of flying for a spec and the ball spilling to the opposition.

One thing is now clear. Lachie is 3KZ.

 

[Squizz89]

Whack!

 

[Grasshopper17]

Ha. "We don't want to be that team that goes back into its shell". (Paraphrasing slightly)

Right so that must be why we decide to drop a spare man back behind the ball at the end of a quarter when when we have all the momentum.



How you do something is how you do everything.

 

[BuntonRules]

Interesting take on our 3rd quarter on "On the Couch". The players knew at 1/2 time that kiddy had done his ACL. That was enough to flatten us in the first 1/2 of the quarter, which set up the loss.

 

[On the quiet]

Look at the positives.

Last year we turned up for 0% of the game against Port in our first game.

This year we turned up for almost a half.

Next year the sky is the limit (or four quarters, whichever comes first)!

I think 'Tom 14' might be onto something we seem to be slow starters so away game first up would be preferred, but I believe whilst there might be some minor adjustments the OR with the northern teams is likely to stay so home game first up next year.

 

[On the quiet]

I don't know how to put a still image up on big footy but reckon #33 from Carlton gave paynes arm a slight chop as he was marking the ball in front of goal with 54 seconds left in the game. Seen them paid before, but with less than a minute to go... maybe I am wrong, but was it a penalty? Not held long enough to be a mark, but possibly a penalty...probably not.

We will be better for the run, a few players probably a little underdone and Browny stated on the TV last night that players knew at half time Kiddy had most likely done an ACL. No excuses but seemed to affect some players.

Also as Fages has stated, Blues are a good side so we have dropped a game to a good side. We need to make up for it and beat Hawthorne at Marvel.

 

[3KZ is Football]

You know 3KZ, things are never as bad as they seem, but you just seem to be so negative on Fages, Payne, Starc and anyone else that does not meet Lesters standards.

As a point of interest have a look how easily McKay out-marks Lester down the ground in the first and fourth Qs, I acknowledge Lester is doing a fine job playing a role in the backline. He is a role player with a few cheap disposals.

By the way, Curnow scored 1 goal last year when playing Brisbane in Melbourne and that one goal was when Lester found himself marking Curnow.


Hope you are more positive with the kids you are coaching

What do you make of Neale’s comments today? Easy to shoot the messenger. Neale referred to the playing group as selfish and lazy. Who do you think he was referring to? He stated that the team had achieved NOTHING.

'Haven't achieved anything yet': Neale sprays 'lazy', selfish Lions

Co-captain Lachie Neale has hit out at the Lions' performance against the Blues

www.afl.com.au

Basically agrees with me and my assessment.

 

[martinson]

What do you make of Neale’s comments today? Easy to shoot the messenger. Neale referred to the playing group as selfish and lazy. Who do you think he was referring to? He stated that the team had achieved NOTHING.

'Haven't achieved anything yet': Neale sprays 'lazy', selfish Lions

Co-captain Lachie Neale has hit out at the Lions' performance against the Blues

www.afl.com.au

Basically agrees with me and my assessment.

I'm onto you 3KZ

You are Lachie Neale.

 

[On the quiet]

What do you make of Neale’s comments today? Easy to shoot the messenger. Neale referred to the playing group as selfish and lazy. Who do you think he was referring to? He stated that the team had achieved NOTHING.

'Haven't achieved anything yet': Neale sprays 'lazy', selfish Lions

Co-captain Lachie Neale has hit out at the Lions' performance against the Blues

www.afl.com.au

Basically agrees with me and my assessment.

In your eyes 3KZ probably believe he is referring to Payne, I would like to think he is referring to virtually the whole team for a an extremely poor 3rd Q. Perhaps the Kiddy injury had a negative influence on some. Payne copped a knock to the head late in the 2nd Q so maybe that affected him. I don't know. But I think we all agree he was off the pace in that second half, and needs to improve. Ironically though I think the umps might have missed an arm chop on payne right in front of goal with 54 seconds to go. Was it a penalty? probably not but seen them paid.

I was one of the early posters who believed in Wilmot (even though last year you were calling for him and payne and others to be dropped after the loss to the Dogs in March 2023) Wilmot is one of our most promising players.

I also spotted Kiddy's composure pretty early, and have been positive on Dev and yes positive on Payne, who IMO showed before he did his ankle about mid season in 2023, he was a reasonable player with plenty of upside.

IMO Payne is important to the backline, as he takes the 'big dogs' and allows Harris to peel off and intercept, if no Payne, then Harris is stuck 1 v 1, and whilst he is a very good backman, athletic talls such as Ben King etc can dominate.
Because Dizzy is often giving away height he tends to give away penalties, but I do like his endeavor.
We have seen what happens to Lester when taking on a KPF and he is a role player.
Tom Doedee is coming back from an ACL, but not ideal for him to take on the 'big dogs'

I think 3KZ, you believe if you keep being negative on a back (in the past it has been Adams, Andrews, Starc, but mostly Payne) that the coaching group will react to your posts.

Obvious you don't rate Payne, and just as obvious I do.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I'm onto you 3KZ

You are Lachie Neale.

I make the bullets, he fires them.

 

[3KZ is Football]

In your eyes 3KZ probably believe he is referring to Payne, I would like to think he is referring to virtually the whole team for a an extremely poor 3rd Q. Perhaps the Kiddy injury had a negative influence on some. Payne copped a knock to the head late in the 2nd Q so maybe that affected him. I don't know. But I think we all agree he was off the pace in that second half, and needs to improve. Ironically though I think the umps might have missed an arm chop on payne right in front of goal with 54 seconds to go. Was it a penalty? probably not but seen them paid.

I was one of the early posters who believed in Wilmot (even though last year you were calling for him and payne and others to be dropped after the loss to the Dogs in March 2023) Wilmot is one of our most promising players.

I also spotted Kiddy's composure pretty early, and have been positive on Dev and yes positive on Payne, who IMO showed before he did his ankle about mid season in 2023, he was a reasonable player with plenty of upside.

IMO Payne is important to the backline, as he takes the 'big dogs' and allows Harris to peel off and intercept, if no Payne, then Harris is stuck 1 v 1, and whilst he is a very good backman, athletic talls such as Ben King etc can dominate.
Because Dizzy is often giving away height he tends to give away penalties, but I do like his endeavor.
We have seen what happens to Lester when taking on a KPF and he is a role player.
Tom Doedee is coming back from an ACL, but not ideal for him to take on the 'big dogs'

I think 3KZ, you believe if you keep being negative on a back (in the past it has been Adams, Andrews, Starc, but mostly Payne) that the coaching group will react to your posts.

Obvious you don't rate Payne, and just as obvious I do.

Good post On the quiet.

My knock on Payne has been about his lack of physicality on the deck and commitment to playing body on body and his decision making. He does take a ‘big dog’ but that’s his role and he has the physique to do it. I’ve highlighted his lapses against Carlton earlier, so no point going over that again.

As far as our defence goes, our two most important players after the injury to Coleman, are Andrews and Lester. Andrews for his intercept marking and spoiling and Lester for his spoiling and work on the deck. If you watch closely, Lester is also pivotal in the way we transition out of defence, especially at the kick ins. It is a really underrated role, but a vital one. His physical desperation is matched by Gardiner’s and I believe he must be played back. Starcevich is a ‘junkyard dog’ but his disposal makes me nervous and McKenna gives us rebound, but he too can be a bit worrying with the ball in hand. Which brings us to Wilmot. With the injury to Coleman, he becomes a vitally important player. If he can step up and handle the extra pressure it would really help us. Prior too comes into calculations on a half back line / defensive winger.

Going back to where I started, I would drop Payne, because you can’t have a club leader and champion footballer like Neale saying the things he said today and not respond at the selection table if you are the coach. Neale wasn’t hanging out the Mulligans and neither should Fagan.

 

[martinson]

I make the bullets, he fires them.

Fages was never going to say anything. Last I heard he rated our performance as meeting all the stats criteria.

Lachie obviously reads BF and decided to take matters into his own hands.

And got the heads up from Fages to fire the bullets.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Fages was never going to say anything. Last I heard he rated our performance as meeting all the stats criteria.

Lachie obviously reads BF and decided to take matters into his own hands.

And got the heads up from Fages to fire the bullets.

Yeah, that presser was embarrassing. Either way, Neale’s statements forces Fagan’s hand a bit.

 

[martinson]

Good post On the quiet.

My knock on Payne has been about his lack of physicality on the deck and commitment to playing body on body and his decision making. He does take a ‘big dog’ but that’s his role and he has the physique to do it. I’ve highlighted his lapses against Carlton earlier, so no point going over that again.

As far as our defence goes, our two most important players after the injury to Coleman, are Andrews and Lester. Andrews for his intercept marking and spoiling and Lester for his spoiling and work on the deck. If you watch closely, Lester is also pivotal in the way we transition out of defence, especially at the kick ins. It is a really underrated role, but a vital one. His physical desperation is matched by Gardiner’s and I believe he must be played back. Starcevich is a ‘junkyard dog’ but his disposal makes me nervous and McKenna gives us rebound, but he too can be a bit worrying with the ball in hand. Which brings us to Wilmot. With the injury to Coleman, he becomes a vitally important player. If he can step up and handle the extra pressure it would really help us. Prior too comes into calculations on a half back line / defensive winger.

Going back to where I started, I would drop Payne, because you can’t have a club leader and champion footballer like Neale saying the things he said today and not respond at the selection table if you are the coach. Neale wasn’t hanging out the Mulligans and neither should Fagan.

I know you cop flak for Lester 3KZ but fwiiw I agree with you.

I've loved the way Froggy goes about it these last 20 or so games.

The scribes on here go out of their way to pick up any faults in his game but don't apply the same rigorous scrutiny to a few others who maybe could take a leaf out of his effort.

I know he's not the most gifted player going around but he makes the best out of what he has and has made himself a lot better than I ever thought he would be.

 

[Dalions]

Yeah, that presser was embarrassing. Either way, Neale’s statements forces Fagan’s hand a bit.

Those statements come after the review of the game so where do you think they came from?

 

[martinson]

Those statements come after the review of the game so where do you think they came from?

Tbh Dalions I reckon Fages woud be better off firing a truth bullet or two in his pressers which are pretty much feeding the chooks.

He doesn't have to go overboard or drop anyone in it but when we screw up completely like last week it all sounds a bit comical.