B Section Premier B - 2012

[bedford]

Apologies Mick

 

[WEST]

Strange Can't see Old Camberwell in Premier B.

 

[Cosmo21]

Let me start by saying this is not sour grapes but an issues that needs to be looked at, SKOB won the game fair and square...

Looking at the VAFA website Buckley is not mentioned so is cleared? I have no idea why he was cleared (at the time I didn't think the incident was worthy of the red card but I’m bias) maybe the "eye" could help us out?

Based on the fact that he was cleared it would be safe to assume he didn't deserve the red card in the first place?

VAFA must look at this issues as it looks like amateur hour (pardon the pun) if a player is sent off not to be replaced then gets cleared at the tribunal!!

I think the umpires have enough power with the yellow card...

 

[man in outer]

Let me start by saying this is not sour grapes but an issues that needs to be looked at, SKOB won the game fair and square...

Looking at the VAFA website Buckley is not mentioned so is cleared? I have no idea why he was cleared (at the time I didn't think the incident was worthy of the red card but I’m bias) maybe the "eye" could help us out?

Based on the fact that he was cleared it would be safe to assume he didn't deserve the red card in the first place?

VAFA must look at this issues as it looks like amateur hour (pardon the pun) if a player is sent off not to be replaced then gets cleared at the tribunal!!

I think the umpires have enough power with the yellow card...

In danger of repeating myself....but the red card was a perfect example of why red cards should be dealt out. As Cosmo said it was maybe a little border line but ceratinly the intent didnt look good. The red card diffuse the situation by discouraging opposition players from the same action....which could go wrong and then we have suburban footy. The biggest point of differentiation is the relative cleaness of the Ammos. The tribunal is not equiped to maintain this, maintain the red card!!! The yellow card is just rubbish and not a penalty is many incidents.

 

[WEST]

Let me start by saying this is not sour grapes but an issues that needs to be looked at, SKOB won the game fair and square...

Looking at the VAFA website Buckley is not mentioned so is cleared? I have no idea why he was cleared (at the time I didn't think the incident was worthy of the red card but I’m bias) maybe the "eye" could help us out?

Based on the fact that he was cleared it would be safe to assume he didn't deserve the red card in the first place?

VAFA must look at this issues as it looks like amateur hour (pardon the pun) if a player is sent off not to be replaced then gets cleared at the tribunal!!

I think the umpires have enough power with the yellow card...

We had similar situation on Sat. with our player getting off last night. BUT that's just how it is. Fortunately we won the game but it is a huge factor playing with one man down.
Yellow card is only to be used for audible obscenity. So the umps have a dilemma. Maybe if their allowed a little leeway they can use the yellow instead of red.

 

[Cosmo21]

In danger of repeating myself....but the red card was a perfect example of why red cards should be dealt out. As Cosmo said it was maybe a little border line but ceratinly the intent didnt look good. The red card diffuse the situation by discouraging opposition players from the same action....which could go wrong and then we have suburban footy. The biggest point of differentiation is the relative cleaness of the Ammos. The tribunal is not equiped to maintain this, maintain the red card!!! The yellow card is just rubbish and not a penalty is many incidents.

Surely you are taking the piss? How is it a good example if the player is found to have done nothing wrong at the tribunal? How does the Red card diffuse the situation any better than a yellow, you dont go running into a pack worring about what color card you are going to get? and getting a red or yellow card afterwards actually only impacts the team not that situation?

 

[Cosmo21]

We had similar situation on Sat. with our player getting off last night. BUT that's just how it is. Fortunately we won the game but it is a huge factor playing with one man down.
Yellow card is only to be used for audible obscenity. So the umps have a dilemma. Maybe if their allowed a little leeway they can use the yellow instead of red.

Good info re the yellow card use (I wasn't aware of that)! Cheers

 

[watchful eye]

Except we don't play in B Grade, bedford.

To put into context, Russell spoke to the playing group out on the ground after the 179 point thumping to Old Camberwell (3 games ago) and said if they're not happy with him, he'll offer to stand down. My suspicions are he was testing them to see if he had their backing. To be fair on him, there's not much more that can be done at the moment. We're simply not up to standard with the group we have.

.....cue Max's comment to take this to the C Grade thread.

Flood to limit the damage?

 

[Max Leader]

Good info re the yellow card use (I wasn't aware of that)! Cheers

A better way to use the Yellow Card.
If a player trasngresses, and an umpires sees it, he may asked the player to utter a f%^k then he is sent off for swearing. Thus resulting in a 12 minute holiday.

If the player refuses to comly, ask him would he prefer a two week holiday.

Simple. Seen it work a treat.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Thats what I was thinking WE, 18 behind the nut!

Cosmo, the rules are the rules are the rules, focus on this week, umpires are not perfect, without them we don't have a game.

 

[man in outer]

Surely you are taking the piss? How is it a good example if the player is found to have done nothing wrong at the tribunal? How does the Red card diffuse the situation any better than a yellow, you dont go running into a pack worring about what color card you are going to get? and getting a red or yellow card afterwards actually only impacts the team not that situation?

1) No 2) The tribunal does not find that the player has done nothing wrong, just dismisses the charge. For the most part for lack of evidence. 3) Of course not but knowing if you whack someone and get seen you will get sent off and thus possiblely lose your team the game makes a difference. Have a look to see how many blokes go storming into the ruckus a through a punch next state of origin. 4) Incentives and consequneces effect all human behaviour. That is all from me. Tough couple of weeks coming up for SKOB, really enjoyed the last few but two tough ones then Matty Kempton's all conquering blacks loom large in round 9. St Bernards showed last year that the contenders can come from anywhere, the season is far from over.

 

[Ron Jeremy 69]

Thats what I was thinking WE, 18 behind the nut!

Cosmo, the rules are the rules are the rules, focus on this week, umpires are not perfect, without them we don't have a game.

Love the idea Brian. Great comment.

That is right up there with the famous watering the ground before a game, starting a fight if the oppo kick two goals in a row and reading poetry to the players before the game.

I think there was a coach once who had this as the cornerstone of his coaching!

 

[Privateye]

1) No 2) The tribunal does not find that the player has done nothing wrong, just dismisses the charge. For the most part for lack of evidence. 3) Of course not but knowing if you whack someone and get seen you will get sent off and thus possiblely lose your team the game makes a difference. Have a look to see how many blokes go storming into the ruckus a through a punch next state of origin. 4) Incentives and consequneces effect all human behaviour. That is all from me. Tough couple of weeks coming up for SKOB, really enjoyed the last few but two tough ones then Matty Kempton's all conquering blacks loom large in round 9. St Bernards showed last year that the contenders can come from anywhere, the season is far from over.

Cosmo, I'd be happy he got off and is right to line up this week - it was pretty reckless but then again one could say that of SKOBs No. 16 "slider" just a minute or so later (got pinged for a later tackle). SKOBs No.3 tangle of feet / push back a minute before (where I think it was the Beaumaris captain got up hobbling) just shows how much was going on.

Uni Blacks by 4 goals+ in the Granny - who goes up with them - I'm favouring Beaumaris. SKOBs to finish the year, along with the two I've mentioned above at least 12 pts clear of 4th on the ladder at end of home and away. Probably favour Werribee and Old Melbourne ahead of Old Haileybury and AJAX.

At the bottom end, Old Ivanhoe to go down with either Oakleigh or Old Brighton, probably Old Brighton to stay up - look to have a bit more firepower than a disappointing Oakleigh.

Ron, you forgot to mention the idea of the lone supporter behind the goals to get the ball back fast or slow depending on who is kicking with the wind and which team is on a roll.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Surely you are taking the piss? How is it a good example if the player is found to have done nothing wrong at the tribunal? How does the Red card diffuse the situation any better than a yellow, you dont go running into a pack worring about what color card you are going to get? and getting a red or yellow card afterwards actually only impacts the team not that situation?

Speak to your mate Buckley and he will tell you that the only reason he got off was that Ben Dowd looked after him at the tribunal, what happens on the field stays on the field…

Who is number 16 and number 3 for SKOB? Surely you jest in not knowing who these two are?

Not sure you can make predictions about who goes up at this stage, a lot can and will happen. Hopefully the 7 SKOB boys who didnt play on the weekend will be in towards the end of the year.

PE, are you the same bloke who has Hawthorn as premiership faves despite being outside the 8? Haven't Beauy lost their last two whilst SKOB are undefeated?

Another question to consider, are Blacks the real deal or are Old Brighton all of a sudden back in town? Scores level in the fourth q until Blacks kicked away.

Werribee are still strong when their VFL boys play, great effort to get over a talented OH team on the weekend.

 

[Ron Jeremy 69]

Speak to your mate Buckley and he will tell you that the only reason he got off was that Ben Dowd looked after him at the tribunal, what happens on the field stays on the field…

Who is number 16 and number 3 for SKOB? Surely you jest in not knowing who these two are?

Not sure you can make predictions about who goes up at this stage, a lot can and will happen. Hopefully the 7 SKOB boys who didnt play on the weekend will be in towards the end of the year.

PE, are you the same bloke who has Hawthorn as premiership faves despite being outside the 8? Haven't Beauy lost their last two whilst SKOB are undefeated?

Another question to consider, are Blacks the real deal or are Old Brighton all of a sudden back in town? Scores level in the fourth q until Blacks kicked away.

Werribee are still strong when their VFL boys play, great effort to get over a talented OH team on the weekend.

After reading this carefully, i have to agree.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Seriously…

 

[Ron Jeremy 69]

Seriously…

Agreed!

 

[Ron Hitler Barassi]

Uni Blacks by 4 goals+ in the Granny - who goes up with them - I'm favouring Beaumaris. SKOBs to finish the year, along with the two I've mentioned above at least 12 pts clear of 4th on the ladder at end of home and away. Probably favour Werribee and Old Melbourne ahead of Old Haileybury and AJAX.

Whoever goes up this year is in for a long year in A Grade next year. Will be a poisoned chalice if I've ever seen one!

 

[Cosmo21]

Uni Blacks by 4 goals+ in the Granny - who goes up with them - I'm favouring Beaumaris. SKOBs to finish the year, along with the two I've mentioned above at least 12 pts clear of 4th on the ladder at end of home and away. Probably favour Werribee and Old Melbourne ahead of Old Haileybury and AJAX.

Whoever goes up this year is in for a long year in A Grade next year. Will be a poisoned chalice if I've ever seen one!

Hitler, you dont rate the B grade comp this year? explain? The two sides that have come down look only middle of the road?

 

[Ron Hitler Barassi]

Uni Blacks by 4 goals+ in the Granny - who goes up with them - I'm favouring Beaumaris. SKOBs to finish the year, along with the two I've mentioned above at least 12 pts clear of 4th on the ladder at end of home and away. Probably favour Werribee and Old Melbourne ahead of Old Haileybury and AJAX.


Hitler, you dont rate the B grade comp this year? explain? The two sides that have come down look only middle of the road?

Cosmo - probably a combination of 2 things. Yes you're right I don't rate the B Grade comp overly highly but by the same token, I do rate the A Grade comp very highly. Massive gulf between the top 7 in A and the top teams in B. I think thats been highlighted by Caulfield's performance this year who, from all reports, were a pretty handy B Grade side last year and showed most teams a clean pair of heels.

In terms of the 2 sides that came down from A last year. OMs lost probably 20 of their best 30 from last year. Any club that lost the likes of Taylor (Vermont), Henley (Vermont), Gardiner (injured), Dunnell (St Kilda), Campbell (Western Bulldogs), Lombardozzi (Frankston), Freezer (Bendigo), Morgan (retired), Davis (retired), Prowse (retired), Young (Wonthaggi), Davidson (retired), Harvey (retired), Nash (Uni Blues), Sengstock (??), Leiws (Marby Park) would struggle the following year, despite going down a grade.

Old Haileybury struggled in A last year and also lost some of their guns (including Voss who was a superstar).

From what I've seen of B Grade this year, none of the sides would make any impact on A Grade with predominantly the same list and it can be detrimental to the long term success of a Club to be promoted too early. Take a look at how Marcelin have gone since being promoted in 2009. They're the last Club to win B when in a relatively weak year IMO.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Makes logacal NON sense when you look at St Bernards, who didnt even win B last year.

 

[Ron Hitler Barassi]

Cosmo - probably a combination of 2 things. Yes you're right I don't rate the B Grade comp overly highly but by the same token, I do rate the A Grade comp very highly. Massive gulf between the top 7 in A and the top teams in B. I think thats been highlighted by Caulfield's performance this year who, from all reports, were a pretty handy B Grade side last year and showed most teams a clean pair of heels.

In terms of the 2 sides that came down from A last year. OMs lost probably 20 of their best 30 from last year. Any club that lost the likes of Taylor (Vermont), Henley (Vermont), Gardiner (injured), Dunnell (St Kilda), Campbell (Western Bulldogs), Lombardozzi (Frankston), Freezer (Bendigo), Morgan (retired), Davis (retired), Prowse (retired), Young (Wonthaggi), Davidson (retired), Harvey (retired), Nash (Uni Blues), Sengstock (??), Leiws (Marby Park) would struggle the following year, despite going down a grade.

Old Haileybury struggled in A last year and also lost some of their guns (including Voss who was a superstar).

From what I've seen of B Grade this year, none of the sides would make any impact on A Grade with predominantly the same list and it can be detrimental to the long term success of a Club to be promoted too early. Take a look at how Marcelin have gone since being promoted in 2009. They're the last Club to win B when in a relatively weak year IMO.

Sorry, should clarify. A year where there has been no standout teams in B Section

 

[Ron Jeremy 69]

Makes logacal NON sense when you look at St Bernards, who didnt even win B last year.

Have to agree Brian.

Makes no sense.

 

[FWIW]

Cosmo - probably a combination of 2 things. Yes you're right I don't rate the B Grade comp overly highly but by the same token, I do rate the A Grade comp very highly. Massive gulf between the top 7 in A and the top teams in B. I think thats been highlighted by Caulfield's performance this year who, from all reports, were a pretty handy B Grade side last year and showed most teams a clean pair of heels.

In terms of the 2 sides that came down from A last year. OMs lost probably 20 of their best 30 from last year. Any club that lost the likes of Taylor (Vermont), Henley (Vermont), Gardiner (injured), Dunnell (St Kilda), Campbell (Western Bulldogs), Lombardozzi (Frankston), Freezer (Bendigo), Morgan (retired), Davis (retired), Prowse (retired), Young (Wonthaggi), Davidson (retired), Harvey (retired), Nash (Uni Blues), Sengstock (??), Leiws (Marby Park) would struggle the following year, despite going down a grade.

Old Haileybury struggled in A last year and also lost some of their guns (including Voss who was a superstar).

From what I've seen of B Grade this year, none of the sides would make any impact on A Grade with predominantly the same list and it can be detrimental to the long term success of a Club to be promoted too early. Take a look at how Marcelin have gone since being promoted in 2009. They're the last Club to win B when in a relatively weak year IMO.

For what it's worth - Maybe OM's should try and build a side with youth instead of importing teams e.g 2008 B Section and last year in A.

 

[darwinderwin]

Cosmo - probably a combination of 2 things. Yes you're right I don't rate the B Grade comp overly highly but by the same token, I do rate the A Grade comp very highly. Massive gulf between the top 7 in A and the top teams in B. I think thats been highlighted by Caulfield's performance this year who, from all reports, were a pretty handy B Grade side last year and showed most teams a clean pair of heels.

In terms of the 2 sides that came down from A last year. OMs lost probably 20 of their best 30 from last year. Any club that lost the likes of Taylor (Vermont), Henley (Vermont), Gardiner (injured), Dunnell (St Kilda), Campbell (Western Bulldogs), Lombardozzi (Frankston), Freezer (Bendigo), Morgan (retired), Davis (retired), Prowse (retired), Young (Wonthaggi), Davidson (retired), Harvey (retired), Nash (Uni Blues), Sengstock (??), Leiws (Marby Park) would struggle the following year, despite going down a grade.

Old Haileybury struggled in A last year and also lost some of their guns (including Voss who was a superstar).

From what I've seen of B Grade this year, none of the sides would make any impact on A Grade with predominantly the same list and it can be detrimental to the long term success of a Club to be promoted too early. Take a look at how Marcelin have gone since being promoted in 2009. They're the last Club to win B when in a relatively weak year IMO.

Brian and Ron, I tend to agree with what Barass has said, to a certain degree. The gulf between A and B is large. However, blaming OM's average season thus far (no offence to OM's supporters on this forum) on losing players is exactly what a majority of clubs go through when demoted. But, the same principle can be applied to promotion, in that it is a lot easier to attract high quality players to an A grade club over a B grade club.

Lets look at Melbourne Uni. Say you come from the counrty or interstate and you think of yourself as a fairly reasonable footballer and want to play footy at the highest level. Without meeting either club a friend tells you that the Blues play in 'A' and the Blacks play in 'B', well already a player who wants to play at the highest level will naturally look at the Blues first.

The same can be applied for almost all the clubs in this competition. Do I play at OM's or Powerhouse? (I know this one is a bit of a stretch, but you get the idea).

And when it comes time to recruit, no matter who you target, it is easier to sell an A section team than a B section team. I realise that not one or two players win you a whole bunch of games, but they can make a difference.

At the end of the day, no one year is the same as the next, and predicting that the clubs who will be promoted to A section will fare poorly in 2013 is getting a bit ahead of where things are at. Amateur footy varies so much from year to year!