Training Pre Season

(Log in to remove this ad.)

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
26,961
Likes
45,704
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
I can also see Richo playing Sinclair as a small forward at times so another midfield can play on the wing
Yeah I noticed him forward a fair bit more in that last 3 weeks, when Seb and Stuv spent a lot of time on the wings between them.

He's one of the most obvious ones to play forward more (although he may not be a big fan of the move).
 

luca77

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Posts
1,024
Likes
3,106
Location
Japan
AFL Club
St Kilda
Yeah I noticed him forward a fair bit more in that last 3 weeks, when Seb and Stuv spent a lot of time on the wings between them.

He's one of the most obvious ones to play forward more (although he may not be a big fan of the move).
Happy to see Sincs up forward. Also happy to see Bruce and Paddy give it off to him by hand so he can kick it to Membrey.
 
Joined
Oct 4, 2016
Posts
5,215
Likes
8,338
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
St Kilda
Been a while since I have been on here, so this may be old news but will share anyway. I am hearing very good things about Ben Dixon's appointment, my source is credible. There has been a huge focus on goal kicking this pre-season as you would expect. Membrey absolutely smashing it (but no surprises there). Billings has also been on fire in goal kicking drills, and has been the 2nd most accurate kick over the pre-season. Would love to see this translate into game day. Will be a star if it does.

Finally, was also told to expect vastly improved kicking from Jack Lonie this season. They have put a lot of work into his technique. Not only has his accuracy gone through the roof, he has even managed to find another 5-10 metres in distance:thumbsu:
Gresham, Bruce? Can they also kick straight now???

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
26,961
Likes
45,704
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
I don't see the need for that

Sinclair can rotate through the wing and inside
But if we have say all of the following playing: Steven, Seb, Armo, Koby, Steele, Dunstan, Sincs and Newnes, that's 8, and there are only 5 midfield/wing spots on the ground at one time, and of all of them, Sincs and Stuv look the two best suited to playing forward, by a fair way, and with Stuv being our best in the midfield, it leaves Sincs as the no.1 of that lot to be playing forward, from where I'm sitting.

It's far far more likely that we'll play Sincs forward than in the middle, where we have an overabundance of options.

Unless of course he improves a significant amount in a hurry and is so good in the middle that we need him in there, and are moving other less suitable forward options forward, instead of him, to get them out of his way.
 
Last edited:

saintscott

Team Captain
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Posts
530
Likes
869
AFL Club
St Kilda
All i know is that this is the first year for a long time where I feel like a number of our youngsters could pop up for a rising star nom. That is exciting. And not necessarily our first picks even (though i do think coffield will get one).

I'm sick of clubs like carlton thinking they have a better list due to a handful of noms
 

sunny3193

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Posts
2,543
Likes
7,078
AFL Club
St Kilda
Mid season last year and I was taking crap because of our interchange protocols.
Rather the defence of Dunstan for not having a “tank” and therefore only getting 65% game time.
My point then, and now, was the interchange should be used as an offensive weapon. Keeping your best midfielders on for longer means your second tier midfielders are on for less.
However, that all then becomes moot once your midfielder group swells to the point where rotations also include movements forward and outside rather than just on and off the field.
And the talent spread becomes more even.

As ARR has noted, it appears we have reached such a point.

I wonder if we are able to now construct a rotation schedule that might mimic the actual schedule.

I guess we’d need to:
Identify the 22 first,
Then their nominal positions,
And their secondary positions,
The amount of game time spent in the nominal positions,
The amount of game time spent in the secondary positions,
The amount of game time spent on the pine.

Note: the combined game time across the 22 for any position would need to equal 100%.

That’s quite some algorithm.
And if each player is assigned a “value”, then the algorithm which produces the maximum team “value” would be hard to ignore.

All else being equal, if our “team value” is greater than the opposition equivalent, we should win.

Well, at least it would be a starting point......

I would not be surprised if this level of sophistication of thought is already in place as it helps explain “the champion team not team of champions” effect.
 

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Posts
17,364
Likes
43,449
AFL Club
St Kilda
Yeah I noticed him forward a fair bit more in that last 3 weeks, when Seb and Stuv spent a lot of time on the wings between them.

He's one of the most obvious ones to play forward more (although he may not be a big fan of the move).
You'd expect some natural evolution as well.

For example if a better option than Sincs presents on the wing, then you move him forward and he pushes a player out of the team such as Lonie. Hypothetical of course.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
26,961
Likes
45,704
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
You'd expect some natural evolution as well.

For example if a better option than Sincs presents on the wing, then you move him forward and he pushes a player out of the team such as Lonie. Hypothetical of course.
Barring a bad injury run, there sure does look like being a big squeeze on for spots!

There are the 23 we speak about, then Lonie, who seems really close, White who looked really good in his short stint late in the year, maybe/hopefully Freeman, and that's as many as 26 or more before we even get to Coffield and Clark, not to mention others like Rice, D-Mac, Goddard, Austin, Battle and Long!

Could easily be an exciting year coming up if we have a good injury run and enough else clicks.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Posts
36,020
Likes
21,373
Location
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
But if we have say all of the following playing: Steven, Seb, Armo, Koby, Steele, Dunstan, Sincs and Newnes, that's 8, and there are only 5 midfield/wing spots on the ground at one time, and of all of them, Sincs and Stuv look the two best suited to playing forward, by a fair way, and with Stuv being our best in the midfield, it leaves Sincs as the no.1 of that lot to be playing forward, from where I'm sitting.

It's far far more likely that we'll play Sincs forward than in the middle, where we have an overabundance of options.

Unless of course he improves a significant amount in a hurry and is so good in the middle that we need him in there, and are moving other less suitable forward options forward, instead of him, to get them out of his way.
He's our best outside mid IMO.
Didn't we have champion data with meters gained etc etc.

Your post is just so 2016.
 

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
26,961
Likes
45,704
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
He's our best outside mid IMO.
Not if we have Seb or Stuv playing there more, because they're the best suited there out of all the main inside options who now need to find alternate homes for some of the game.

Acres could also fly past him this year if he happens to really break out, while Jack say stagnates a bit, and that could be on the wing.

I'd still have Newnes ahead of Sincs at this stage as well, but it's getting closer. Two top 6 finishes in the B&F v no top 15 finishes right there.

I think it's safe to say we saw a taste of things to come in the last few rounds and that the days of Stuv, Seb and Armo playing inside 99% of the time they're on the field are finally over.

I imagine we'll now be rotating a bunch of them through the midfield, wings, forward and back flanks, and FP, and that with Sincs being well suited to both playing forward and wing, he will be one that switches as much as any of them. Those who are least versatile will move the least.
 
Last edited:

Smoke_Me_AKipper

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Posts
5,703
Likes
8,713
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Tottenham; Philadelphia Eagles
Barring a bad injury run, there sure does look like being a big squeeze on for spots!

There are the 23 we speak about, then Lonie, who seems really close, White who looked really good in his short stint late in the year, maybe/hopefully Freeman, and that's as many as 26 or more before we even get to Coffield and Clark, not to mention others like Rice, D-Mac, Goddard, Austin, Battle and Long!

Could easily be an exciting year coming up if we have a good injury run and enough else clicks.
If we get a good injury run then we should make finals
 

BrutThough

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Posts
3,592
Likes
12,047
AFL Club
St Kilda
Not if we have Seb or Stuv playing there more, because they're the best suited there out of all the main inside options who now need to find alternate homes for some of the game.

Acres could also fly past him this year if he happens to really break out, while Jack say stagnates a bit, and that could be on the wing.

I'd still have Newnes ahead of Sincs at this stage as well, but it's getting closer. Two top 6 finishes in the B&F v no top 15 finishes right there.

I think it's safe to say we saw a taste of things to come in the last few rounds and that the days of Stuv, Seb and Armo playing inside 99% of the time they're on the field are finally over.

I imagine we'll now be rotating a bunch of them through the midfield, wings, forward and back flanks, and FP, and that with Sincs being well suited to both playing forward and wing, he will be one that switches as much as any of them. Those who are least versatile will move the least.
Sinclair is a better choice on the wing than Seb/Stuv/Newnes and Acres. He is a better user of the ball and has much better vision/understanding when moving the ball into the forward line than the others.

It isn't a coincidence that Sebs worst games of last year were the games where he was played on the wing. Playing on the wing could help Stuv with a tag, but I would rather play him forward and keep our best wingman in his position than moving them both to positions they are weaker in.
 

Smoke_Me_AKipper

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Posts
5,703
Likes
8,713
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Tottenham; Philadelphia Eagles
Agree, finals would be a minimum pass mark under those circumstances. That said, our draw doesn't look like it's doing us too many favours!
Yeah when I saw the draw my first thought was "oh no!"

In saying that we should beat WCE and North twice. We're a chance for at least 13 wins with a bit of luck
 

Smoke_Me_AKipper

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Posts
5,703
Likes
8,713
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Tottenham; Philadelphia Eagles
Sinclair is a better choice on the wing than Seb/Stuv/Newnes and Acres. He is a better user of the ball and has much better vision/understanding when moving the ball into the forward line than the others.

It isn't a coincidence that Sebs worst games of last year were the games where he was played on the wing. Playing on the wing could help Stuv with a tag, but I would rather play him forward and keep our best wingman in his position than moving them both to positions they are weaker in.
Sinclair is rated elite on the wing according to Champion Data - the only player in our side who is - enough said!!

Just love his ball use - a very classy player
 

Sheepey

All Australian
Joined
Oct 18, 2016
Posts
737
Likes
2,401
AFL Club
St Kilda
Not if we have Seb or Stuv playing there more, because they're the best suited there out of all the main inside options who now need to find alternate homes for some of the game.

Acres could also fly past him this year if he happens to really break out, while Jack say stagnates a bit, and that could be on the wing.

I'd still have Newnes ahead of Sincs at this stage as well, but it's getting closer. Two top 6 finishes in the B&F v no top 15 finishes right there.

I think it's safe to say we saw a taste of things to come in the last few rounds and that the days of Stuv, Seb and Armo playing inside 99% of the time they're on the field are finally over.

I imagine we'll now be rotating a bunch of them through the midfield, wings, forward and back flanks, and FP, and that with Sincs being well suited to both playing forward and wing, he will be one that switches as much as any of them. Those who are least versatile will move the least.
Sinclair >>>>>>> Newnes
 

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
26,961
Likes
45,704
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
Sinclair is a better choice on the wing than Seb/Stuv/Newnes and Acres. He is a better user of the ball and has much better vision/understanding when moving the ball into the forward line than the others.

.
That is IMO extremely debatable and flat out wrong by a long way in the case of Stuv in particular, unless Sincs improves a hell of a lot this year. And I mean a hell of a lot. And then some.

Stuv played basically the whole game on the wing in the 2nd last game (for the first time since probably Lenny retired) and absolutely monstered them out there, with 40 disposals (@87% DE, 15 contested, just 1 clanger), 412m gained, 11 clearances!, 5 tackles, 26 pressure acts, 3 goal assists, a whopping 16 score involvements, a SC score of 153, 3 Brownlow votes and I'm sure 10 coaches votes.

Sincs as talented as he is has probably never played a game like that in his dreams, let alone on a football field. If Stuv played wing all year and was left untagged like Sincs is he'd have about a million disposals and rip teams to shreds.

I'd also comfortably take Seb on a wing for the year ahead of him at this stage, not having seen how any of them are going this year. He still had 27 and 25 disposals in rounds 21 and 23, which is an average of 6 more disposals per game over Jack's season average out there.

It's also crystal-balling as to who would be better out there out of him and Blake this year, as for all we know Blake could have a big break-out this year, while Sincs may stagnate, so we'll see there.
 
Last edited:

Sheepey

All Australian
Joined
Oct 18, 2016
Posts
737
Likes
2,401
AFL Club
St Kilda
Newnes best B&F finishes: 5, 6, 8
Sincs 0 top 15 finishes.
That's essentially an appeal to authority. I believe that methodology is flawed because it takes into account other factors. For instance I wouldn't say Geary was our third best player in the year. Newnes is your standard B player, he's respectable and keeps the opponent honest, but does nothing special. He very much has a tendency to bomb it into the fifty, whereas Sinclair had the best disposal at our club. Both of their endurance capacities are exceptional.
The only area that Newnes has Sinclair beat is on defence, a facet that Sinclair has stated has been his focus this pre season. I really don't think Newnes had the best year, and he well and truly stagnated, but Sinclair was easily one of your most improved, with serious potential to keep improving, which is why he is in front of my list.
 
Last edited:

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
26,961
Likes
45,704
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
That's essentially an appeal to authority. I believe that methodology is flawed because it takes into account other factors. For instance I would say Geary was our third best player in the year. Newnes is your standard B player, he's respectable and keeps the opponent honest, but does nothing special. He very much has a tendency to bomb it into the fifty, whereas Sinclair had the best disposal at our club. Both of their endurance capacities are exceptional.
The only area that Newnes has Sinclair beat is on defence, a facet that Sinclair has stated has been his focus this pre season. I really don't think Newnes had the best year, and he well and truly stagnated, but Sinclair was easily one of your most improved, with serious potential to keep improving, which is why he is in front of my list.
I agree with much of that, especially the kicking inside 50 bit, but as I've said previously, Newnes was IMO 100% having his best year until about half way through the R16 game v Richmond (when he'd had 20 disposals to half time and was well on track for his first 40, before he mysteriously disappeared for the last 45 or so mins of the game), at which stage he was averaging about 25 disposals per game (if you don't include the game where he was concussed early), but he never seemed the same for the rest of the year (only averaged 21 disp from then on), so I think it's extremely likely that he copped an injury in the 2nd half of that Richmond game, and played the year out with it, limiting his output.

And like so many others who have been bagged for their performances when it turns out they were playing injured in recent years (eg Joey when playing with a break in his leg, Mav last year with his ankle, etc) I think that has diminished the view of him by many.

Chances are it's the same injury that seems to have kept him out of much of this preseason by the looks of it. In that pic they posted earlier in the week he looked to have his upper leg wrapped up under his shorts, so perhaps it was a groin issue of some kind.

I'm a huge fan of Sincs like everyone else, but I reckon Newnes gets pretty undervalued (in particular because wing is far more about just what you do forward of centre) and far too much gets made of his sometimes poor kicks into the F50, which didn't seem to be an issue until very recently, and are probably something he can fix up.
 
Top Bottom