Training Pre Season 21/22

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Agree about Soldo up to a point, bring him in for Gawn and co. Reckon Jack should play like Fitsch, smart and skilful and closer to goal.

100% agree on Jack. His best work is close to goals. Lynch is the one who needs to get on his bike. So much better at clunking marks high HF/wings. I hope Jack is organising deep and he'll continue with his ave goals/assists per game this season by doing that.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Cant believe the amount of people prepared to write of Jack and have him finish up after this year
He has just come off a 50 goal year where he finished 3rd in the coleman and just 8 goals short of winning his 4th medal

Alot is being talked about his athleticism and movement diminishing but jeesus he was never fast or relied on it but more used his footy nous and leap and its still better than 90% of fowards that are in their 20's

Very good chance he kicks 40+ goals in 2022 if he plays enough games and is rarely injured or suspended so no reason he wont and i can tell you that if h kicks 40+ goals he wont retire and shouldnt

He will most likely be plying for around $400k range which is about average AFL salary and for me he has a license to play as long as he likes so long as he is kicking his goals and giving leadership to the young boys.

305 games and im hoping he gets to 350+

 

[Muddiemoose]

Cant believe the amount of people prepared to write of Jack and have him finish up after this year
He has just come off a 50 goal year where he finished 3rd in the coleman and just 8 goals short of winning his 4th medal

Alot is being talked about his athleticism and movement diminishing but jeesus he was never fast or relied on it but more used his footy nous and leap and its still better than 90% of fowards that are in their 20's

Very good chance he kicks 40+ goals in 2022 if he plays enough games and is rarely injured or suspended so no reason he wont and i can tell you that if h kicks 40+ goals he wont retire and shouldnt

He will most likely be plying for around $400k range which is about average AFL salary and for me he has a license to play as long as he likes so long as he is kicking his goals and giving leadership to the young boys.

305 games and im hoping he gets to 350+

I’m certainly not writing Jack off but he’s definitely going to be a season by season approach for me

We have seen historically that the ledge comes for key position players quickly like with Nick Riewoldt and Roughie
One season it looks like they can go on forever and the next they are absolutely cooked

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

Stack and Cumberland working with some of our midfield group on the clubs Instagram stories




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[Grrr]

Cant believe the amount of people prepared to write of Jack and have him finish up after this year
He has just come off a 50 goal year where he finished 3rd in the coleman and just 8 goals short of winning his 4th medal

Alot is being talked about his athleticism and movement diminishing but jeesus he was never fast or relied on it but more used his footy nous and leap and its still better than 90% of fowards that are in their 20's

Very good chance he kicks 40+ goals in 2022 if he plays enough games and is rarely injured or suspended so no reason he wont and i can tell you that if h kicks 40+ goals he wont retire and shouldnt

He will most likely be plying for around $400k range which is about average AFL salary and for me he has a license to play as long as he likes so long as he is kicking his goals and giving leadership to the young boys.

305 games and im hoping he gets to 350+

I think he could have a very good season, but I don't think he should be playing as a key forward but more a clever forward. Last year he wasn't much chop up the ground, as he has been for the last 10 years, so play him deep and who knows how long he will go for.

 

[RJKTiger]

100% agree on Jack. His best work is close to goals. Lynch is the one who needs to get on his bike. So much better at clunking marks high HF/wings. I hope Jack is organising deep and he'll continue with his ave goals/assists per game this season by doing that.

Plus Jack is just way too old to be doing those K's now

 

[RJKTiger]

We want to know about training sessions not this armchair expert bull crap

Then get out of your armchair and go to training and stop hanging around a internet forum

 

[beema limapep]

We want to know about training sessions not this armchair expert bull crap

He says, posting from his experts armchair.

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

Based off his output in the second half of the season (I guess you could argue that the team couldnt be ****ed trying to score during that period), its only fair to have doubts about Jack in 2022 (I think it'll be his last)

Just hope he performs well in the first 6 weeks or so, dont want him have to go through what Roughy went through in his final year, playing VFL

 

[RJKTiger]

I'd like to judge Ross after a season as an inside mid, that's where he belongs & hopefully that's where he plays.

performed well enough to get that long & with Graham, Prestia, Cotchin & RCD already in front of him and Dow alongside him competing for the same role - along with Martyn, sonsie etc - i am not sure he is worth a season commitment to that role unless he can tear it up within a month.

Personally, i would rather put my time and energy into developing Graham, RCD, Dow, Sonsie before giving Ross the reigns. Realistically unless he can find another role to rotate through, he will struggle to get given the juicy chance you crave.

 

[Rubber Hips]

 

[captain blood 17]

We want to know about training sessions not this armchair expert bull crap

Lord of the Wings give the people what they want. FOR GODS SAKES MAN.

 

[smurfin]

Plus in the modern game it’s very difficult just to be decent at one position especially inside mid
You basically need to be in the elite tier to justify selection
With limited rotations, injury’s and just general tactics players need to be able to play basically any position if needed

Just ask Anthony Miles....

 

[RJKTiger]

Good post.

However, if you take the longer term view it looks a little different. JR will go soon, and Tom soonish. And we have drafted a potential A grade KPD in Gibcus. If the club is confident on Miller, and bullish on Biggie's potential then we have too many KPDs and not enough KPFs.

So yes, I am making some future prognostications, which are the hardest to make. But I can see the club sitting there feeling very overweight in one area and underweight in another.

I suspect that you are correct and the club is focusing on having the old firm of Jack and Tom on ground, with Noah as back up. But longer term we might have 3 or 4 KPDs and 0 or 1 KPF on the list. But if we can turn Balta into a KPF our stocks suddenly look really tasty. Anyway, that's what I suspect/hope.

I guess thats where everyone disagrees - it would be quite poor management from our team to spend 4 seasons developing Balta as a defender, get him to the point where he is in the top tier of KP defenders in his age group - just to move him down forward because we failed to re-sign Chol or CCJ. I am 100% in the "we need more KP forwards" boat - literally said it all pre-season to my usual amount of exhaustion - that we needed to recruit one, or at least a mature age back up to keep structure etc.

As far as we know with Gibcus, he could be a total dud. Or, he might play a few games up forward next season in the VFL and kick a bag and we will find out he is Tony Modra. He could do a knee in round 10 and never look the same. Point being, we need to make sure this kid can actually make it as a KPD before we start moving blue chip prospect players into unknown new positions etc

Making list management decisions on assumptions and not known facts can be a dangerous game. We know Balta has shown elite potential in the role we have spent 4 years developing him - to move him away from that due to the failure to re-sign others and on the assumption that our newest recruit is going to be superior is folly, especially when you consider that it usually takes 4 seasons before you actually know if the can pay up on that said "potential" .

We should just focus our drafting and free agency moves to getting the next Key position forward. We did that with Lynch for 2 flags and i think we have the market to do the same again. Time to work on the King brothers, Nick Blakey etc & also hope Samson Ryan can come on a bit more. I get the romantic notion of Balta up forward and actually have said it myself over the years, but the kid has shown he can be an elite defender and with Rance, Astbury, Grimes, Houli & Tarrant all certain to be gone within 2 years - i just don't see why we think we have the luxury to move Balta to be a permanent forward

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

Guys in the background looking on like




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[tiger_tough]

Is dion in the camp? Haven't seen him.

 

[Jozzy]

Is dion in the camp? Haven't seen him.

He put up on Instagram that he was a groomsmen at a wedding, that could explain why he hasn’t gone on the camp?

 

[richoatthedisco]

I’d love Balta to be our permanent 2nd ruck ala Luke Jackson. My only worry is he’s only 194cm and Jackson is nearly 200cm.
Big challenge in giving away 6cm each week….

It's 3cm. Balta is 196.

If w did that you're talking about a team with Riewoldt, Lynch, Balta, Nankervis, Soldo, Tarrant and Miller which is way too tall. Also would require a drastic change in our gameplan to be able to pull it off

There is no such thing as too tall. There is too slow, there is too static, but neither is an issue for Balta and Miller. Both are yards quicker than Caddy or Aarts.

The only time too tall applies is for e.g. in the phrase, "Good lord, old chap! With that Balta fellow up forward Richmond are too tall for our defence, and exposing Jake Lever for the zone-off fraud he is. Sherry?"

he is a better Centre bounce ruck then Nank. With our diabolical clearance stats Soldo can go a long way to fixing them. Before he got hurt his around the ground work was getting better and better. Was pushing back taking marks and the odd sneak fwd.

Nankdo is plan A, but there will be times one or both is not fit, suspended for some bullshit, or needs a rest. With Chol and CJ gone and Samson still raw, Balta is the man.

With the stand rule now there's less emphasis on having small defensive forwards like we've had with George and Aarts. Teams just waltz out of defence because the AFL have made it much harder to lock the ball in our forward line like we used to. You can't even apply pressure on the mark anymore. That's the one big thing they wanted to change because they hated teams like us that could keep the pressure on and lock the ball in their forward line for repeat entries and repeat shots.

There has to be a change and three rotating tall forwards would create a nightmare. Imagine oppos trying to match up on Jack, Lynch and Balta with Dusty, Shai, Baker, Edwards and probably Stack (perhaps even George) creating havoc at ground level. There's also MRJ and Sonsie waiting in the wings doing their apprenticeships.

Why wouldn't we try this when there's so much KPD depth for the next couple of years and from all reports Gibcus is a ready made intercepting third tall. Tarrant, Grimes, Gibcus, Broad, Miller, Biggie and even Vlaus who can play third tall at a stretch give us the opportunity to groom Balta for Jack's eventual retirement and provide a tough match up. The answer to our KPF issues is right in the palm of our hand imo.

Perhaps the MC see it that way too as he's been training with the forwards...if this is the case and Tarrant stays fit and capable of locking down, then his recruitment will be a master stroke allowing Balta time to grow into the role. If you don't keep changing and trying things at this level you get left behind pretty fast.

Also, where is Jack's replacement coming from ? The draft ? A free agent at $1M a year ? It will have to be an 18yo kid who is untried and will have to fill out in the twos, an undiscovered unlikely gem already tried sitting in the twos at another club (Weideman/Riccardi yuk) or a young gun at another club (Ben King etc) that will cost us a mint when we already have a powerful, athletic young gun with a booming kick and great hands that we have developed, is superior at the level, knows our game style and is there under our noses already learning off Jack and Lynch.

This started as a joke, a running gag and now might well be the answer to our prayers, languishing down at full back. Balta is a weapon but he's unused as a weapon currently. We see glimpses when he's on the ball or gets up the ground anywhere near the 50. Get him more involved. He's wasted as a shut down defender.

KPDs are way easier to find than KPFs. Even if he's tried there and it doesn't work out, we're back exactly the same position - having to go to the draft or recruit in a big name that I wonder if we can afford.

Balta could be anything...he should be given the chance to prove it.

Nailed it.

 

[Jozzy]

It's 3cm. Balta is 196.

For what it’s worth the club have had him listed at 194cm for some time now.

 

[sregit]

Cant believe the amount of people prepared to write of Jack and have him finish up after this year
He has just come off a 50 goal year where he finished 3rd in the coleman and just 8 goals short of winning his 4th medal

Alot is being talked about his athleticism and movement diminishing but jeesus he was never fast or relied on it but more used his footy nous and leap and its still better than 90% of fowards that are in their 20's

Very good chance he kicks 40+ goals in 2022 if he plays enough games and is rarely injured or suspended so no reason he wont and i can tell you that if h kicks 40+ goals he wont retire and shouldnt

He will most likely be plying for around $400k range which is about average AFL salary and for me he has a license to play as long as he likes so long as he is kicking his goals and giving leadership to the young boys.

305 games and im hoping he gets to 350+

Hooray! Finally someone who is not retiring Jack R before the season plays out. I think Jack has 2 seasons left in him at least. He kicked 50 goals with very little supply from a very ordinary midfield and provided our midfield is at least competitive, then he'll be around the 50 mark again. Should his form not be up to standard then retirement looms but he's been a star and I don't think he's cooked yet.

 

[JR82]

why wouldn't Soldo get back?? i dont understand this line of thinking. He is training and moving well. Not sure why people are so quick to write him off.

IMO When both are fit Soldo is our #1 ruck & Nank will feast on any "2nd ruck" any opposition can throw at us. It worked a treat in '19 & would have again in '20 had Soldo not been shoved into a marking contest. Not having that option was a huge loss for us last yr.

 

[JR82]

performed well enough to get that long & with Graham, Prestia, Cotchin & RCD already in front of him and Dow alongside him competing for the same role - along with Martyn, sonsie etc - i am not sure he is worth a season commitment to that role unless he can tear it up within a month.

Personally, i would rather put my time and energy into developing Graham, RCD, Dow, Sonsie before giving Ross the reigns. Realistically unless he can find another role to rotate through, he will struggle to get given the juicy chance you crave.

IMO it's inside mid or bust with him, his best games are as an inside mid, the others you name are competing with him for a spot (among the younger guys). one thing for sure when he does get his chance he's going to have to nail it, to be fair the same goes for all of them

 

[richoatthedisco]

For what it’s worth the club have had him listed at 194cm for some time now.

It's worth nothing. They had Jack at 195 for 10 years.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Guys in the background looking on like

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Who is the Ladder ?

 

[nineteen eighty]

I read with interest earlier in this thread that Aarts is training with the mids group. I'm just going to come out and say it...as long as Aarts is in the team, we cannot compete with the best. At least not with the change in game plan.

The game plan during our flag years was based around pressure and movement forward at all costs. That meant lesser skilled players like McIntosh, Castagna amongst others could thrive in that kind of environment. And they did. Brilliant game plan for the list we had.

Now the game plan has changed to a more possession based, skills based and having all those players and Aarts in the team places us at a severe disadvantage. It just is.

I will say I like how Aarts tries. No question of his endeavour. Need to get more skill into the team and if we don't, we won't be competitive.