News Pre-season supplemental selection period between December 1 and March 15

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Rich01

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We have players who can carry some of the inside work week after week. They are just not as good as Cripps at doing it ... not many players are.
Overlooking Oliver for Weitering has meant SOS has had to sift the retreads to hopefully provide some B grade support for Cripps in the middle.

Cripps and Oliver would have been the leagues most devastating clearance duo.

Will be interesting to see which mids can step up in that supporting act and which ones fall by the wayside. Hopefully guys like Kennedy, Setterfield, Gibbons etc can play a role.
 

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Overlooking Oliver for Weitering has meant SOS has had to sift the retreads to hopefully provide some B grade support for Cripps in the middle.

Cripps and Oliver would have been the leagues most devastating clearance duo.

Will be interesting to see which mids can step up in that supporting act and which ones fall by the wayside. Hopefully guys like Kennedy, Setterfield, Gibbons etc can play a role.
Cripps and Oliver would be insanely good.

At the time though we needed KPD and weiters was the universal number 1 pick, so it's fair enough that we took him.
 
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Overlooking Oliver for Weitering has meant SOS has had to sift the retreads to hopefully provide some B grade support for Cripps in the middle.

Cripps and Oliver would have been the leagues most devastating clearance duo.

Will be interesting to see which mids can step up in that supporting act and which ones fall by the wayside. Hopefully guys like Kennedy, Setterfield, Gibbons etc can play a role.
I don't think we overlooked Oliver. He only started getting a lot of attention just prior to the draft. Phantoms a month or so out had him outside the top 10 IIRC. Weitering was the consensus #1 the entire year.

I also don't consider Kennedy or Setterfield retreads.
 

Rich01

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I don't think we overlooked Oliver. He only started getting a lot of attention just prior to the draft. Phantoms a month or so out had him outside the top 10 IIRC. Weitering was the consensus #1 the entire year.

I also don't consider Kennedy or Setterfield retreads.
SOS had a choice of the best junior defender, best junior forward and best junior mid in the 2015 draft.

He went for the backman and overlooked the other two. Cripps and Oliver in the same team would be devastating and mean that you don’t have to rely on guys like Kennedy, Gibbons and Setterfield developing as B grade mid support acts. But in saying that, you could have had Oliver and make your support acts job easier. Worked for us having Cotchin and Martin followed by Prestia and Grigg.

It was a miss by sos, but the bright side is they have plenty of time to develop up Weitering to be the best defender of that draft and best 22 in a successful team.
 
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SOS had a choice of the best junior defender, best junior forward and best junior mid in the 2015 draft.

He went for the backman and overlooked the other two. Cripps and Oliver in the same team would be devastating and mean that you don’t have to rely on guys like Kennedy, Gibbons and Setterfield developing as B grade mid support acts. But in saying that, you could have had Oliver and make your support acts job easier. Worked for us having Cotchin and Martin followed by Prestia and Grigg.

It was a miss by sos, but the bright side is they have plenty of time to develop up Weitering to be the best defender of that draft and best 22 in a successful team.
I think you are being disingenuous by declaring it a miss and by suggesting our young mids will only ever be B grade support acts.

For a start, here is the late Oct BF phantom with Oliver at #27.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2015-afl-phantom-draft.1116372/

Emma Quayle used her late mail on draft eve to see Oliver at #4 but declaring him a bolter and the first player to be taken that high despite not playing Nationals.

Oliver was never considered the best player in the draft, and while a good player was very overweight for much of his junior career.

Hindsight misses are stupid. Missing when it was a genuine toss of the coin is much more honest.

Incidentally, Setterfield is the one with an A grade pedigree if he can stay on the park.
 
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Rich01

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I think you are being disingenuous by declaring it a miss and by suggesting out young mids will only ever be B grade support acts.

For a start, here is the late Oct BF phantom with Oliver at #27.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2015-afl-phantom-draft.1116372/

Emma Quayle used her late mail on draft eve to see Oliver at #4 but declaring him a bolter and the first player to be taken that high despite not playing Nationals.
Typical bigfooty justifying a #1 picks because consensus on the forum said so. You have to look at how they perform, otherwise the recruiting manager is blameless and then it’s a development issue. For me, the blame should sit with both the person who overlooked Oliver for Weitering and the coach whose played him out of position for the best part of his short career.

Oliver is the best player in that draft and Carlton picked Weitering instead - hard not to argue that- he was there and available and SOS rated him higher.

SOS fan boys point to the genius of him picking Curnow at 12 but don’t see his failings of missing Oliver instead of Weitering and the blindigly obvious Dunkley instead of Cuningham.

I do get it. When you don’t have high standards you don’t really get disappointed with the end result. And there’s always hope the young guys will turn things around.

Projecting guys like Setterfield and Kennedy as more than eventual B grader is great but I feel we’ve heard this story before with Carlton retreads. If they end up your Prestia and Grigg combo in your side that would be a great result.
 

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Typical bigfooty justifying a #1 picks because consensus on the forum said so. You have to look at how they perform, otherwise the recruiting manager is blameless and then it’s a development issue. For me, the blame should sit with both the person who overlooked Oliver for Weitering and the coach whose played him out of position for the best part of his short career.

Oliver is the best player in that draft and Carlton picked Weitering instead - hard not to argue that- he was there and available and SOS rated him higher.

SOS fan boys point to the genius of him picking Curnow at 12 but don’t see his failings of missing Oliver instead of Weitering and the blindigly obvious Dunkley instead of Cuningham.

I do get it. When you don’t have high standards you don’t really get disappointed with the end result. And there’s always hope the young guys will turn things around.

Projecting guys like Setterfield and Kennedy as more than eventual B grader is great but I feel we’ve heard this story before with Carlton retreads. If they end up your Prestia and Grigg combo in your side that would be a great result.
Why would Carlton take Oliver, who was new on the scene and more speculative at the time, over Weitering who was billed as the best defender in the draft, captain material, likely 200+ gamer and wanted to come to Carlton?

Hindsight is 20/20, but you can’t fault Carlton for making the choice they did with the number 1 pick. Number 1 picks are nearly always a safe bet, and not usually the overall best career 15 years later. It’s a very good, very typical pick 1 decision.
 

Rich01

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Hindsight is 20/20, but you can’t fault Carlton for making the choice they did with the number 1 pick. Number 1 picks are nearly always a safe bet, and not usually the overall best career 15 years later. It’s a very good, very typical pick 1 decision.
Jack Watts pick at 1 can be justified this way as well. Doesn’t mean it was the right choice.

History will show the typical safe number 1 pick decision will be a midfielder. The best rated junior mid almost always works out to be that typical 200 gamer you talk about. Key forwards are more risky - Watts, Patton, Boyd, MCcartin. While key defenders drafted at #1 were unheard of before 2015, and have been since.
 

Lore

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Jack Watts pick at 1 can be justified this way as well. Doesn’t mean it was the right choice.

History will show the typical safe number 1 pick decision will be a midfielder. The best rated junior mid almost always works out to be that typical 200 gamer you talk about. Key forwards are more risky - Watts, Patton, Boyd, MCcartin. While key defenders drafted at #1 were unheard of before 2015, and have been since.
They don’t have crystal balls, so I’m not sure how you can claim anything was a wrong choice without the benefit of hindsight, except to troll.

What you might claim is that, with the benefit of hindsight, Oliver is so far the best player in that draft class in your opinion (and perhaps with supporting statistics, accolades etc) and that Carlton would have benefited from a player of his type. In that way you are acknowledging both that it is your own opinion, that you have hindsight to your advantage, that they are four years into their careers and that it may change as the careers of that draft class play out in full, and thus not do the typical troll thing of making a bold but illogical off-topic statement just to wind up others for your own amusement.
 

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Rich01

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They don’t have crystal balls, so I’m not sure how you can claim anything was a wrong choice without the benefit of hindsight, except to troll.

What you might claim is that, with the benefit of hindsight, Oliver is so far the best player in that draft class in your opinion (and perhaps with supporting statistics, accolades etc) and that Carlton would have benefited from a player of his type. In that way you are acknowledging both that it is your own opinion, that you have hindsight to your advantage, that they are four years into their careers and that it may change as the careers of that draft class play out in full, and thus not do the typical troll thing of making a bold but illogical off-topic statement just to wind up others for your own amusement.
Correct. I am saying exactly that.

Read back through this thread this morning. I claimed Oliver and Cripps would have been a devastating duo.
Not sure many would disagree.

And yes, Weitering over Oliver in my opinion was the wrong choice, with the benefit of hindsight (and also looking through draft history hits and misses of previous #1s by position). Hindsight has shown this to be true. Weiterings not even the best intercept defender in his draft class, but yes time may change this.

There’s no doubting Weitering was the consensus to be taken #1 in his draft year, as you say. Not arguing this one iota.

But we should be evaluating picks in how they turn out for their club and vs their competitive set in their draft year.

Not sure why you think the above is a wind up- is there anything there you disagree with?
 
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Typical bigfooty justifying a #1 picks because consensus on the forum said so. You have to look at how they perform, otherwise the recruiting manager is blameless and then it’s a development issue. For me, the blame should sit with both the person who overlooked Oliver for Weitering and the coach whose played him out of position for the best part of his short career.

Oliver is the best player in that draft and Carlton picked Weitering instead - hard not to argue that- he was there and available and SOS rated him higher.

SOS fan boys point to the genius of him picking Curnow at 12 but don’t see his failings of missing Oliver instead of Weitering and the blindigly obvious Dunkley instead of Cuningham.

I do get it. When you don’t have high standards you don’t really get disappointed with the end result. And there’s always hope the young guys will turn things around.

Projecting guys like Setterfield and Kennedy as more than eventual B grader is great but I feel we’ve heard this story before with Carlton retreads. If they end up your Prestia and Grigg combo in your side that would be a great result.
Hindsight recruiting is bullshit. You have the luxury of pointing at every player taken after a player and not having to judge if they were a realistic option based on exposed form.

All AFL recruiters were looking at Weitering vs Schache for number 1. Oliver was never in the conversation.
 
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Did some not read post 184 in this thread - Re-read and take this discussion to the Carlton Board.
This discussion is not welcome on our board. We're not exactly attacking ourselves for hindsight draft misses.

On topic: Great outcome for us getting Higgins. He will get games and I'm sure most wish him well personally.

Cottrell is based purely on running strength and attitude.

These 2 replace Bugg and fill our previous final rookie spot.

SOS says we have 2 spots, 1 supplemental before March 15 and 1 mid year. This is for Docherty and we must be mothballing Pickett as well.
 

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Did some not read post 184 in this thread - Re-read and take this discussion to the Carlton Board.
It belongs on this board, but not in this thread. There are club focus threads on the topic of Carlton, or if we’re talking about Weitering’s selection specifically, he has his own draftee thread around here somewhere. There’s also the 2015 redo the draft thread.

Lots of places where it’d fit in perfectly aside from in a thread about the supplemental selection period...

Having said that, I’m not in the business of categorising every post and moving them to appropriate threads, especially in the off season when the board is dead anyway. There is a bit of leeway to go somewhat off-topic, as long as it circles back to the point in a reasonable time frame.

I think that reasonable time frame is about up though, so anything further on the topic of Carlton’s list can be taken to an appropriate thread.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2015-redo-the-2015-afl-draft.1168711/

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/carlton-how-did-they-get-to-here.1199096/
 

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Congratulations to the kid

been at the club 2 months and has proven that he is willing to do the work required (which was the doubts on him prior to the draft) and been living with the hardwick family and been a perfect young lad.

Went back to WA over Xmas and apparently worked his backside off whilst away and came back in excellent condition, Will be exciting to watch Stack develop and hopefully have a great careers.
 

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Congratulations to the kid

been at the club 2 months and has proven that he is willing to do the work required (which was the doubts on him prior to the draft) and been living with the hardwick family and been a perfect young lad.

Went back to WA over Xmas and apparently worked his backside off whilst away and came back in excellent condition, Will be exciting to watch Stack develop and hopefully have a great careers.

Yea well said
Hopefully he can make Richmond and Melbourne city his home.
And spend less and less time in WA, and unfortunately keep away from family members that
are bad influences on the kid.
That I think will be the key to him having a long future in the game
 

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Just realised how opportune this new recruitment system's name is for an Essendon ASADA joke. They're my second team though so I won't do it.
 
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Hilarious to read John Ralph's article in the HS in which he says the Blues were making a last ditch play to steal Syd from Tigers grasp. Such a shame they couldnt sell the farm for him like they did with Stocker (who I do think will be a good player but so will RCD)
 

Ron The Bear

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Hilarious to read John Ralph's article in the HS in which he says the Blues were making a last ditch play to steal Syd from Tigers grasp.
Coach invests three months into a wayward kid from the wrong side of the tracks, only for a desperate opposition to attempt a last-minute poaching.

Long may the current cultures prevail.
 
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As if Carlton had any chance getting Sydney, they can't even develop their own players so they slip into old habits and try and steal players from other clubs.
Imagine Dimma's fury if that had happened especially having him stay at his place over Christmas. It just makes me hate them even more, they will no doubt play their Grand final in round 1 only to fall short again.
 
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