Training Pre Season

[Human Person]

Why are you not positive?
What is it the saints lack in your opinion?

I’m cautiously optimistic, I think our defence could be one the best in the league, the midfield is solid without being special (yet) but the forward line is the question mark for me, Billings, Gresh and Skunk are beauties, Paddy hasn’t had a good run at it so is an unknown and Bruce is inconsistent and is prone to brain fades. And as of yet our best small forward is being groomed for more midfield time.

I think we can do really well, but I don’t see us beating both GWS and Adelaide (especially considering how the Crows have pantsed us the last few encounters).

I’ll be extremely happy to be wrong though.

 

[toxic]

I’m cautiously optimistic, I think our defence could be one the best in the league, the midfield is solid without being special (yet) but the forward line is the question mark for me, Billings, Gresh and Skunk are beauties, Paddy hasn’t had a good run at it so I S an unknown and Bruce is inconsistent and is prone to brain fades. And as of yet our best small forward is being groomed for more midfield time.

I think we can do really well, but I don’t see us beating both GWSand Adelaide (especially considering how the Ceiws have pantsed us te last few encounters).

I’ll be extremely happy to be wrong though.

Who's skunk?

 

[Human Person]

Who's skunk?

Membrey

 

[hayes]

Why are you not positive?
What is it the saints lack in your opinion?

We're not convinced about our midfield yet.

 

[sammm]

We're not convinced about our midfield yet.

we're not convinced about anybody as yet.

 

[aussierulesrules]

We're not convinced about our midfield yet.

Our midfield might not be the greatest going around, but it was good enough this year to get us to 11 wins from a difficult draw, to a ranking of 3rd for clearance differential and to provide our forward line with the equal-4th most shots for goal- from the 2nd easiest spots, according to CD- so imagine how much better it could be next year, if nothing changed but Steven being back to full fitness and form?

Like he showed when had 40 and 11 clearances off a wing v North in R22 where he ripped them a newy, in a reminder of what we'd been missing for most of the year!?

That alone could make our midfield 10-20% better, and that's before taking into account what it might be like on top of that, IF Armo is back to full fitness and form, and Freeman keeps progressing like he did this year, and stays reasonably injury free (in particular soft tissue) again. Big "if's", but also completely possible.

Then there's the very serious potential of any of Dunstan, Steele, or Acres really stepping it up in a pretty significant way, in their 4th/5th years, like say Seb did.

I see them all as being ahead of where Seb was at the same age and they were all drafted/bid on earlier than him, too, and in stronger drafts, which suggests greater natural talent.

I looked at Seb's career stats last night and in his 4th year (like Dunstan and Acres were in this year), he averaged just 18 disposals- from his 10 games- and didn't have more than 25 disposals in any of those games.

Dunstan averaged more than that in his very first season, and when he finally got it all back together late this year, he averaged 28 and nearly a goal a game for those last 6 games, and had 5 games from his 16 of between 27 and 32 touches.

Acres, despite playing mostly forward this year, averaged over 20, at the same age Seb averaged 18 from more midfield time, and Blake had two games of 30 and a goal, and another of 27 and a goal.

Yet in his 44 games in his 5th and 6th seasons Seb managed to have between 30 and 39 disposals 22 times, which shows how much improvement can be made once you're no longer a "kid", and have at least a couple of full preseasons under your belt.

If even just one of those 3 "do a Seb", or something like that, our midfield could be significantly better just as a result of that, and it wouldn't be any great stretch to see at least two of them take big steps forward.

 

[hayes]

we're not convinced about anybody as yet.

I don't agree with that. I'm convinced our forward line, backline, ruckman, pretty much everything else bar the midfield is sorted.

I think our midfield has plenty of potential but until that potential turns into consistent performances I won't get too carried away.

 

[VDS66]

NO it means lower expectations of him so we dont have people calling for him to be delisted

As if...

 

[majortinkle]

I don't agree with that. I'm convinced our forward line, backline, ruckman, pretty much everything else bar the midfield is sorted.

I think our midfield has plenty of potential but until that potential turns into consistent performances I won't get too carried away.

Yeah, if the last two draft years picks come off I think we're potentially sorted across the ground.

When you look at projected future 22's pretty much all our pace has been added in those drafts. If they hit the ground running this year I'm confident....if they don't we'll play excessive slower inside types and struggle to spread and struggle to defend turnovers and rebounds and have a similar year to last year.

 

[sunny3193]

Gws wont make top 5.
Insane maybe but i also tipped hawks and dogs to miss the 8 in 2017.
Crows by all accounts have had an ordinary preseason. Not sure all's good in the hood in crowland.
To much Tex input and the Lever fallout and internal politics is pretty ordinary imo

Apart from the vibe, why do you think GWS won’t make top 5?
I’m not disagreeing with you, rather interested in why you came to that conclusion.
I’ve thought for some time that we had seen peak talent at GWS this year.
The team may improve but their raw talent started declining effective the last trade/draft period.

 

[gringo2011]

Our midfield might not be the greatest going around, but it was good enough this year to get us to 11 wins from a difficult draw, to a ranking of 3rd for clearance differential and to provide our forward line with the equal-4th most shots for goal- from the 2nd easiest spots, according to CD- so imagine how much better it could be next year, if nothing changed but Steven being back to full fitness and form?

Like he showed when had 40 and 11 clearances off a wing v North in R22 where he ripped them a newy, in a reminder of what we'd been missing for most of the year!?

That alone could make our midfield 10-20% better, and that's before taking into account what it might be like on top of that, IF Armo is back to full fitness and form, and Freeman keeps progressing like he did this year, and stays reasonably injury free (in particular soft tissue) again. Big "if's", but also completely possible.

Then there's the very serious potential of any of Dunstan, Steele, or Acres really stepping it up in a pretty significant way, in their 4th/5th years, like say Seb did.

I see them all as being ahead of where Seb was at the same age and they were all drafted/bid on earlier than him, too, and in stronger drafts, which suggests greater natural talent.

I looked at Seb's career stats last night and in his 4th year (like Dunstan and Acres were in this year), he averaged just 18 disposals- from his 10 games- and didn't have more than 25 disposals in any of those games.

Dunstan averaged more than that in his very first season, and when he finally got it all back together late this year, he averaged 28 and nearly a goal a game for those last 6 games, and had 5 games from his 16 of between 27 and 32 touches.

Acres, despite playing mostly forward this year, averaged over 20, at the same age Seb averaged 18 from more midfield time, and Blake had two games of 30 and a goal, and another of 27 and a goal.

Yet in his 44 games in his 5th and 6th seasons Seb managed to have between 30 and 39 disposals 22 times, which shows how much improvement can be made once you're no longer a "kid", and have at least a couple of full preseasons under your belt.

If even just one of those 3 "do a Seb", or something like that, our midfield could be significantly better just as a result of that, and it wouldn't be any great stretch to see at least two of them take big steps forward.

Yeah the only issue at the moment is we have a little too much grunt and not much glitter. Get a few who become guns next year and we are away.

 

[toxic]

Apart from the vibe, why do you think GWS won’t make top 5?
I’m not disagreeing with you, rather interested in why you came to that conclusion.
I’ve thought for some time that we had seen peak talent at GWS this year.
The team may improve but their raw talent started declining effective the last trade/draft period.

They keep expecting 3rd -5th year mids to take the comp by storm, history says it doesnt and wont happen.
Ward , griffen, lids, shaw are well past their best.
Patton and Cameron are either very poorly coached as a duo or simply dont know how to play team footy. They very rarely combine to destroy teams. Tbh power fwds seem to be on the nose as influencers.
And i think defensively as a team they are lazy front runners easily broken down.
Fwiw i think they have 2 elite talents. Kelly and Greene only

 

[BrutThough]

Yeah the only issue at the moment is we have a little too much grunt and not much glitter. Get a few who become guns next year and we are away.

I think we have the glitter there, they just aren't consistent enough. Gresh, Billings, Acres, Sinclair, Stuv, even Bruce all do those x-factor things but we just don't see it enough. If Stuv can return to full fitness and Bruce starts marking it again, while Billings and Gresh kick straight, we are instantly a team with a lot of x-factor. Add Acres, who shows x-factor but his lack of a consistent position, and Sinclair, whose is just silk, and we are looking like a team with equal grunt and glitter.

 

[Stewart66]

They keep expecting 3rd -5th year mids to take the comp by storm, history says it doesnt and wont happen.
Ward , griffen, lids, shaw are well past their best.
Patton and Cameron are either very poorly coached as a duo or simply dont know how to play team footy. They very rarely combine to destroy teams. Tbh power fwds seem to be on the nose as influencers.
And i think defensively as a team they are lazy front runners easily broken down.
Fwiw i think they have 2 elite talents. Kelly and Greene only

Think Taranto ,Setterfield will be very good for them.. next year for me it’s their coach .
Anybody that plays Patton in the ruck ...is clueless .

 

[Premium]

They keep expecting 3rd -5th year mids to take the comp by storm, history says it doesnt and wont happen.
Ward , griffen, lids, shaw are well past their best.
Patton and Cameron are either very poorly coached as a duo or simply dont know how to play team footy. They very rarely combine to destroy teams. Tbh power fwds seem to be on the nose as influencers.
And i think defensively as a team they are lazy front runners easily broken down.
Fwiw i think they have 2 elite talents. Kelly and Greene only

GWS have a outstanding backline , outstanding mid field , the only thing they need is the forward line to fire(Cameron was injured most of the year) , if that happens they are flag favourites.
Remember they had a lot of injuries - Buntine , Hopper , Haynes , Kennedy , Himmelberg

They will be top 2

Kennedy - Tomlinson - Williams
Corr - Davis - Shaw - Haynes
Scully - Kelly - Whitfield
Greene - Cameron - Conigilo
Himmelberg - Patton - Hopper

Lobb - Ward - Sheil

i/c Taranto / Setterfield / Perryman / Buntine

Bonar - Deledio - Tiziani - Finlayson - Buckley - Cumming

 

[Premium]

The sky the limit for us - but it all depends if all our young kids step up , Steele , Dunstan , Billings , Acres , Gresham , Sinclair , Membery , McCartin , Goddard , Austin.
Also big factors will be how well Carlisle , Bruce , Stevens , Steven , Weller , Roberton , Geary , Armitage , Savage , Freeman Gibert , Longer perform.

If they all have outstanding season we will beat anyone

 

[aussierulesrules]

I think we have the glitter there, they just aren't consistent enough. Gresh, Billings, Acres, Sinclair, Stuv, even Bruce all do those x-factor things but we just don't see it enough. If Stuv can return to full fitness and Bruce starts marking it again, while Billings and Gresh kick straight, we are instantly a team with a lot of x-factor. Add Acres, who shows x-factor but his lack of a consistent position, and Sinclair, whose is just silk, and we are looking like a team with equal grunt and glitter.

We certainly need more class and speed in the team I reckon, but hopefully we'll get a lot of that from Clark, Coffield and Freeman going forward (all drafted in the top 10 of their respective drafts) and then there's others who we've recruited who have more speed and skill, in Long, Paton and Langlands, who might also be able to provide some of that down the track.

Would love to get Defacto's boy Ian Hill next year. Reckon he's what we need in a big way, with that outside speed, skill and x/excitement factor.

 

[BrutThough]

We certainly need more class and speed in the team I reckon, but hopefully we'll get a lot of that from Clark, Coffield and Freeman going forward (all drafted in the top 10 of their respective drafts) and then there's others who we've recruited who have more speed and skill, in Long, Paton and Langlands, who might also be able to provide some of that down the track.

Would love to get Defacto's boy Ian Hill next year. Reckon he's what we need in a big way, with that outside speed, skill and x/excitement factor.

I hope Clark can break into the 22 this year, because everything I have seen from him so far is exciting and he is exactly what we need. And the fact he can kick on both feet is just that extra something to set him above his peers.

Also the prospect of seeing White play more - I think he has been more impressive in his three games than most debutantes we have had in recent times. He seems to have an equal amount of grunt and skills to add something different to the back half.

 

[gringo2011]

I think we have the glitter there, they just aren't consistent enough. Gresh, Billings, Acres, Sinclair, Stuv, even Bruce all do those x-factor things but we just don't see it enough. If Stuv can return to full fitness and Bruce starts marking it again, while Billings and Gresh kick straight, we are instantly a team with a lot of x-factor. Add Acres, who shows x-factor but his lack of a consistent position, and Sinclair, whose is just silk, and we are looking like a team with equal grunt and glitter.

At the moment we have little sprinkles but we need a glitter cannon to take the next leap. I think it was DontheQT posted this on one of the other threads. We are still inconsistent generally but do have heaps of potential.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/12/23/analytical-approach-roster-analysis/

 

[BrutThough]

At the moment we have little sprinkles but we need a glitter cannon to take the next leap. I think it was DontheQT posted this on one of the other threads. We are still inconsistent generally but do have heaps of potential.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/12/23/analytical-approach-roster-analysis/

Our games against GWS, Hawthorn and Richmond give me way too much hope as our players were unstoppable those games. They included some of the best footy played by any team this year. Hopefully we can do that more next year, because it is just great to watch.

 

[majortinkle]

At the moment we have little sprinkles but we need a glitter cannon to take the next leap. I think it was DontheQT posted this on one of the other threads. We are still inconsistent generally but do have heaps of potential.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/12/23/analytical-approach-roster-analysis/

It’s based on rankings over three years. I presume he is talking about the afl ones which have always seemed the worst out there to be honest but seem to massively favour 5+ year players because you’re usually in and out of a side for the first couple of years or played in a non prominent position.

We don’t have many in that age range in comparison to even Brisbane so we’re going to come off badly in his system. We have a lot of guys about to get in that zone so we’ll fly up his rankings. Unfortunately our move in reality isn’t necessarily going to be as quick or automatic.

 

[toxic]

GWS have a outstanding backline , outstanding mid field , the only thing they need is the forward line to fire(Cameron was injured most of the year) , if that happens they are flag favourites.
Remember they had a lot of injuries - Buntine , Hopper , Haynes , Kennedy , Himmelberg

They will be top 2

Kennedy - Tomlinson - Williams
Corr - Davis - Shaw - Haynes
Scully - Kelly - Whitfield
Greene - Cameron - Conigilo
Himmelberg - Patton - Hopper

Lobb - Ward - Sheil

i/c Taranto / Setterfield / Perryman / Buntine

Bonar - Deledio - Tiziani - Finlayson - Buckley - Cumming

Defence is average at best

 

[Brains Trust66]

GWS have a outstanding backline , outstanding mid field , the only thing they need is the forward line to fire(Cameron was injured most of the year) , if that happens they are flag favourites.
Remember they had a lot of injuries - Buntine , Hopper , Haynes , Kennedy , Himmelberg

They will be top 2

Kennedy - Tomlinson - Williams
Corr - Davis - Shaw - Haynes
Scully - Kelly - Whitfield
Greene - Cameron - Conigilo
Himmelberg - Patton - Hopper

Lobb - Ward - Sheil

i/c Taranto / Setterfield / Perryman / Buntine

Bonar - Deledio - Tiziani - Finlayson - Buckley - Cumming

What most people seem to forget is that they are still mostly very young so they haven’t hit their peak yet . I’m amazed the amount of people that are writing them off already . I do doubt their long term future because the crowd hasn’t taken to them . But they are going to be up near the top for at least the next 5 or so years .


Can’t wait for 2018 season.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I hope Clark can break into the 22 this year, because everything I have seen from him so far is exciting and he is exactly what we need. And the fact he can kick on both feet is just that extra something to set him above his peers.

Also the prospect of seeing White play more - I think he has been more impressive in his three games than most debutantes we have had in recent times. He seems to have an equal amount of grunt and skills to add something different to the back half.

Ah yes, forgot about White, has speed, a defensive game and a weapon of a left boot, so he is another one who could help to transform out team over the coming years. Was super-impressive in his first couple of games this year for someone in just his 2nd and 3rd games. Intercept marking, excellent closing speed and spoiling, good sidestep/evasiveness, speed and a cracking kick.

As for Hunter, I have no doubt that he has what it takes to come in and make an impact next year. I might have preferred Bonar if given the choice between the two, but that doesn't mean I don't rate Hunter really highly, which is why I've been talking up his prospects since very early in the year, after having first seen him in the champs last year.

I'm tipping him to play early and at least 15 games for the year, as I reckon he's about as well equipped to play year 1 as anyone we've drafted in recent years, and we've had a handful of them who've become best 22 in year 1 (Dunstan, Gresh, Billings, Lonie and Sincs).

 

[toxic]

GWS have a outstanding backline , outstanding mid field , the only thing they need is the forward line to fire(Cameron was injured most of the year) , if that happens they are flag favourites.
Remember they had a lot of injuries - Buntine , Hopper , Haynes , Kennedy , Himmelberg

They will be top 2

Kennedy - Tomlinson - Williams
Corr - Davis - Shaw - Haynes
Scully - Kelly - Whitfield
Greene - Cameron - Conigilo
Himmelberg - Patton - Hopper

Lobb - Ward - Sheil

i/c Taranto / Setterfield / Perryman / Buntine

Bonar - Deledio - Tiziani - Finlayson - Buckley - Cumming

So i can reply in a bit more depth now I'm not out for dinner.

The interchange you've named for GWS, almost every Saints best 22 has a stronger bench.
Ward is now past his best, he's solid but not a match winner.
Sheil has still yet to prove he's an Elite influencer of games on a regular basis.
Himm and Hopp, dime a dozen at this stage of their careers.
I just don't see any improvement in their best
Guess time will tell tho