Pre Finals bye and Qualifying Final winners - 1 game in 28 days

[catstorm]

Bullshit, take your loss like a man.
It's the first time in history first or second haven't made it with a final 8.

Maybe your sides weren't that good and just benefitted from having the only home ground advantage for the year.

My team directly benefited from it and I think it’s a problem.

in the 5 years since the pre finals bye qualifying final winners have gone 4-6, in the previous 16 seasons before that they went 28-4.

How can you not see there is an issue?

 

[Duskfire]

I don't really get it, what's the ******* point of the finals series if people are going to b*tch if the top 2 don't make it.

May aswell play first v second the after the HnA and then people won't have sh*t to complain about.

People aren’t bitching about the top 2 not making it; it’s happened many times before where they didn’t. People are bitching it’s a disadvantage having a bye, winning and then having another bye. The idea of a bye for the top 4 was to rest up players. But that rest get applied to everyone after the season. The argument is that having two byes so close to one another is disrupting.

Regardless of what people believe, the stats definitely show that it is negative, or at least it evens the playing ground more, as it has happened more times in the last four then almost all the previous AFL seasons combined. However, this could also be a case of the AFL just equalising.

 

[Clark G]

Either remove the pre-finals bye or have a finals system where there are no weeks off for all clubs.

 

[Whiskers]

The pre finals bye is an absolute joke.
I wasn’t even nervous prior to our 1st final knowing a win gets us another dreaded bye.
It simply does not help. We even led the tigers by 21 at HT last year without Hawkins and Duncan, some of that I believe was momentum playing week 2 and it should’ve been a larger gap.

If we did beat Port week 1, I’m confident Tigers would have knocked us out tonight but now I feel we are a chance to win the flag thanks to this pre finals bye and losing.

Scrap the bye

 

[Teen Wolf]

Or, just be smarter about your preparation. Excellent ratings for the Thursday night final ensures this alleged problem isn't likely to go away anytime soon. Clubs may not have adapted to the pre-finals bye yet, doesn't mean they can't figure it out in the future.

A team with the weekend off is wanting to stay in tip-top shape... Hmm, if only there was another team in the same position, then they'd be able to organise a match against each other to maintain full fitness? What a brainteaser. (Admittedly, it might not have been allowed this year. But, bigger picture, this is very solvable for clubs if they truly believe it's an issue.)

 

[juss]

Maybe a bye the week before the final round is the answer, as has been suggested.

For me that solves enough problems. With a bye week earlier, we could also finish round 22 on the Saturday to ensure all teams that extra day leading into finals.

 

[Jivlain]

Mmmmmmm, the bye was to our advantage against Richmond - younger side so advantaged by the recovery time, and getting Andrews back. So if not for that we might have instead gone into a PF in Adelaide off played seven games in five weeks, which seems a bit far in the opposite direction

I do prefer the idea of having a bye a week or two before the end of the H&A season.

 

[Golden_6]

The headline is hilarious. I guess you could look at it like that.

You could also say Lions played 3 games in 29 days, or Port played 3 games in 26 days.

People will find anything to complain about. The reality is that Port and Lions lost a home prelim final time to two teams who have been on the road all year, simple as that.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Nah we won both our flags with the week off, so did eagles. Port and Brisbane wondered all year why no one took them seriously, this weekend you found out.

Spot on post

 

[LordLucifer]

Maybe the last bye should be the second last week of fixtures..

How about the players "harden the feck up" and we don't have any bye near the end of the season ??

In fact don't have any byes at any time at all.

 

[JimmyBC]

I don't like the pre finals bye but I think had the week one results been flipped Richmond & Geelong would've handled another week off better than Port & Brisbane anyway, more seasoned finals units.

It's garbage prep for high pressure finals though regardless.

 

[maskmcgee]

Its not bitching about the top two making it, it disadvantages the teams that win the first week and the results indicate that.

No, the results indicate you never should of beaten Geelong, they had what 10 more scoring shots than you and you scored 3 miracle never to be repeated goals and Geelong missed a bunch of straightforward shots. You never should of won, that's what this exposed.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I don't like the pre finals bye but I think had the week one results been flipped Richmond & Geelong would've handled another week off better than Port & Brisbane anyway, more seasoned finals units.

It's garbage prep for high pressure finals though regardless.

Agree. Wonder if there is a need for a break it happens after the prelim and leading into the GF

 

[melanChronic]

While there is probably some issues with conditioning and fitness management having two byes in quick succession, I think the bigger factor is that having the week off during the finals used to be a significant advantage that rewarded the QF winners. They would be fresh whilst playing against teams who had just whacked 2 brutal finals on top of a long stretch without break in the H/A season.

Now that is pretty much nonexistent, as every finals team gets the chance to refresh and reset. The only reward for a QF win is the home ground in the PF.

The better and more experienced teams should get it done anyway, but it's a shame that the importance of performances over the home and away season (as the best way to win a QF, which was the best way to win a PF) are further diminished by the pre-finals bye.

 

[dean33]

Geelong and Richmond have been the two best teams this year. Percentage indicated this already. Not really such a strange result.
Just a shame there is no real fair dinkum game lengths to make it feel like a real finals series.
For me it feels like the Escort Cup in mid 80's on a Tuesday night at Waverley due to such short quarters and poor quality footy due to night conditions only.

Night series winners

Year	Winners	Grand Finalist	Scores	Venue	Crowd	Margin	Season Result
1977	Hawthorn	Carlton	14.11 (95) – 11.5 (71)	VFL Park	27,407	24	Preliminary Finalist
1978	Fitzroy	North Melbourne	13.18 (96) – 2.8 (20)	VFL Park	26,420	76	9th
1979	Collingwood	Hawthorn	12.8 (80) – 7.10 (52)	VFL Park	37,753	28	Grand Finalist
1980	North Melbourne	Collingwood	8.9 (57) – 7.12 (54)	VFL Park	50,478	3	Elimination Finalist
1981	Essendon	Carlton	9.11 (65) – 6.5 (41)	VFL Park	42,269	24	Elimination Finalist
1982	Swans	North Melbourne	13.12 (90) – 8.10 (58)	VFL Park	20,028	32	7th
1983	Carlton	Richmond	14.16 (100) – 10.6 (66)	VFL Park	32,927	34	Elimination Finalist
1984	Essendon	Sydney Swans	13.11 (89) – 5.8 (38)	VFL Park	30,824	51	Premier
1985	Hawthorn	Essendon	11.11 (77) – 10.8 (68)	VFL Park	24,812	9	Grand Finalist
1986	Hawthorn	Carlton	9.12 (66) – 5.6 (36)	VFL Park	19,627	30	Premier
1987	Melbourne	Essendon	8.10 (58) – 8.6 (54)	VFL Park	26,860	4	Preliminary Finalist

Must say I agree about the shorter quarters, it’s a joke. You also know once a team gets 2-3 goals up early in the last the game is effectively over as not enough time for trailing team to make up deficit. Also it has contributed to the low scoring, teams can keep their defensive structure in tact much easier for the entire game now as it doesn’t break down due to tiredness. I understood why it was brought in this year for the H&A rounds but should have been changed for finals.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Or, just be smarter about your preparation. Excellent ratings for the Thursday night final ensures this alleged problem isn't likely to go away anytime soon. Clubs may not have adapted to the pre-finals bye yet, doesn't mean they can't figure it out in the future.

A team with the weekend off is wanting to stay in tip-top shape... Hmm, if only there was another team in the same position, then they'd be able to organise a match against each other to maintain full fitness? What a brainteaser. (Admittedly, it might not have been allowed this year. But, bigger picture, this is very solvable for clubs if they truly believe it's an issue.)

As I said in my OP, teams had limited capacity to train and no real option for match practice this year which is why I thought it would especially be annissue

 

[Seeds]

4 wins out of 10 with pre finals bye vs 17 out of 18 without pre finals bye.

there is definately something in it.

i always thought it cost us the swans prelim a few years ago. We were so slow at the start.

 

[hutchy31]

I can understand why people think this is an issue, but sometimes stats don’t tell the whole story.

This year Geelong accounted for Port and Brisbane comfortably in home and away, and Richmond accounted for Geelong and Brisbane comfortably as well. Geelong best percentage, Richmond third. Not much between the top four, you could mount an argument that the best footy of this year has been played by these two teams.

Also, the premier the last three years has won their QF and still got there in the end. That’ll change this year but I’d argue the best two teams are there anyway.

 

[Young Gun #6]

I don't like the pre finals bye but I think had the week one results been flipped Richmond & Geelong would've handled another week off better than Port & Brisbane anyway, more seasoned finals units.

It's garbage prep for high pressure finals though regardless.

I doubt Geeling would’ve.

They are the worst side over the last 5 years coming off a bye. I don’t know if they’ve ever won a game after the week off..

Just checked....They are 1-15 with the week off since 2011

 

[PiesUserName]

They need to scrap it. Who cares if teams rest half their squad in round 23 and whether it affects the integrity of the betting industry.

 

[JayJ20]

I don't think it had an impact this year as Richmond and Geelong were clearly the best and most experienced teams, but the pre-finals bye needs to go. The point of having a break for the qualifying winners is to give them an advantage.

 

[GAS PANIC]

It was becoming farcical, teams who were lucky enough to have a guaranteed position in the 8 could rest players, giving them an advantage over teams who didn't, not to mention potentially gifting an advantage to the teams they were playing if they were fighting for spots as well.

Maybe a bye the week before the final round is the answer, as has been suggested.

Why should it matter if a team who has guaranteed their place in the top eight rests players against those who haven't in the last round of the h & a fixture? Yes, it is an advantage but it is one that the team has earned by winning more games than their opponent.

It was bought in purely to appease the gambling companies because teams effectively resting 3-4 of their best players had implications on people betting. It should be scrapped.

Interestingly prior to the bye's introduction no team from outside the top 4 had made a grand final in the current finals system (introduced in 2000). Since it's introduction we've had 2 teams make it from outside the top 4.

 

[footyfan1978]

Must say I agree about the shorter quarters, it’s a joke. You also know once a team gets 2-3 goals up early in the last the game is effectively over as not enough time for trailing team to make up deficit. Also it has contributed to the low scoring, teams can keep their defensive structure in tact much easier for the entire game now as it doesn’t break down due to tiredness. I understood why it was brought in this year for the H&A rounds but should have been changed for finals.

Yes, you are getting exactly what I meant and why I barely watched much of each game except towards the end as it all too predictable.
I was perfectly fine with the reasons for shorter quarters during the part of season all clubs playing as the schedule meant needed the flexibility but knowing the finals were going to have decent normal week to week breaks between finals meant to me, that the finals should have been fair dinkum finals games. Due to fact they are not , has meant they do not have the fair dinkum feel for me of finals. I grew up seeing the night footy series each year from February to May and you knew the quarters were shorter than fair dinkum games as they were played on a Tuesday night mid week and a totally different comp. But this is meant to be our real premiership season. There was no reason to not have fair dinkum 30 minute quarters. It has just cheapened the whole thing to me for the season which is a real shame.

But I am actually more worried about them trying to make shorter quarters be a regular thing. If that happens I will no longer be an AFL member in another twelve months. I not going to accept them devalue the game I grew up on and loved and pretend it is the same thing when it is becoming anything but. I will not spend money on it if this does not stop after this pandemic consciousness is over. They got 12 months to get our sport back to what I loved or it is over for me as a paying customer.

 

[footyfan1978]

I don't think it had an impact this year as Richmond and Geelong were clearly the best and most experienced teams, but the pre-finals bye needs to go. The point of having a break for the qualifying winners is to give them an advantage.

The winner of Qualifying finals advance to Preliminary Finals.
The fact they do not have to win a semi-final is an advantage. That does not change. The break itself is not the advantage or disadvantage of itself.
All finals systems have had teams advance to more important finals and skip other finals in past too.
The disadvantage is really only to footy fans having a week with no football.
That is why the pre-finals bye should go.

 

[magpiemaniac44]

It is a tough one. 1 week off is the perfect scenario but I don’t think you can have a system that disadvantages the QF winners.