Socceroos Pre WC friendly match day thread featuring the Czech Republic & Hungary

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Brillante, Karacic, Troisi and Rukavytsya all out. Probably fair enough and can agree with all of them, although Maclaren wouldn’t have made it for me, I understand the injury concerns for Juric, but you can make injury replacements right up until your first game. So I would have taken Maclaren out and slotted one of the four omissions back in. Other than that looks about as good as we can get so I’m happy with it.


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I'm pretty happy with all the omissions. Rukavystya isn't an international's a-hole - that he's been in the running despite his failure to even be good, let alone dominant at A-League level with the Wanderers a couple of seasons ago continues to defy belief.

Brillante was always a strange inclusion. He was never going to get a look in given our strength of midfielders - so he was seemingly only ever picked weirdly as an out of position choice at RB.

Troisi had a couple of decent games this season, but overall he was pretty friggen dismal for the Victory, and was another who was lucky to be in the squad. He was probably only in due to his ability to play multiple positions, but he's not been good enough that I'd want him playing any of those positions.

Karacic - I guess we just have to take that decision on trust. I doubt any of us have seen anywhere near enough of him to be able to make a decision. But given Risdon's outstanding game on Friday, maybe Karacic was just a bolter not worth risking based on what he's shown in camp.
 

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GOALden Hawk said:
Apparently Karacic's language skills were actually a bit of an issue and might have contributed to him missing out?

Best 23 BVM could have picked for mine.
Click to expand...

Was he the one who was eligible to play for us but has never even been here?
 
My grandad was born in Italy, I've never been there nor can I speak the language, but I'm eligible for their national team.

Seems like madness really
 
Troisi says he's in shock that he missed out.

Well James it's what happens when you lose you Golden Ticket.
 
Boris the Contradiction said:
Maybe. I still think Sainsbury and Jurman is our best pairing.

I think the following is our best team. Kind've like a lopsided Chesea Mourinho team with our right wing playing wide with a proper wing game (Leckie), supported by a defensive fullback who tucks in (Risdon) and a deep lying CDM who can join the defence when the opposite full back bombs forward (Jedinak). On the other side it's the opposite, with an attacking full back who bombs forward (Behich) and a central midfielder who drifts left (Mooy) to fill the gap and get on the ball, playing his full back through. Kruse up top as a false 9 with players running beyond him.

I think this system best utilises our best players.

------------------Kruse
----------Mooy--Rogic--------Leckie
---------Jedinak---Luongo
Behich Jurman Sainsbury Risdon
-------------------Ryan
Click to expand...

Always intrigued me that Luongo is played in that defensive midfield role. He is a class attacking player but perhaps his style is too similar to Rogics?. Both take players on. Both are goal scorers. Mooy is a possession freak but dare I say isn't incisive enough at international level and tends to slow the play. Did I read correctly that Mooy was amongst premier leagues best defensive midfielders? Given we are at WC against invariably better opposition fast ball movement on rebound is the answer. I'd swap mooy and Luongo.

No way can Jedinak play central defence at this level- too slow and would be found out. Where you have him is best. Risdon is our weakness. Naive in defensive lapses. Id have Degenek in instead. Much safer. Kruse isn't a natural target man and you stifle his natural run from the wing which is his major asset. Swap him with Leckie (also not a natural target but infinitely better than Juric who I see as disappointing).
 
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nobbyiscool said:
I'm pretty happy with all the omissions. Rukavystya isn't an international's a-hole - that he's been in the running despite his failure to even be good, let alone dominant at A-League level with the Wanderers a couple of seasons ago continues to defy belief.

Brillante was always a strange inclusion. He was never going to get a look in given our strength of midfielders - so he was seemingly only ever picked weirdly as an out of position choice at RB.

Troisi had a couple of decent games this season, but overall he was pretty friggen dismal for the Victory, and was another who was lucky to be in the squad. He was probably only in due to his ability to play multiple positions, but he's not been good enough that I'd want him playing any of those positions.

Karacic - I guess we just have to take that decision on trust. I doubt any of us have seen anywhere near enough of him to be able to make a decision. But given Risdon's outstanding game on Friday, maybe Karacic was just a bolter not worth risking based on what he's shown in camp.
Click to expand...
Agree on Ruk. Talked up years ago, amounted to sweet * all. How he was even in the discussion is beyond me.

Over hyped. Over the hill.
 
lewdogs said:
Don't want to sound harsh but I'm so happy that he missed out. Such an incredibly average player.
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I'd be shocked if the Victory even keep him around on his wages
 
puke said:
Always intrigued me that Luongo is played in that defensive midfield role. He is a class attacking player but perhaps his style is too similar to Rogics?. Both take players on. Both are goal scorers. Mooy is a possession freak but dare I say isn't incisive enough at international level and tends to slow the play. Did I read correctly that Mooy was amongst premier leagues best defensive midfielders? Given we are at WC against invariably better opposition fast ball movement on rebound is the answer. I'd swap mooy and Luongo.

No way can Jedinak play central defence at this level- too slow and would be found out. Where you have him is best. Risdon is our weakness. Naive in defensive lapses. Id have Degenek in instead. Much safer. Kruse isn't a natural target man and you stifle his natural run from the wing which is his major asset. Swap him with Leckie (also not a natural target but infinitely better than Juric who I see as disappointing).
Click to expand...

I haven't picked Luongo as a defensive midfielder. In that position, his main job is to recycle possession to more incisive players such as Mooy and make occasional runs beyond with Jedinak shielding. Jedinak is in there as the purely defensive midfielder.

I agree with your comments on Mooy, but he is our best player by a mile and is also our best passer (again, by a mile), so I don't want him constrained too much. In our team, he needs the freedom to run the midfield.

I was of the same opinion on Risdon (I was on the Karacic train), but he won me over against Czech Republic. He was excellent and the best of our back four. It's his spot to lose for now.

I didn't pick Kruse as a target man, but more as a false nine but the more I think about it, the more I think that role robs him of his best attribute which is to make runs from wide off the nine. How we could do with Viduka!

Hmmmm. Maybe we just need to drop one of Jedinak or Rogic. As good as Rogic is, I don't think our system suits him. Square peg, round hole and all that. It's a dilemma.

One thing I am sure of, is that we shouldn't be going into the France game with the same pair of centre backs.
 
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Boris the Contradiction said:
I haven't picked Luongo as a defensive midfielder. In that position, his main job is to recycle possession to more incisive players such as Mooy and make occasional runs beyond with Jedinak shielding. Jedinak is in there as the purely defensive midfielder.

I agree with your comments on Mooy, but he is our best player by a mile and is also our best passer (again, by a mile), so I don't want him constrained too much. In our team, he needs the freedom to run the midfield.

I was of the same opinion on Risdon (I was on the Karacic train), but he won me over against Czech Republic. He was excellent and the best of our back four. It's his spot to lose for now.

I didn't pick Kruse as a target man, but more as a false nine but the more I think about it, the more I think that role robs him of his best attribute which is to make runs from wide off the nine. How we could do with Viduka!

Hmmmm. Maybe we just need to drop one of Jedinak or Rogic. As good as Rogic is, I don't think our system suits him. Square peg, round hole and all that. It's a dilemma.

One thing I am sure of, is that we shouldn't be going into the France game with the same pair of centre backs.
Click to expand...

Didn't see the Czech game so I'm interested in your evaluation of Risdon. From what I've seen he has an occasional weakness in losing sight of runs and failing to track whilst ball watching. Seen it half a dozen times now 2 goals conceded. It's a flaw that shouldn't exist at this level and will be exploited

Mooy has heaps of talent and looks a tremendous shiny toy but I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that he stalls play and allows defensive patterns to recreate. It is that feature I believe which has greatly contributed to lack of goals- that and the fact Juric isn't potent enough/ clumsy. Rogic's dribble and taking players on is second to none. His shot is amazing. That ability will create chances more than trying to thread the needle as Mooy does at this level. The standard is too good. Ange dropped Mooy that game for that reason I believe but came back on with the injury and played very well. I'm convinced you cannot go without Rogic in team.

Sainsbury is a class act. Very safe and great distribution. Amongst our best if not our best. Whoever you play next to him will be lower standard and a weakness. We have no one though who can fill that role capably. Milligan looks good mostly but is occasionally left vulnerable with high press- lost possession. Jurman lacks a little pace and a bit clumsy in tackle so not as strong as you want either. Degenek perhaps?

Personally the answer may be to work on Mooys natural game with instruction for faster release.
 
puke said:
Didn't see the Czech game so I'm interested in your evaluation of Risdon. From what I've seen he has an occasional weakness in losing sight of runs and failing to track whilst ball watching. Seen it half a dozen times now 2 goals conceded. It's a flaw that shouldn't exist at this level and will be exploited

Mooy has heaps of talent and looks a tremendous shiny toy but I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that he stalls play and allows defensive patterns to recreate. It is that feature I believe which has greatly contributed to lack of goals- that and the fact Juric isn't potent enough/ clumsy. Rogic's dribble and taking players on is second to none. His shot is amazing. That ability will create chances more than trying to thread the needle as Mooy does at this level. The standard is too good. Ange dropped Mooy that game for that reason I believe but came back on with the injury and played very well. I'm convinced you cannot go without Rogic in team.

Sainsbury is a class act. Very safe and great distribution. Amongst our best if not our best. Whoever you play next to him will be lower standard and a weakness. We have no one though who can fill that role capably. Milligan looks good mostly but is occasionally left vulnerable with high press- lost possession. Jurman lacks a little pace and a bit clumsy in tackle so not as strong as you want either. Degenek perhaps?

Personally the answer may be to work on Mooys natural game with instruction for faster release.
Click to expand...
Mooy has played the whole premier league season as part of the holding midfield 2 in a 4-2-3-1 formation and given this is how BVM is setting up the side that's where Mooy will play for us giving Rogic the CAM role. I think you are over-rating Rogic's ability just ever so slightly, he goes missing in games a lot but has that ability to pull off a moment of brilliance.

It really depends how defensively minded we are though. If we are just parking the bus, we could see a midfield two of Milligan and Jedinak with Sainsbury and Jurman as the centre back and Mooy playing a more defensively minded CAM role. Otherwise the defence and midfield we played against the Czechs will play, with Jedinak possibly coming in for Luongo.
 
corbies said:
Mooy has played the whole premier league season as part of the holding midfield 2 in a 4-2-3-1 formation and given this is how BVM is setting up the side that's where Mooy will play for us giving Rogic the CAM role. I think you are over-rating Rogic's ability just ever so slightly, he goes missing in games a lot but has that ability to pull off a moment of brilliance.

It really depends how defensively minded we are though. If we are just parking the bus, we could see a midfield two of Milligan and Jedinak with Sainsbury and Jurman as the centre back and Mooy playing a more defensively minded CAM role. Otherwise the defence and midfield we played against the Czechs will play, with Jedinak possibly coming in for Luongo.
Click to expand...

I would play:

Leckie
Kruse. Rogic. Luongo

Mooy. Jedinak

Behich. Jurman sainsbury. Degenek

Yes perhaps I overstate Rogics ability but I thought all along his omission and use as late strike weapon was a massive waste when we weren't scoring goals even against weakest opposition

At this level especially the attribute that distinguishes is attacking flair. You take one or two players out with one- one attack then defensive organisation disintegrates. Was why Kewell was good because of his run with attacking ability and shot (despite his dive!!!). In Kruse, Luongo and Rogic you have the 3 best exponents of that in respective attacking roles and ably able to use on rebound which we must adopt because of defensive weakness IMO.

Unsure of work ethic of midfield mix and that's important too. Need at least one perhaps two working tyro's

Whilst attack on rebound is our approach 'parking the bus' as you say is way too defensive. It's bad enough that there is only one target man nowadays then to excacerbate that by having only two support pushing higher makes it nigh on impossible to score and reliant on set pieces really
 
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puke said:
I would play:

Leckie
Kruse. Rogic. Luongo

Mooy. Jedinak

Behich. Jurman sainsbury. Degenek

Yes perhaps I overstate Rogics ability but I thought all along his omission and use as late strike weapon was a massive waste when we weren't scoring goals even against weakest opposition

At this level especially the attribute that distinguishes is attacking flair. You take one or two players out with one- one attack then defensive organisation disintegrates. Was why Kewell was good because of his run with attacking ability and shot (despite his dive!!!). In Kruse, Luongo and Rogic you have the 3 best exponents of that in respective attacking roles and ably able to use on rebound which we must adopt because of defensive weakness IMO.

Unsure of work ethic of midfield mix and that's important too. Need at least one perhaps two working tyro's

Whilst attack on rebound is our approach 'parking the bus' as you say is way too defensive. It's bad enough that there is only one target man nowadays then to excacerbate that by having only two support pushing higher makes it nigh on impossible to score and reliant on set pieces really
Click to expand...

I don't think we'd be able to hold possession well enough in that formation. A midfield three of Rogic, Mooy and Jedinak would get overrun and over the course of the game would get pushed back and be forced to long balls, inviting wave after wave of attack.

If we don't want to park the bus (which we shouldn't), then we need to be able to keep the ball for long enough periods.

Jedinak isn't good enough on the ground and Rogic loses the ball a lot because he attempts a lot of risky balls (which is his strength and should be encouraged).

If Rogic plays, both Mooy and Luongo are necessary in midfield.
 
lewdogs said:
Don't want to sound harsh but I'm so happy that he missed out. Such an incredibly average player.
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Imagine being 1-1 with 2 minutes to go versus Denmark and Troisi going for goal from 30 metres out to blaze it over despite about 3 options ahead of him

Well done Bert
 
Will we go in with the same line up tonight?
Arzani on much earlier?
Cahill a run?
Keep them goalless, we manage a brace, that would be a great outcome.
 
TD2010 said:
Will we go in with the same line up tonight?
Arzani on much earlier?
Cahill a run?
Keep them goalless, we manage a brace, that would be a great outcome.
Click to expand...
I'd be going a different tac, play the outfield players who didn't get a run a go, you don't want them getting no prep before France.

Ryan
Risdon - Sainsbury - Juric - Meredith
Jedinak - Luongo
Leckie - Mooy - Kruse
Cahill/Juric
​
Split the time between the two strikers at the half.
 
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