Training Pre Season

The_Steadier

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Richmond have a couple of superstars but their insane forward pressure won them their flag. Bulldogs with their smaller forward line were good at it and during the Hawks' finals run they were ranked top 2 for forward pressure as well. I thought we moved on from that but it's looking like it's more important than ever which is why I'm desperate for some super quick forwards.
Fast forwards are useless without a midfield getting it up the good end.
The tigs mids were very good last year.

Our midfield has been our weakness for years, old news i know.

But not landing a big fish mid or two to take the heat off steven, armo etc has me pessimistic about a big improvement this year.

I think we'll be fighting it out for 6th-10th again
 

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This is the season where a lot of stepping up is going to be required by a lot of players. On 2017 form, there are a handful of players who can play close to A grade level, and would get a game with the top teams: Membrey, Carlise, Gresham, maybe Roberton. The rest are developing or are at a serviceable level and need a kick up the bum as maybe Yabby would have put it. Richo is really going to have to get the best out of the middle rung.
I'm taking off the black and yellow glasses.
They are a top team , they won the premiership.
Which of their players would be really hard to push out of their squad?
Can we even name a best 22 Tigers?

If we can get Steven and Armitage close to 2015 level, they are as good as Richmond's 2nd and 3rd best mid.
I also like to think that Steele can get to a point where he's better at contested ball and clearances than Dusty at Richmond.
Hayden Short? Dan Butler?

The a handful of stars, with only Martin and Rance really exceptional, surrounded by a team that managed to get their shit together.

Not believing for a second that quite a few of our guys would be more competitive than some of them.
Billings complete with the yips booted more than a goal a game.
At the tigers only Townsend , Riewoldt, Martin, and Butler did that, and only Martin did more around the ground than Billings.
But naaah he wouldn't get a game with them cos i feel negative today.
 

aussierulesrules

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Fast forwards are useless without a midfield getting it up the good end.
The tigs mids were very good last year.

Our midfield has been our weakness for years, old news i know.

But not landing a big fish mid or two to take the heat off steven, armo etc has me pessimistic about a big improvement this year.
Last season we were reportedly 3rd for clearance differential, had the equal-4th most scoring shots (so given how many total misses we had, we may have had the 3rd or 4th most shots for goal)- from the 2nd-easiest spots on the ground according to CD- and we took the 5th most marks inside 50, so I think our midfield was actually a fair bit better than it was given credit for. Otherwise, how did all of the above happen?

And that was despite:

-Armo (our best for clearances over the previous 2years in total) playing just 2 games,
-Stuv looking injured/out of shape all year and generally being well below his best,
-Koby missing the first 5 games and 7 in total,
-"Good Dunstan" not returning until the last 6 weeks,
-Steele only doing about a 3rd of the preseason, after arriving at the club with a pot belly and broken foot
-Sincs not playing until round 6

And on top of all the scope for improved output this year from all of them, as a result of those facts, there is how much others like Acres, Gresh, Freeman, Clark and Coffield could potentially bring to the midfield table this year- including more speed, skill and dare.
 
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stavro#4

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Last season we were reportedly 3rd for clearance differential, had the equal-4th most scoring shots (so given how many total misses we had, we may have had the 3rd or 4th most shots for goal)- from the 2nd-easiest spots on the ground according to CD- and we took the 5th most marks inside 50, so I think our midfield was actually a fair bit better than it was given credit for. Otherwise, how did all of the above happen?

And that was despite:

-Armo (our best for clearances over the previous 2years in total) playing just 2 games,
-Stuv looking injured/out of shape all year and generally being well below his best,
-Koby missing the first 5 games and 7 in total,
-"Good Dunstan" not returning until the last 6 weeks,
-Steele only doing about a 3rd of the preseason, after arriving at the club with a pot belly and broken foot
-Sincs not playing until round 6

And on top of all the scope for improved output this year from all of them, as a result of those facts, there is how much others like Acres, Gresh, Freeman, Clark and Coffield could potentially bring to the midfield table this year- including more speed, skill and dare.
Billings was huge and is underrated even on this board.
Acres stepped up - needs more consistency but trending up
 

aussierulesrules

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Billings was huge and is underrated even on this board.
Acres stepped up - needs more consistency but trending up
Jack was huge in some games and excellent in plenty of others, but only once moved back to the forwardline. When he was playing on the wing prior to that he was underwhelming and what I was talking about in that post was the midfield.

Of course if he plays in the midfield again this year and goes really well there he comes into this discussion, but given he was far better once moved permanently forward again, I don't really think of him when considering the midfield. As he was going well enough forward that I reckon we could just leave him there.

Agree completely re Acres. Could explode over the next two years IMO.

How is Freezer tracking?
 

The_Steadier

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Last season we were reportedly 3rd for clearance differential, had the equal-4th most scoring shots (so given how many total misses we had, we may have had the 3rd or 4th most shots for goal)- from the 2nd-easiest spots on the ground according to CD- and we took the 5th most marks inside 50, so I think our midfield was actually a fair bit better than it was given credit for. Otherwise, how did all of the above happen?

And that was despite:

-Armo (our best for clearances over the previous 2years in total) playing just 2 games,
-Stuv looking injured/out of shape all year and generally being well below his best,
-Koby missing the first 5 games and 7 in total,
-"Good Dunstan" not returning until the last 6 weeks,
-Steele only doing about a 3rd of the preseason, after arriving at the club with a pot belly and broken foot
-Sincs not playing until round 6

And on top of all the scope for improved output this year from all of them, as a result of those facts, there is how much others like Acres, Gresh, Freeman, Clark and Coffield could potentially bring to the midfield table this year- including more speed, skill and dare.
In a nutshell:
* mids do a lot more than contest clearances- yes i agree we have no problems winning the ball.
Winning clearances doesnt tell you anything about what your midfield DID with the ball... just that they GOT the ball.
Our midfield group is one of (if not THE) weakest midfield group of any team outside the bottom 4.

* yes we have plenty of upside, but so does every other team.

For every "steeles only had stuff all preseasons" type story we have... practically every other club has one too.
Net result generally is they cancel eachother out!

* perhaps we missed so many shots because our fwds were so stuffed from running more distance to cover our mids up the ground... resulting in jelly legs fwds spraying shots everywhere?
 

gringo2011

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Fast forwards are useless without a midfield getting it up the good end.
The tigs mids were very good last year.

Our midfield has been our weakness for years, old news i know.

But not landing a big fish mid or two to take the heat off steven, armo etc has me pessimistic about a big improvement this year.

I think we'll be fighting it out for 6th-10th again

I think we have quietly improved in the midfield and the two biggest areas of improvement need to be backs and forwards IMO. Last year without Armo and half a Jack Steven we were statistically a very strong midfield. We lack a bit of outside pace but we now have a Dunstan who ended the years a solid B grader, Koby who is a very solid B who improves with some injury luck, fitness and has had surgery to repair restricted groins. Seb close to A grade, Newnes solid B, Acres rising B, Steele rising B, Riewoldt was a shadow of his previous year with knee trouble, etc. We also have Gresh, Billings, Hunter Clarke etc all potential mids as well as several like Lonieand Phillips who can play mid in the reserves.
 

aussierulesrules

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In a nutshell:
* mids do a lot more than contest clearances- yes i agree we have no problems winning the ball.
Winning clearances doesnt tell you anything about what your midfield DID with the ball... just that they GOT the ball.
Our midfield group is one of (if not THE) weakest midfield group of any team outside the bottom 4.

* yes we have plenty of upside, but so does every other team.

For every "steeles only had stuff all preseasons" type story we have... practically every other club has one too.
Net result generally is they cancel eachother out!

* perhaps we missed so many shots because our fwds were so stuffed from running more distance to cover our mids up the ground... resulting in jelly legs fwds spraying shots everywhere?
Of course the midfield is about more than just clearances, but how do you explain the fact that we had the 4th equal-most scoring shots (from the 2nd easiest spots on the ground) and took the 5th most marks inside 50?

Someone up the ground must have been doing something right for all that to happen, so was it mostly the backline giving the foreardline all those rolled gold opportunities? Surely between getting all those clearances and all those shots for goal from great spots our midfield must have done a bit of alright.

As for suggesting that every other midfield has the same scope for improvement as every other team, I would say that is not even close to true and is a ridiculous thing to say.

We for instance have 5 on our list who were either drafted or bid on with first round picks, who will this year be in either their 3rd, 4th or 5th seasons, and who could all be past the 50 game mark by the end of the season, putting them all in that range where huge steps forward/breakout years can take place.

All 5 can or will play in the midfield/wing, then we also have Sincs, who will likewise be in his 4th year and hopefully crossing the 50 game mark, and is already rated "elite" by CD.

All 6 of them are tracking better than say Seb was at the equivalent stage of his career, IMO, and we know how much he improved once he got to that 5th year- where he likewise crossed 50 games.

Then we have 3 more that were drafted with top 10 picks, who haven't played a game yet but were all drafted to play midfield and who could come in and make some sort of impact this year, bringing something different to the table- in particular speed.

On top of potentially getting our best player back to his best or better, after a big drop-off last season.

Not every other club has all that potential for serious improvement in their midfield this year at all. Some will have more (perhaps) and some will have less. North for instance would not come even remotely close to that IMO, as just one immediate example off the top of my head, while Carlton lose Gibbs from their midfield, Brisbane lose Rockliff from theirs, etc.
 
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gringo2011

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In a nutshell:
* mids do a lot more than contest clearances- yes i agree we have no problems winning the ball.
Winning clearances doesnt tell you anything about what your midfield DID with the ball... just that they GOT the ball.
Our midfield group is one of (if not THE) weakest midfield group of any team outside the bottom 4.

* yes we have plenty of upside, but so does every other team.

For every "steeles only had stuff all preseasons" type story we have... practically every other club has one too.
Net result generally is they cancel eachother out!

* perhaps we missed so many shots because our fwds were so stuffed from running more distance to cover our mids up the ground... resulting in jelly legs fwds spraying shots everywhere?

I think last year our forward line poor with lots of missed shots and a disorganised press. Lonie, Mav, Rooey and Bruce were all below their best and Billings and Gresham both had games where they snuffed momentum with easy missed shots. Our defence had a few issues gelling with a bit of a taller slower set up and only really Roberton playing to an excellent standard. Carlisle was good but lacked accountability at times.
 
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Of course the midfield is about more than just clearances, but how do you explain the fact that we had the 4th equal-most scoring shots (from the 2nd easiest spots on the ground) and took the 5th most marks inside 50?

Someone up the ground must have been doing something right for all that to happen, so was it mostly the backline giving the foreardline all those rolled gold opportunities? Surely between getting all those clearances and all those shots for goal from great spots our midfield must have done a bit of alright.

As for suggesting that every other midfield has the same scope for improvement as every other team, I would say that is not even close to true and is a ridiculous thing to say.

We for instance have 5 on our list who were either drafted or bid on with first round picks, who will this year be in either their 3rd, 4th or 5th seasons, and who could all be past the 50 game mark by the end of the season, putting them all in that range where huge steps forward/breakout years can take place.

All 5 can or will play in the midfield/wing, then we also have Sincs, who will likewise be in his 4th year and hopefully crossing the 50 game mark, and is already rated "elite" by CD.

All 6 of them are tracking better than say Seb was at the equivalent stage of his career, IMO, and we know how much he improved once he got to that 5th year- where he likewise crossed 50 games.

Then we have 3 more that were drafted with top 10 picks, who haven't played a game yet but were all drafted to play midfield and who could come in and make some sort of impact this year, bringing something different to the table- in particular speed.

On top of potentially getting our best player back to his best or better, after a big drop-off last season.

Not every other club has all that potential for serious improvement in their midfield this year at all. Some will have more (perhaps) and some will have less. North for instance would not come even remotely close to that IMO, as just one immediate example off the top of my head, while Carlton lose Gibbs from their midfield, Brisbane lose Rockliff from theirs, etc.
think



Great post and absolutely agree look at sides that are in the 8 their mid fields are established players 100 plus games and tended to push us around physically last year , not more talented just stronger . What we will be injecting is class Billings , Gresham Acers but physically also stronger Steel Dunstan, Armitage . Richmond Martin and Cotchin, Presita Caddy etc arnt going to get better and i dont see their younger players making huge strides into the midfield , rioli will get better but as a half forward . could go through all teams if i could be bothered .
The area of improvement i want to see is in the back half we still get scored against to easily not sure if its game style or personnel if its personnel were in trouble because we are pretty mature down back and i really cant see anyone that is in that age bracket that is going to get a game that is going to make us better . Im concerned if we still have brown as our key defender by the end of the year we wont have full back that can not only stop but also attack , intercept mark and dispose to advantage . i know he did a great job defensively but needs to not only stop his man but win the ball . Like a good tagger doesnt just stop his opponent but gets the ball and moves forward .
 

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I would say our "foot soldiers" are better than Richmonds, but their top 4 (particularly top 2) are way better than ours, and thats how they won their premiership.
Like I've said before - if our GF opponents showed the lack of heart Adelaide did in 2017, we would be three premierships better off than our current return,

Richmond were good - but Adelaide were Shizenhauzen!!!!!
 

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aussierulesrules

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Great post and absolutely agree look at sides that are in the 8 their mid fields are established players 100 plus games and tended to push us around physically last year , not more talented just stronger . What we will be injecting is class Billings , Gresham Acers but physically also stronger Steel Dunstan, Armitage . Richmond Martin and Cotchin, Presita Caddy etc arnt going to get better and i dont see their younger players making huge strides into the midfield , rioli will get better but as a half forward . could go through all teams if i could be bothered .
The area of improvement i want to see is in the back half we still get scored against to easily not sure if its game style or personnel if its personnel were in trouble because we are pretty mature down back and i really cant see anyone that is in that age bracket that is going to get a game that is going to make us better . Im concerned if we still have brown as our key defender by the end of the year we wont have full back that can not only stop but also attack , intercept mark and dispose to advantage . i know he did a great job defensively but needs to not only stop his man but win the ball . Like a good tagger doesnt just stop his opponent but gets the ball and moves forward .
Agree with that pretty much word for word. Hopefully Playfair really makes a positive difference to our defence.

Tighten up there, improve as we hope in the midfield (doesn't have to be massive, but at least 15-20%), kick straighter up forward, get Bruce, Skunk, Mav and co back firing on all cylinders and don't get decimated by injuries and we could improve a chunk.

No guarantees that all or any of that happens, but far from out of the question that all or a good amount of it could.

Last year I'm not sure we made any changes to our coaching set-up in any way and we possibly got a bit stale, so it will be interesting to see with Playfair taking over the backline, Welsh the forwardline (with goalkicking help from Dixon), Sexton and Hamill the midfield, and Kingsley our transition, how much difference all that change etc makes.
 
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CursingFijian

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think



Great post and absolutely agree look at sides that are in the 8 their mid fields are established players 100 plus games and tended to push us around physically last year , not more talented just stronger . What we will be injecting is class Billings , Gresham Acers but physically also stronger Steel Dunstan, Armitage . Richmond Martin and Cotchin, Presita Caddy etc arnt going to get better and i dont see their younger players making huge strides into the midfield , rioli will get better but as a half forward . could go through all teams if i could be bothered .
The area of improvement i want to see is in the back half we still get scored against to easily not sure if its game style or personnel if its personnel were in trouble because we are pretty mature down back and i really cant see anyone that is in that age bracket that is going to get a game that is going to make us better . Im concerned if we still have brown as our key defender by the end of the year we wont have full back that can not only stop but also attack , intercept mark and dispose to advantage . i know he did a great job defensively but needs to not only stop his man but win the ball . Like a good tagger doesnt just stop his opponent but gets the ball and moves forward .
Great post.

Don't forget that a big portion of the squad look like they have lost considerable weight, and I am sure that there was a mention of 13 pb's in the first time trial at the end of last year. So not only are some of our midfielders getting stronger, but if we can improve our running power this year we hopefully find that we are getting to a lot more contests where we can exert our enhanced strength around the contest.
 

aussierulesrules

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Great post.

Don't forget that a big portion of the squad look like they have lost considerable weight, and I am sure that there was a mention of 13 pb's in the first time trial at the end of last year. So not only are some of our midfielders getting stronger, but if we can improve our running power this year we hopefully find that we are getting to a lot more contests where we can exert our enhanced strength around the contest.
Yeah some of our list are getting lighter and some are getting necessarily stronger/heavier, so hopefully we'll have more right in the sweet-spot this year. Then as VDS has suggested there's just the fact that we play a high-intensity game style and fitness in general is so imperative these days and a big chunk of our 22 are likely to be more able to play for 4 quarters this year, which could make a big diff.
 

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Lonie building his case for a permanent spot:

http://m.saints.com.au/news/2018-01-19/lonie-building-his-case-for-a-permanent-spot.mobileapp

Hearing plenty of good things about Jack this preseason.

Hopefully he gets right back to his first season best and better. I'd just about mentally put a line through his name after a couple of seasons at AFL level where he seemed a shadow of his first year for so much of them, but if he can recapture his best and then go to new levels he could certainly be an asset for us, with his pressure, skills, smarts and creativity.
 

The_Steadier

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Not every other club has all that potential for serious improvement in their midfield this year at all. Some will have more (perhaps) and some will have less. North for instance would not come even remotely close to that IMO, as just one immediate example off the top of my head, while Carlton lose Gibbs from their midfield, Brisbane lose Rockliff from theirs, etc.
I said we had probably the weakest mid group out of anyone outside the bottom 4.

I appreciate the thoughful response; but tossing up 3 of the bottom 4 as examples of why im mistaken... isn't doing much to change my pessimistic outlook.

I'm not all doom and gloom btw, i think we will improve and play finals.
But we're coming from a long way back relative to the rest of the finals contenders in mid depth AND quality.

We're one serious injury to a ross or steven away from treading water again in 2018.

Something like that happens and that cancels out any huge improvements from the likes of acres/steele/gresh

Not ideal.
 

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I said we had probably the weakest mid group out of anyone outside the bottom 4.

I appreciate the thoughful response; but tossing up 3 of the bottom 4 as examples of why im mistaken... isn't doing much to change my pessimistic outlook.

I'm not all doom and gloom btw, i think we will improve and play finals.
But we're coming from a long way back relative to the rest of the finals contenders in mid depth AND quality.

We're one serious injury to a ross or steven away from treading water again in 2018.

Something like that happens and that cancels out any huge improvements from the likes of acres/steele/gresh

Not ideal.
Collingwood is considered a team with an excellent midfield and a weaker spine.

Pendlebury v Steven...they win just
Treloar v Seb Ross ...break even
Taylor Adams v Steele...They win but getting closer
Sidebottom v Sinclair...they win easily but closing the gap
Wells v Koby They win but not by a heap
De Goey v Dunstan...both building both close
Levi Greenwood v Acres...Acres easily

They have about 4 others like Phillips and Broomhead coming through and so do we with a pile of decent youth options and Armo.

Do the comparisons with any team and the depth and quality is developing at the Saints.
 

aussierulesrules

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I said we had probably the weakest mid group out of anyone outside the bottom 4.

I appreciate the thoughful response; but tossing up 3 of the bottom 4 as examples of why im mistaken... isn't doing much to change my pessimistic outlook.
Only problem with that is that I didn't "toss up" those 3 as examples of the strength of our midfield overall, or how strong it's likely to be overall, I mentioned them solely in response to your comment that "every team would have the same scope for improvement there as us", which is a whole different argument altogether. So you've taken me completely and utterly out of context there.

Just as someone else did after my post, I could have mentioned Richmond or any other number of clubs who I believe have less scope for relative improvement in their midfield's for this year than we do. Unless the likes of Dusty and Cotchin have some remarkable new levels to go to!

We're one serious injury to a ross or steven away from treading water again in 2018.

Something like that happens and that cancels out any huge improvements from the likes of acres/steele/gresh

Not ideal.
Sure, but is that really any different to losing Armo for basically the whole year this year (when he'd just what looked like a really big preseason and we hoped we'd see him return to his 2015 best), on top of Steven basically being replaced by an inferior version of himself for most of the year? And then Koby Stevens missing the first 5 weeks (at a time when we were missing both Stuv and Armo at one stage, so all 3 of them were out and we had no-one in the middle that day had played 70 games!)?

We're likely to be far more capable of absorbing something like that this year than we have been in recent years, but no kidding taking out one of our best 2 would be a big hit. It would be for any side! That goes without saying. If something like that happens it's unlikely we're going too far.

Then again, WB lost Liberatore for the whole 2015 season (on top of losing Griffen, Cooney, Higgins etc that offseason) and they improved dramatically that year in spite of all that, so stranger things have happened.
 

gringo2011

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Only problem with that is that I didn't "toss up" those 3 as examples of the strength of our midfield overall, or how strong it's likely to be overall, I mentioned them solely in response to your comment that "every team would have the same scope for improvement there as us", which is a whole different argument altogether. So you've taken me completely and utterly out of context there.

Just as someone else did after my post, I could have mentioned Richmond or any other number of clubs who I believe have less scope for relative improvement in their midfield's for this year than we do. Unless the likes of Dusty and Cotchin have some remarkable new levels to go to!

Sure, but is that really any different to losing Armo for basically the whole year this year (when he'd just what looked like a really big preseason and we hoped we'd see him return to his 2015 best), on top of Steven basically being replaced by an inferior version of himself for most of the year? And then Koby Stevens missing the first 5 weeks (at a time when we were missing both Stuv and Armo at one stage, so all 3 of them were out and we had no-one in the middle that day had played 70 games!)?

We're likely to be far more capable of absorbing something like that this year than we have been in recent years, but no kidding taking out one of our best 2 would be a big hit. It would be for any side! That goes without saying. If something like that happens it's unlikely we're going too far.

Then again, WB lost Liberatore for the whole 2015 season (on top of losing Griffen, Cooney, Higgins etc that offseason) and they improved dramatically that year in spite of all that, so stranger things have happened.
We also had Koby having health and injury/suspension issues and Dunstan having a big midseason form drop. Steele coming form a zero fitness base and Rooey who'd made a wing his own have issues with his knee making directional change next to impossible....he couldn't even slow himself down. We had a make shift set up and still went okay.

We have guys like Gresham, Acres and Billings who could legitimately take a midfield role and all have elite qualities still playing forward and even Lonie has shown potential Caleb Daniel type midfield form in the VFL. Add Clark and Coffers and we should be stacked with mids. Sinclair is still only a baby in AFL terms.
 

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We also had Koby having health and injury/suspension issues and Dunstan having a big midseason form drop. Steele coming form a zero fitness base and Rooey who'd made a wing his own have issues with his knee making directional change next to impossible....he couldn't even slow himself down. We had a make shift set up and still went okay.

We have guys like Gresham, Acres and Billings who could legitimately take a midfield role and all have elite qualities still playing forward and even Lonie has shown potential Caleb Daniel type midfield form in the VFL. Add Clark and Coffers and we should be stacked with mids. Sinclair is still only a baby in AFL terms.
We can handle if 2 of our best goes down, last year we didn't have McCartin , Goddard , Armitage , Freeman , Roo was on one leg for half the season , Weller should not of played due to injury , Minchington , Wright , Phillips were hurt most of the time , Dunstan , Savage , Bruce had bad form at times and Webster in and out due to injury and report and Steven and Stevens missed a few games at the start of the year,

This year we really don't have really no injuries and have gained Logan , Coffield , Hunter - Clark , Paton , Langlands , Clavarino and we now have 2nd year players ready to get a seniors game like Phillips , Long , Battle , Marshall and fit Armitage , Freeman , Goddard , McCartin so things are just fine for us to surprise and grab a top 4 spot
 

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Big loss for GWS - Zac Williams
Big loss for Carlton - Sam Docherty
Big loss for Crows - Smith

a lot of people are picking the Crows for top 4 , I feel they will battle , not having Lever , Smith and Cameron this year , they are big loses.
With a aging Betts they might be lucky to be top 8.
But the home ground is a big plus.
 
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Big loss for GWS - Zac Williams
Big loss for Carlton - Sam Docherty
Big loss for Crows - Smith

a lot of people are picking the Crows for top 4 , I feel they will battle , not having Lever , Smith and Cameron this year , they are big loses.
With a aging Betts they might be lucky to be top 8.
But the home ground is a big plus.
Lions, Blues, Freo, GC, North. Would probably be the bottom 5 teams. Rest of the teams are genuine contenders for Top.8. So like you've 13 teams fighting for top 8. Personally I feel like no team is guaranteed of top 8 in 2018, it all comes down to Form and injuries.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Saintbloke

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Billings, Ross, Steven, and definitely Roberton are better than Gresham’s current output. Probably others too.
Actually I could name another half dozen easily who had better seasons than Gresham.
I know Billings has improved, but still needs to do more. I reckon if all Saints were on the market to be snapped up right now, Gresham would be the first plucked by a cashed up club.
 
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Lonie building his case for a permanent spot:

http://m.saints.com.au/news/2018-01-19/lonie-building-his-case-for-a-permanent-spot.mobileapp

Hearing plenty of good things about Jack this preseason.

Hopefully he gets right back to his first season best and better. I'd just about mentally put a line through his name after a couple of seasons at AFL level where he seemed a shadow of his first year for so much of them, but if he can recapture his best and then go to new levels he could certainly be an asset for us, with his pressure, skills, smarts and creativity.

Very loose definition of "aerobic improvement":

"Welsh said the 21-year-old had taken significant strides with his running across the past month.

In St Kilda's opening 3km time-trial of the new year, Lonie equalled his personal best time around the track at Seaford to underline his aerobic improvements this summer"
 
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