Autopsy Pre season V Richmond

[sr36]

In 2019 we started using the kicking game with success including beating Rich - we almost broke the record for uncontested marks in a game that night.
So while we missed targets on Friday I’m not as concerned given previous history using the kicking game successfully.

I wish we had have been smashed in that game. It ruined our season thinking that it could be effective. The next week WCE just adjusted their structure with an outlier and the whole plan was defunct.

 

[No SPIN]

I wish we had have been smashed in that game. It ruined our season thinking that it could be effective. The next week WCE just adjusted their structure with an outlier and the whole plan was defunct.

I know where you coming from but I think we will find a kicking game be needed this year. No team will be able to sustain a run and gun style with normal game time and reduced rotations in 2021.
There will definitely be times when we have to use it - much like Freo in the third qtr tonight.

 

[sr36]

I know where you coming from but I think we will find a kicking game be needed this year. No team will be able to sustain a run and gun style with normal game time and reduced rotations in 2021.
There will definitely be times when we have to use it - much like Freo in the third qtr tonight.

I hope you're wrong. I think we'll go ok this year, but if a precision short kicking game is required - we're stuffed.

In terms of less rotations - I wish we didn't have to trade Phillips.

 

[magpies42]

We did Look Good at Times but Looked Terrible at Times Too

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

It’s a contact sport he took a mark end of story. You need some aggression in the team absolutely nothing wrong with what Grimes did.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Or it’s just a practice match and the score is irrelevant.

The score is 'irrelevant', but the players' performances are not.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

We did Look Good at Times but Looked Terrible at Times Too

Some players always look more terrible than others. I suspect that some players are just terrible, while others are actually good. At this time of year, I expect the terrible players to be attempting to appear as unterrible as possible, while the players who are good are able to get away with appearing less good, though preferably not terrible. That's what practice games are all about.

 

[magpies42]

The score is 'irrelevant', but the players' performances are not.

They are also in a way. Pendlebury not going at 100%, Daicos missed some targets as did Moore...it’s practice!

 

[sr36]

They are also in a way. Pendlebury not going at 100%, Daicos missed some targets as did Moore...it’s practice!

What wasn't irrelevant was JDG looking a million Bucks.
And us dominating around the ground stoppage due to some excellent connections between Grundy and the mids.

They were the two really positive take aways.

The really negative take away was that we were supposedly unveiling a new game plan and it began with chip chip chip *, then moved to just flooding hte defensive 50. god knows whether the improvment at the end was us finding the way or the Tiges putting the cue in the rack.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

They are also in a way. Pendlebury not going at 100%, Daicos missed some targets as did Moore...it’s practice!

It's practice for the good players but not for those trying to impress to maintain or earn a spot in the team.

 

[left at home]

While l liked our defence last night it was they who kept turning the ball over and gave Richmond the chances they had in their forward half.
We eliminate that, and move a bit quicker with the ball then our forwards will have move one on ones and better delivery.
On watching the match again, except for a hospital pass to Kelly, l with sco Thomas played alright, w.h.e on the other hand has to lift a lot

 

[Good_Old]

Sooooo, how was the game?

 

[Gone Critical]

They are also in a way. Pendlebury not going at 100%, Daicos missed some targets as did Moore...it’s practice!

I can see Pendles, Sidey , Crisp and the like resting on their laurels a bit in a practice match based on many seasons of excellent output

Daics no. He has only one good season behind him and I am sure he is flat chat this pre season to make sure last season wasn’t an outlier.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Agree there is something awry with our tactics, overly defensive...no quick and risky ball movement. It’s very Malthouseesque. Ideally we would have an assistant coaching turnover in the off-season too. That was most disappointing.

There are glaring differences between Mms style to now. MM used the boundary and wing to force the contest forward and outnumber to force oppo turn over. Possession style yes but very offence minded and certainly not risk averse like now.

 

[magpies42]

I can see Pendles, Sidey , Crisp and the like resting on their laurels a bit in a practice match based on many seasons of excellent output

Daics no. He has only one good season behind him and I am sure he is flat chat this pre season to make sure last season wasn’t an outlier.

Indeed he (Daicos) was, still uncharacteristically missed some targets which is understandable. He is in ripping shape.

 

[jackcass]

we won clearances 30 - 20

Not so much the centre clearances though. I also think the stats dont reflect the control of the footy post clearance. Tigas were much cleaner with theirs, and better defensively against ours.

 

[magpies42]

Not so much the centre clearances though. I also think the stats dont reflect the control of the footy post clearance. Tigas were much cleaner with theirs, and better defensively against ours.

That’s exactly the issue we turn it over 2-3 possessions later which is actually worse than losing the clearance because you’re out of position. This is why it was important to move Treloar on, and Phillips would also often cough it up at the first sign of pressure. Better capability on ball is what we need, more of Steele and Pendles...players who know how to choose the right option and execute.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Ok so I've watched the game and both pressers from Bucks and Dimma:

Three glaring differences, and how it flattered the scoreboard:

• Unforced DE errors, a big part of the reason why the tigs had 64 i50's. Hopefully this is just rust and / or we're not on the same page game long like the tigs were.
• Intercept marking from the tigs (and how they set up without ball to gain them). They smashed us in that area.
• Hospital handballs, not once did the tigs handball to a team mate under pressure, we did it multiple times.

That 2nd point is hard to gauge from the tele because tele doesn't give you structure set ups like what you can see from the game. God I wished the broadcasters would have an inset to show the full view of the ground from a birds eye view! Would make it so much easier to see how teams set up with and without ball.

The positives:

• Whether or not it is the new rule or by deliberation (or both!), we moved the ball much quicker, even early in the first - it wasn't that slow look for the kick / hand ball for absolute keep of possession. We kept possession, and well, apart from those bad DE's - and that largely led to those tigs i50's. and our missing out on looks on attacking moves.
• Mason Cox and some mongrel, finally we have a player with some attitude, sure made some mistakes because of it but also contributed to his game. Don't mind even he gets a week or two because of it. If he keeps up this 'I am actually good' then we might see it on a more consistent basis. Potential is who knows but much more than what we've seen previously
• That back 6 - 8 keeping the tigs to that score, even given our gimmes to them our defence is prime (don't know how the team defences structured up coz tv). Uber stingy!
• Grundy to mid symbiosis, this is much much better as sr36 has pointed out - although not world beating we had 9 bounce clearances to 14 (not all Grundy but mainly), not too bad considering the opp, not coz they're tigs but coz they're DE was much better - even though thought those stats are similar they had better DE when and where it counted, we had bad DE where it hurt us - on the scoreboard.
• Stoppage clearances, not new but at least it something we can build with, this is where we need to swarm and spread we can attack from anywhere on the park with this. DE is key though

The negs:

• Wasted opportunities because of DE, boy we could've had em on toast! Would've had a lot more i50's (in particular where we gave it up in the corridor!)
• Going by the commentators, it seems we set up with the whole 18 in the D half without ball, just like the last two years. That's a lot of two way running! too taxing for attempt at rebound footy. Would rather we return to that swarm and spread with the same tax.
• Self inflicted damage because of - again! - DE, we really cost ourselves, badly with this.
• Hospital handballs and / or short passes. Grrrr! numerous times we handballed / passed to team mates in pressure and / or intercept. The glaring one was Darcy to IQ intercepted by Costagna for scoreboard hurt. I'll let this through to the keeper and put it down to rust on Darcy's part. Not so much for the rest of the game though - too often we gave up attacking moves - in corridor! that would've given us a look at scoreboard. Grrrr!

Players:

• Pendles has not slowed down, not that he ever had leg speed anyway, his strengths are obvious, way off his 10 tenths efforts like in a points game. I'll contest anyone that says he's on the decline, had a coupla howlers including an OOB on the full. He still creates his own time and space in traffic. Like no other - still! Forget Bont!
• The Browns, not sure why there is so much bagging of these two. Callum is pretty good in close, a howler kick yes, but so long as he gets to contest he can give an out with slick hands. Tyler seems much more skilled, starting to fill out, maybe a slow starter to this point but potential seems more than what we've seen so far. Maybe a Daicos this year let's hope so.
• TheGoey, umm I've said this a few years ago, this kid (full grown now) is either gonna flag or brownlow or both, it's a given - if he sticks with us and we can get out of this frankenstien funk DE bs then it will be with us.
• JT, one of his better games, not stellar but did some good things. Needs to consistently bring this or better otherwise to make this 22 regularly should be a struggle. Needs to pressure more defensively as a forward though. He should be on thin ice IMO.
• Grundy, has he been working with our mids off season? (Obviously yes) I'd suggest there's better sync with them, also tackled hard at times. Reckon a return to form this year. Still rusty but on face value.
• Mason Cox, has come out of his shell - at least this game, but it has been coming. No longer the 2016 import, I think he believes. Can still be pushed under the ball all too easy but his strength is where no anyone else can go - height - that doesn't mean drop it on his head, it means drop it at it's highest point where he gets run at the ball. Unbeatable there. His attitude gain may bare fruit yet (consistency).
• Bruzzy, Crisp, IQ, Noble, Moore, Roughy, Madge (bad disposal that cost!),Howe, I challenge anyone who thinks this is not a blue chip defence, we have multiple rebounders. Even against this mob we regularly walked it out of D50. Granted they had 1 on 1 contest looks forward but only on pure efficient disposal - which we gave them up field because of our own shitty DE which gave them that.
• Billy, versatile, even at 179cm he is a pretty good mid at contest (going by his mid games, and this one) and can also be a danger forward but was hampered by delivery i50 like the rest of our forwrds. Insert eye roll here.
• Daics, we have a player here, even the tigs were nervous around him - especially in space, given that was rare, provided rare forward forays (only rare to our poor de) and provided target up forward. Ultimately I'd liken him to Sides 2.0, regardless if Sides has been not given enough time forward IMO.

Summation:

Not too many teams are going to score heavily against us, if at all. Even given this was a game of tinkering it seems we have such a settled back half, regardless of the who.

DE is a big big problem, especially given our forward thrusts were taken away by self infliction of that.

There is a lot of upside purely on DE, geez if we get this right it's a premiership team. The numbers might be the similar in DE BUT we gave up ball that hurt us most. The tigs did not - rarely, fix that and we're still on track for contention.

Looking forward to Jen2310 , Apples to see how the FD fixes this on the training track!

 

[sr36]

• Going by the commentators, it seems we set up with the whole 18 in the D half without ball, just like the last two years. That's a lot of two way running.

I'm disappointed that Rantall hasn't kicked on yet or been pushed up for the praccy matches. I think we're going to miss the running of Phillips and Treloar if we push back that hard.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'm disappointed that Rantall hasn't kicked on yet or been pushed up for the praccy matches. I think we're going to miss the running of Phillips and Treloar if we push back that hard.

We don't need Phillips or Rantall, that is cart before the horse, we need to sharpen DE, that's what I got from that game. If we can do that then we're on the way. If we can't then we may as well pack it up and go home, unless we go back to the 2018 model of run two way to outnumber at contest and on outside receive.

 

[sr36]

We don't need Phillips or Rantall, that is cart before the horse, we need to sharpen DE, that's what I got from that game. If we can do that then we're on the way. If we can't then we may as well pack it up and go home, unless we go back to the 2018 model of run two way to outnumber at contest and on outside receive.

I was a Phillips fan, despite the FFS moments. His butchery tended to be on fast breaks and was infuriating because he'd blow golden chances, but those fast breaks and chances only occurred because of his awesome and smart running.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Ok so I've watched the game and both pressers from Bucks and Dimma:

Three glaring differences, and how it flattered the scoreboard:

• Unforced DE errors, a big part of the reason why the tigs had 64 i50's. Hopefully this is just rust and / or we're not on the same page game long like the tigs were.
• Intercept marking from the tigs (and how they set up without ball to gain them). They smashed us in that area.
• Hospital handballs, not once did the tigs handball to a team mate under pressure, we did it multiple times.

That 2nd point is hard to gauge from the tele because tele doesn't give you structure set ups like what you can see from the game. God I wished the broadcasters would have an inset to show the full view of the ground from a birds eye view! Would make it so much easier to see how teams set up with and without ball.

The positives:

• Whether or not it is the new rule or by deliberation (or both!), we moved the ball much quicker, even early in the first - it wasn't that slow look for the kick / hand ball for absolute keep of possession. We kept possession, and well, apart from those bad DE's - and that largely led to those tigs i50's. and our missing out on looks on attacking moves.
• Mason Cox and some mongrel, finally we have a player with some attitude, sure made some mistakes because of it but also contributed to his game. Don't mind even he gets a week or two because of it. If he keeps up this 'I am actually good' then we might see it on a more consistent basis. Potential is who knows but much more than what we've seen previously
• That back 6 - 8 keeping the tigs to that score, even given our gimmes to them our defence is prime (don't know how the team defences structured up coz tv). Uber stingy!
• Grundy to mid symbiosis, this is much much better as sr36 has pointed out - although not world beating we had 9 bounce clearances to 14 (not all Grundy but mainly), not too bad considering the opp, not coz they're tigs but coz they're DE was much better - even though thought those stats are similar they had better DE when and where it counted, we had bad DE where it hurt us - on the scoreboard.
• Stoppage clearances, not new but at least it something we can build with, this is where we need to swarm and spread we can attack from anywhere on the park with this. DE is key though

The negs:

• Wasted opportunities because of DE, boy we could've had em on toast! Would've had a lot more i50's (in particular where we gave it up in the corridor!)
• Going by the commentators, it seems we set up with the whole 18 in the D half without ball, just like the last two years. That's a lot of two way running! too taxing for attempt at rebound footy. Would rather we return to that swarm and spread with the same tax.
• Self inflicted damage because of - again! - DE, we really cost ourselves, badly with this.
• Hospital handballs and / or short passes. Grrrr! numerous times we handballed / passed to team mates in pressure and / or intercept. The glaring one was Darcy to IQ intercepted by Costagna for scoreboard hurt. I'll let this through to the keeper and put it down to rust on Darcy's part. Not so much for the rest of the game though - too often we gave up attacking moves - in corridor! that would've given us a look at scoreboard. Grrrr!

Players:

• Pendles has not slowed down, not that he ever had leg speed anyway, his strengths are obvious, way off his 10 tenths efforts like in a points game. I'll contest anyone that says he's on the decline, had a coupla howlers including an OOB on the full. He still creates his own time and space in traffic. Like no other - still! Forget Bont!
• The Browns, not sure why there is so much bagging of these two. Callum is pretty good in close, a howler kick yes, but so long as he gets to contest he can give an out with slick hands. Tyler seems much more skilled, starting to fill out, maybe a slow starter to this point but potential seems more than what we've seen so far. Maybe a Daicos this year let's hope so.
• TheGoey, umm I've said this a few years ago, this kid (full grown now) is either gonna flag or brownlow or both, it's a given - if he sticks with us and we can get out of this frankenstien funk DE bs then it will be with us.
• JT, one of his better games, not stellar but did some good things. Needs to consistently bring this or better otherwise to make this 22 regularly should be a struggle. Needs to pressure more defensively as a forward though. He should be on thin ice IMO.
• Grundy, has he been working with our mids off season? (Obviously yes) I'd suggest there's better sync with them, also tackled hard at times. Reckon a return to form this year. Still rusty but on face value.
• Mason Cox, has come out of his shell - at least this game, but it has been coming. No longer the 2016 import, I think he believes. Can still be pushed under the ball all too easy but his strength is where no anyone else can go - height - that doesn't mean drop it on his head, it means drop it at it's highest point where he gets run at the ball. Unbeatable there. His attitude gain may bare fruit yet (consistency).
• Bruzzy, Crisp, IQ, Noble, Moore, Roughy, Madge (bad disposal that cost!),Howe, I challenge anyone who thinks this is not a blue chip defence, we have multiple rebounders. Even against this mob we regularly walked it out of D50. Granted they had 1 on 1 contest looks forward but only on pure efficient disposal - which we gave them up field because of our own shitty DE which gave them that.
• Billy, versatile, even at 179cm he is a pretty good mid at contest (going by his mid games, and this one) and can also be a danger forward but was hampered by delivery i50 like the rest of our forwrds. Insert eye roll here.
• Daics, we have a player here, even the tigs were nervous around him - especially in space, given that was rare, provided rare forward forays (only rare to our poor de) and provided target up forward. Ultimately I'd liken him to Sides 2.0, regardless if Sides has been not given enough time forward IMO.

Summation:

Not too many teams are going to score heavily against us, if at all. Even given this was a game of tinkering it seems we have such a settled back half, regardless of the who.

DE is a big big problem, especially given our forward thrusts were taken away by self infliction of that.

There is a lot of upside purely on DE, geez if we get this right it's a premiership team. The numbers might be the similar in DE BUT we gave up ball that hurt us most. The tigs did not - rarely, fix that and we're still on track for contention.

Looking forward to Jen2310 , Apples to see how the FD fixes this on the training track!

EDIT:

Another big difference between the two teams, the Pies never once used a run on player coming from behind our bloke with the free. Why do we not do this?

The tigs did this repeatedly and it gave them looks at the scoreboard.

If the Pies are serious about changing game, which if I am correct Bucks mentioned this pre game, they need to use all ways of speedy movement not just quick hands out of contest.

 

[Capital Magpie]

Ok so I've watched the game and both pressers from Bucks and Dimma:

Three glaring differences, and how it flattered the scoreboard:

• Unforced DE errors, a big part of the reason why the tigs had 64 i50's. Hopefully this is just rust and / or we're not on the same page game long like the tigs were.
• Intercept marking from the tigs (and how they set up without ball to gain them). They smashed us in that area.
• Hospital handballs, not once did the tigs handball to a team mate under pressure, we did it multiple times.

That 2nd point is hard to gauge from the tele because tele doesn't give you structure set ups like what you can see from the game. God I wished the broadcasters would have an inset to show the full view of the ground from a birds eye view! Would make it so much easier to see how teams set up with and without ball.

The positives:

• Whether or not it is the new rule or by deliberation (or both!), we moved the ball much quicker, even early in the first - it wasn't that slow look for the kick / hand ball for absolute keep of possession. We kept possession, and well, apart from those bad DE's - and that largely led to those tigs i50's. and our missing out on looks on attacking moves.
• Mason Cox and some mongrel, finally we have a player with some attitude, sure made some mistakes because of it but also contributed to his game. Don't mind even he gets a week or two because of it. If he keeps up this 'I am actually good' then we might see it on a more consistent basis. Potential is who knows but much more than what we've seen previously
• That back 6 - 8 keeping the tigs to that score, even given our gimmes to them our defence is prime (don't know how the team defences structured up coz tv). Uber stingy!
• Grundy to mid symbiosis, this is much much better as sr36 has pointed out - although not world beating we had 9 bounce clearances to 14 (not all Grundy but mainly), not too bad considering the opp, not coz they're tigs but coz they're DE was much better - even though thought those stats are similar they had better DE when and where it counted, we had bad DE where it hurt us - on the scoreboard.
• Stoppage clearances, not new but at least it something we can build with, this is where we need to swarm and spread we can attack from anywhere on the park with this. DE is key though

The negs:

• Wasted opportunities because of DE, boy we could've had em on toast! Would've had a lot more i50's (in particular where we gave it up in the corridor!)
• Going by the commentators, it seems we set up with the whole 18 in the D half without ball, just like the last two years. That's a lot of two way running! too taxing for attempt at rebound footy. Would rather we return to that swarm and spread with the same tax.
• Self inflicted damage because of - again! - DE, we really cost ourselves, badly with this.
• Hospital handballs and / or short passes. Grrrr! numerous times we handballed / passed to team mates in pressure and / or intercept. The glaring one was Darcy to IQ intercepted by Costagna for scoreboard hurt. I'll let this through to the keeper and put it down to rust on Darcy's part. Not so much for the rest of the game though - too often we gave up attacking moves - in corridor! that would've given us a look at scoreboard. Grrrr!

Players:

• Pendles has not slowed down, not that he ever had leg speed anyway, his strengths are obvious, way off his 10 tenths efforts like in a points game. I'll contest anyone that says he's on the decline, had a coupla howlers including an OOB on the full. He still creates his own time and space in traffic. Like no other - still! Forget Bont!
• The Browns, not sure why there is so much bagging of these two. Callum is pretty good in close, a howler kick yes, but so long as he gets to contest he can give an out with slick hands. Tyler seems much more skilled, starting to fill out, maybe a slow starter to this point but potential seems more than what we've seen so far. Maybe a Daicos this year let's hope so.
• TheGoey, umm I've said this a few years ago, this kid (full grown now) is either gonna flag or brownlow or both, it's a given - if he sticks with us and we can get out of this frankenstien funk DE bs then it will be with us.
• JT, one of his better games, not stellar but did some good things. Needs to consistently bring this or better otherwise to make this 22 regularly should be a struggle. Needs to pressure more defensively as a forward though. He should be on thin ice IMO.
• Grundy, has he been working with our mids off season? (Obviously yes) I'd suggest there's better sync with them, also tackled hard at times. Reckon a return to form this year. Still rusty but on face value.
• Mason Cox, has come out of his shell - at least this game, but it has been coming. No longer the 2016 import, I think he believes. Can still be pushed under the ball all too easy but his strength is where no anyone else can go - height - that doesn't mean drop it on his head, it means drop it at it's highest point where he gets run at the ball. Unbeatable there. His attitude gain may bare fruit yet (consistency).
• Bruzzy, Crisp, IQ, Noble, Moore, Roughy, Madge (bad disposal that cost!),Howe, I challenge anyone who thinks this is not a blue chip defence, we have multiple rebounders. Even against this mob we regularly walked it out of D50. Granted they had 1 on 1 contest looks forward but only on pure efficient disposal - which we gave them up field because of our own shitty DE which gave them that.
• Billy, versatile, even at 179cm he is a pretty good mid at contest (going by his mid games, and this one) and can also be a danger forward but was hampered by delivery i50 like the rest of our forwrds. Insert eye roll here.
• Daics, we have a player here, even the tigs were nervous around him - especially in space, given that was rare, provided rare forward forays (only rare to our poor de) and provided target up forward. Ultimately I'd liken him to Sides 2.0, regardless if Sides has been not given enough time forward IMO.

Summation:

Not too many teams are going to score heavily against us, if at all. Even given this was a game of tinkering it seems we have such a settled back half, regardless of the who.

DE is a big big problem, especially given our forward thrusts were taken away by self infliction of that.

There is a lot of upside purely on DE, geez if we get this right it's a premiership team. The numbers might be the similar in DE BUT we gave up ball that hurt us most. The tigs did not - rarely, fix that and we're still on track for contention.

Looking forward to Jen2310 , Apples to see how the FD fixes this on the training track!

Great analysis Carringbush2010. I was hanging on every word, and I love your insights to the match and style of play. I also appreciate your balance, i.e. a reasonable blend of realism and optimism based on logical assumption and evidence. No wonder you've won a Chas Brownlow