Game Day Practice Match Carlton v Hawthorn - February 21st 4.00PM @ Princes Park

[Blue and Blue]

Average pace, average agility, average kick placement. Improvement on Mullett, but I feel that we could have recruited better in terms of both his position on the list and that of Goddard, Gibbons/Bugg and Cottrell.

A lot better. On the bright side, our drafting ability in the first 3 rounds is much improved.

I will take a few averages over some of the below average disasters we have endured as players.
Bit by bit...little by little.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Average pace, average agility, average kick placement. Improvement on Mullett, but I feel that we could have recruited better in terms of both his position on the list and that of Goddard, Gibbons/Bugg and Cottrell.

A lot better. On the bright side, our drafting ability in the first 3 rounds is much improved.

Come on Jim, not everyone is going to be a jet.

We both know a successful side will have a number of average role players. If Newman is in our bottom 6 by 2020 we're looking good. Reliable foot soldier who allows the guns to fire.

 

[Jimmae]

I will take a few averages over some of the below average disasters we have endured as players.
Bit by bit...little by little.

The only 'successful' picks we've had after the third round from 2015-2018 are Williamson, Polson and Kerr. If you want to include the DFA period, you can throw in Wright. That's a lot of bites of the cherry for very little return.

That's a deplorable success rate when there's been plenty of state league players of repute in and around those selections, as well as superior athletic prospects. We clearly don't do enough scouting outside of the junior ranks and the existing AFL player pool, and that's a concern as our list matures and we need to extract more value as our pick position declines.

Come on Jim, not everyone is going to be a jet.

We both know a successful side will have a number of average role players. If Newman is in our bottom 6 by 2020 we're looking good. Reliable foot soldier who allows the guns to fire.

That's not the complaint here: I'm calling him a very average role player, which is better than who he replaced, but pretty poor value compared to casting the net a bit wider.

 

[gardiner stand]

Spot on.. we were just as average for a team looking to play finals

Looking to play finals? No chance Hawthorn plays finals in 2019 the list is looking mangled. As far as the practice match goes carlton as a team was underwhelming regardless of trialling players in different positions but individually I saw lots to like for our growth. For Hawthorn i saw nothing exciting from the youngsters although players like Sicily reaffirmed their class.

 

[Blue and Blue]

The only 'successful' picks we've had after the third round from 2015-2018 are Williamson, Polson and Kerr. If you want to include the DFA period, you can throw in Wright.

That's a deplorable success rate when there's been plenty of state league players of repute in and around those selections, as well as superior athletic prospects. We clearly don't do enough scouting outside of the junior ranks and the existing AFL player pool, and that's a concern as our list matures and we need to extract more value as our pick position declines.

I don't agree mate. I see it that we did the list building this way deliberately by bringing in short termers and lifting the level each time.
No speculative stuff just grab what comes cheap and give them a shot at it. Its pie in the sky to think there are dozens outside the system just waiting undiscovered as ready made stars. As for athletes...No thanks. Footballers first for me.

 

[Jimmae]

I don't agree mate. I see it that we did the list building this way deliberately by bringing in in short termers and lifting the level each time.
No speculative stuff just grab what comes cheap and give them a shot at it. Its pie in the sky to think there are dozens outside the system just waiting undiscovered as ready made stars. As for athletes...No thanks. Footballers first for me.

If that's the plan, we're grabbing too many short-term players. There's also plenty of kids out there who already have a good basic standard without that high ceiling, but still offer more athletic and footballing ability in the medium-to-long term than the guys we've picked.

Newman isn't the worst example of what we've been doing, but it's frustrating to see people celebrating him as a valuable pick up. He's not, and I know we're going to need a bit of luck with the development of the rest of the 22 if he's getting a spot.

 

[HARKER]

The only 'successful' picks we've had after the third round from 2015-2018 are Williamson, Polson and Kerr. If you want to include the DFA period, you can throw in Wright. That's a lot of bites of the cherry for very little return.

That's a deplorable success rate when there's been plenty of state league players of repute in and around those selections, as well as superior athletic prospects. We clearly don't do enough scouting outside of the junior ranks and the existing AFL player pool, and that's a concern as our list matures and we need to extract more value as our pick position declines.

We may not want to hear this, but it's hardly arguable.
All of understood we need some harder and more mature bodies with those deeper picks, but so far......we just haven't fared well.

The worst part about it though is the types we reached for. It didn't make sense before, it doesn't make sense now and it won't tomorrow.
Seems to me it's a case of train with the club and you're 90% there. It may not be, but just look at the results.

 

[Blue and Blue]

If that's the plan, we're grabbing too many short-term players. There's also plenty of kids out there who already have a good basic standard without that high ceiling, but still offer more athletic and footballing ability in the medium-to-long term than the guys we've picked.

Newman isn't the worst example of what we've been doing, but it's frustrating to see people celebrating him as a valuable pick up. He's not, and I know we're going to need a bit of luck with the development of the rest of the 22 if he's getting a spot.

I doubt that will continue after the next recruiting period...but lets see how this crop go before making any assumptions.
I do agree its likely too much enthusiasm too soon. Hopefully though it turns out the Newman fans are right. Same with Goddard etc.

 

[Blue and Blue]

We may not want to hear this, but it's hardly arguable.
All of understood we need some harder and more mature bodies with those deeper picks, but so far......we just haven't fared well.

The worst part about it though is the types we reached for. It didn't make sense before, it doesn't make sense now and it won't tomorrow.
Seems to me it's a case of train with the club and you're 90% there. It may not be, but just look at the results.

At the end of the season is the time to look at results, not now. Still early days. Thats the part that is hard ..the waiting with nothing but hope for comfort.

 

[Doro]

A factor to consider is that most of our recruiting network has been focused on the TAC cup and private school footy, not so much outside of the pointy end of the draft. We are back in the field with the bigger clubs, with bigger budgets in the search for bargains.

 

[Jimmae]

I doubt that will continue after the next recruiting period...but lets see how this crop go before making any assumptions.
I do agree its likely too much enthusiasm too soon. Hopefully though it turns out the Newman fans are right. Same with Goddard etc.

I've seen plenty, and plenty of the names I'm alluding to have left the club.

Let's not forget how many GWS cast offs we grabbed during this process as well. I suspect Williamson is the only one we're going to salvage anything from in the long term, but Polson may surprise if he figures out how to midfield at AFL level.

 

[tige19]

Looking to play finals? No chance Hawthorn plays finals in 2019 the list is looking mangled. As far as the practice match goes carlton as a team was underwhelming regardless of trialling players in different positions but individually I saw lots to like for our growth. For Hawthorn i saw nothing exciting from the youngsters although players like Sicily reaffirmed their class.

Love this

 

[tige19]

Don’t come on here questioning my logic. Burgoyne is borderline part timer in middle. Wingard not a midfielder and Scully won’t play in 2019 at all. We have the best player in the game to come in and any ******* ruckman plus fisher whose arguably our second best mid.

Good luck for 19 kiddo

 

[Robert Heatley]

You truly have no idea what you’re talking about.

GWS guys are the least of our problems- the screwing up of 8 consecutive drafts is what did the real damage.

SOS has done an incredible job with the s**t sandwich he started with.

Shouldn’t be too harsh on him, he’s just buying what a lazy media is selling him/her.

Tier 1 recruiting has been via draft, since SOS came on board, we’ve used that well.

Tier 2 is trades, we’ve done a good job with limited resources including GWS players. Plowman, Marchbank and Setterfield should be good players for us. Phillips and Pickett need to stop getting injured!

 

[My Hat]

The only 'successful' picks we've had after the third round from 2015-2018 are Williamson, Polson and Kerr. If you want to include the DFA period, you can throw in Wright. That's a lot of bites of the cherry for very little return.

Garlett?

I'd be interested to see how other clubs compare using the same criteria. Fourth round and beyond is going to be pretty speculative for everyone I'd imagine.

 

[Jimmae]

Garlett?

I'd be interested to see how other clubs compare using the same criteria. Fourth round and beyond is going to be pretty speculative for everyone I'd imagine.

Good point; missed him, though you could argue his ceiling was more of a known quality and thus not much of a scouting effort was required.

 

[Aphrodite]

Good luck for 19 kiddo

Seeya kiddo!

 

[Blue and Blue]

I've seen plenty, and plenty of the names I'm alluding to have left the club.

Let's not forget how many GWS cast offs we grabbed during this process as well. I suspect Williamson is the only one we're going to salvage anything from in the long term, but Polson may surprise if he figures out how to midfield at AFL level.

I will be happy right now to never see the words Greater Western Sydney and recruit connected again for us. But I dont see how else we would have got this far in the rebuild without GWS and that connection. I see Plowman as a beauty. Meat and potatoes backman for a good time to come. Marchbank is a good one. Paying the price of being thrown in the deep end and a body not yet ready for that. Polson has grit..we arent done with him yet. Keep the faith.

 

[Blue__Balls]

That's not the complaint here: I'm calling him a very average role player, which is better than who he replaced, but pretty poor value compared to casting the net a bit wider.

Like who, Jim? Who do you know for certain was better, available, affordable, and amenable? That's a lot of boxes need ticking, and I doubt you're in any real position to guarantee any given player meets them all.

It's easy to sit at the computer and say we should have done better. Hell, we did, we got McGovern and Setterfield as well. The core of it is that none of us know just how wide that net was cast, what we caught and what we chose to throw back.

Newman is a mature age player, versatile, runs hard, tackles hard, can kick the pill, has proven he can find the pill, and comes from a strong system. When we're looking for options with late picks that strengthen our list immediately, he's as good a candidate as you could realistically hope for. Maybe he wasn't on your wishlist, but I don't see how you can make a case to say he wasn't a reasonable player to take with a future pick in the 60s.

 

[AT97]

Good point; missed him, though you could argue his ceiling was more of a known quality and thus not much of a scouting effort was required.

I reckon Mcreadie could be a good one if he can get on the field.

 

[Soapy V]

Newman is a great pick up. Can play and will do his job week in week out. At 25 he is also the age we need.

I’ve been impressed by Goddard so far as well.

 

[skadoosh]

Like who, Jim? Who do you know for certain was better, available, affordable, and amenable? That's a lot of boxes need ticking, and I doubt you're in any real position to guarantee any given player meets them all.

It's easy to sit at the computer and say we should have done better. Hell, we did, we got McGovern and Setterfield as well. The core of it is that none of us know just how wide that net was cast, what we caught and what we chose to throw back.

Newman is a mature age player, versatile, runs hard, tackles hard, can kick the pill, has proven he can find the pill, and comes from a strong system. When we're looking for options with late picks that strengthen our list immediately, he's as good a candidate as you could realistically hope for. Maybe he wasn't on your wishlist, but I don't see how you can make a case to say he wasn't a reasonable player to take with a future pick in the 60s.

This. Unless you're in the inner sanctum, you have next to 0 idea of who we targeted, who we spoke to, who rejected us. Take Mitch Grigg for example, there was an article a few days ago saying he most likely would've said no to playing AFL again. All we know is what the end result is and whatever truths the media might report. Other than that, we don't know what happens behind closed doors.

 

[Soapy V]

Like who, Jim? Who do you know for certain was better, available, affordable, and amenable? That's a lot of boxes need ticking, and I doubt you're in any real position to guarantee any given player meets them all.

It's easy to sit at the computer and say we should have done better. Hell, we did, we got McGovern and Setterfield as well. The core of it is that none of us know just how wide that net was cast, what we caught and what we chose to throw back.

Newman is a mature age player, versatile, runs hard, tackles hard, can kick the pill, has proven he can find the pill, and comes from a strong system. When we're looking for options with late picks that strengthen our list immediately, he's as good a candidate as you could realistically hope for. Maybe he wasn't on your wishlist, but I don't see how you can make a case to say he wasn't a reasonable player to take with a future pick in the 60s.

I’d be interested to know how we have done with late picks compared to other sides?

We also have to consider list balance.

Names like Newman Garlett Williamson Kerr Macreadie Polson Lobbe Gibbons look good value to me so far.

Be interesting to see how BSOS Finbar Goddard Owies progress

3 drafts ago we started the rebuild and with not much to deal with. Achieved a lot IMO

 

[Eiffel 65]

Newman is a great pick up. Can play and will do his job week in week out. At 25 he is also the age we need.

I’ve been impressed by Goddard so far as well.

Thought Newman did an exceptional job defensively in one on one contests. Knows how to position himself and win the 50 50 ball. Really rate him and in all honestly, I think he'll be a more valuable pick up for us than McGovern.

I couldn't believe what I saw with Goddard. Thought he was really struggling based on some of the training reports. I was so impressed. It's only one performance but I don't believe there's much of a gap between Weitering and Goddard. At least defensively in one on one contests. Obviously Goddard didn't run out a full game so I don't know about his capacity to compete for four quarters, but I was presently surprised by what I saw.

What I want to know is why St Kilda didn't persist?

 

[Soapy V]

Thought Newman did an exceptional job defensively in one on one contests. Knows how to position himself and win the 50 50 ball. Really rate him and in all honestly, I think he'll be a more valuable pick up for us than McGovern.

I couldn't believe what I saw with Goddard. Thought he was really struggling based on some of the training reports. I was so impressed. It's only one performance but I don't believe there's much of a gap between Weitering and Goddard. At least defensively in one on one contests. Obviously Goddard didn't run out a full game so I don't know about his capacity to compete for four quarters, but I was presently surprised by what I saw.

What I want to know is why St Kilda didn't persist?

Goddard has been training well. He’s a big unit and was getting over some leg injury? Good back up as a minimum