NSW Premier "iCare" Perrottet and the Libs' Poison Chalice

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LukeParkerno1

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I'd tend to go with what a group like Ozsage is advising. It's not so much about the length of lockdown, but the question of whether or not all measures are in place to prevent the spread in vulnerable cohorts with the lockdown lifting. They believe we're dangerously underprepared. Even with 90% vaccination, that's still a hell of a lot of people that can get sick, enough to put severe strain on hospitals and paramedics. That'd be roughly 800,000 unvaccinated people in NSW.

So give us a date, come off it, yay lets keep us not living for even longer, bet the election will go swell if you do that. A date shouldn't be that hard. We have dates with the opening plan that were more than fair and gave us specific targets which we have smashed and other states are smashing well maybe aside from WA but who knows there haven't looked at WA for months, have zero interest in travelling there.
 

The Cryptkeeper

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I'd tend to go with what a group like Ozsage is advising. It's not so much about the length of lockdown, but the question of whether or not all measures are in place to prevent the spread in vulnerable cohorts with the lockdown lifting. They believe we're dangerously underprepared. Even with 90% vaccination, that's still a hell of a lot of people that can get sick, enough to put severe strain on hospitals and paramedics. That'd be roughly 800,000 unvaccinated people in NSW.

Mate, the days of compliance are over so what Ozsage is suggesting is simply not workable. I have had a read over what they propose and that would mean effectively being locked down until booster shots are administered, domestically eliminating the virus and then dealing quickly with "imported" outbreaks. That proposition would take another 12 months at a minimum and we'd be in full on anarchy by then.

Ozsage is nice and warm and fuzzy. Ideologically it's great. But is it absolutely impractical as an objective.
 

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Happy Mastenator

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Well I'm sticking with the experts and the medical professionals. Yes everyone is wrong sometimes, even the experts, but they are still the experts, not bloody politicians who have sold themselves to the highest bidders, or anonymous unaccountable posters like us.
Don't get me wrong i'm all for listening to the experts, just think we "might" get away with it thanks to the fantastic rates of vaccination. So don't be surprised if don't see a big spike in hospitalizations.
 

LukeParkerno1

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Mate, the days of compliance are over so what Ozsage is suggesting is simply not workable. I have had a read over what they propose and that would mean effectively being locked down until booster shots are administered, domestically eliminating the virus and then dealing quickly with "imported" outbreaks. That proposition would take another 12 months at a minimum and we'd be in full on anarchy by then.

Ozsage is nice and warm and fuzzy. Ideologically it's great. But is it absolutely impractical as an objective.
We would be the laughing stock of the world if we went down that route. Just imagine being too scared to open up for well over 3 years by then..
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
Mate, the days of compliance are over so what Ozsage is suggesting is simply not workable. I have had a read over what they propose and that would mean effectively being locked down until booster shots are administered, domestically eliminating the virus and then dealing quickly with "imported" outbreaks. That proposition would take another 12 months at a minimum and we'd be in full on anarchy by then.

Ozsage is nice and warm and fuzzy. Ideologically it's great. But is it absolutely impractical as an objective.
I'd say they're the opposite of warm and fuzzy. Only prepared to make the tough calls.
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
So give us a date, come off it, yay lets keep us not living for even longer, bet the election will go swell if you do that. A date shouldn't be that hard. We have dates with the opening plan that were more than fair and gave us specific targets which we have smashed and other states are smashing well maybe aside from WA but who knows there haven't looked at WA for months, have zero interest in travelling there.
Well the point is, there's no point talking about a date if the appropriate measures aren't in place.

I've been saying all along. We can't just suddenly say that everything's fine now, when it clearly is not, and there is a looming crisis.

You seem to be putting great stock in the power of positive affirmations, with bugger all reality to back them up. Viruses don't give a stuff about anyone's positive affirmations.
 

The Cryptkeeper

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I'd say they're the opposite of warm and fuzzy. Only prepared to make the tough calls.
Ideologically warm and fuzzy is what I meant. And it is.

But it's impractical and impossible. so the perception of "tough calls" is a nonsense in this instance. It looks tough until you realise that it is "pie in the sky" stuff. In what universe do you think the population is goin to tolerate to be locked down until booster shots are rolled out because that is what is being suggested? Jeez, I am a fully vaccinated, left-leaning pacifist but I'll willingly help the crazies tear the joint down if this goes on much longer.
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
We would be the laughing stock of the world if we went down that route. Just imagine being too scared to open up for well over 3 years by then..
Just imagine being too scared to admit we have a global pandemic on our hands, the biggest in a century, which has already delivered one far more contagious variant, may well deliver more, and the long-term effects of which we know little about but have good reason to fear they may be considerable.

But yeah, I want to go to the races so none of that matters.
 

LukeParkerno1

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Well the point is, there's no point talking about a date if the appropriate measures aren't in place.

I've been saying all along. We can't just suddenly say that everything's fine now, when it clearly is not, and there is a looming crisis.

You seem to be putting great stock in the power of positive affirmations, with bugger all reality to back them up. Viruses don't give a stuff about anyone's positive affirmations.
So as usual no date given...yes lock down forever that will keep you happy right. Here is an idea if you love being locked down you can stay in your home and not come out, the rest of us will want to get back to living.

Where have we ever said everything is fine. It is just a new normal, we are heading towards 85% or higher double dose nation wide, probably more, that is more than enough. Glad you aren't making the rules for NSW, we wouldn't be able to travel for ANOTHER 2+ years....
 

The Cryptkeeper

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Well the point is, there's no point talking about a date if the appropriate measures aren't in place.

I've been saying all along. We can't just suddenly say that everything's fine now, when it clearly is not, and there is a looming crisis.

You seem to be putting great stock in the power of positive affirmations, with bugger all reality to back them up. Viruses don't give a stuff about anyone's positive affirmations.
It's not fine mate but it is what we have.

The likes of Ozsage putting forward unworkable solutions helps nobody.
 

The Cryptkeeper

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Just imagine being too scared to admit we have a global pandemic on our hands, the biggest in a century, which has already delivered one far more contagious variant, may well deliver more, and the long-term effects of which we know little about but have good reason to fear they may be considerable.

But yeah, I want to go to the races so none of that matters.
It's not about going to the races mate. Come on...plenty of us have loved ones interstate that we have not seen in months. Livelihoods are going to the wall.

We are literally missing out on living life now to protect whackjobs who refuse to get vaccinated. F*** them.
 

LukeParkerno1

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Just imagine being too scared to admit we have a global pandemic on our hands, the biggest in a century, which has already delivered one far more contagious variant, may well deliver more, and the long-term effects of which we know little about but have good reason to fear they may be considerable.

But yeah, I want to go to the races so none of that matters.
Damn straight I want to actually be able to live my life and politicians can bugger off and stop telling us we need to be locked down. When everyone that wants the jab has had the opportunity that's it that is the end point. You seem to want to be locked down forever.
 

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SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
Damn straight I want to actually be able to live my life and politicians can bugger off and stop telling us we need to be locked down. When everyone that wants the jab has had the opportunity that's it that is the end point. You seem to want to be locked down forever.
Your issue is not with "politicians" but with the scientific reality. No-one else can help you with that.
 

Carn The Berries

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Just imagine being too scared to admit we have a global pandemic on our hands, the biggest in a century, which has already delivered one far more contagious variant, may well deliver more, and the long-term effects of which we know little about but have good reason to fear they may be considerable.

But yeah, I want to go to the races so none of that matters.
I don't think anyone who posts on this board, regardless of their political or social beliefs, is "too scared to admit we have a global pandemic on our hands". This isn't a black and white argument and it is entirely justifiable for people to question the suggestion that we should remain in some form of lockdown until everyone has a booster shot.

I'm sure the people who have businesses that are currently closed are really worried about going to the races....
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
I don't think anyone who posts on this board, regardless of their political or social beliefs, is "too scared to admit we have a global pandemic on our hands". This isn't a black and white argument and it is entirely justifiable for people to question the suggestion that we should remain in some form of lockdown until everyone has a booster shot.

I'm sure the people who have businesses that are currently closed are really worried about going to the races....
Yeah but my point is there is a wider consideration than individual hardship. If we're talking individual hardship, my means of earning a living is completely shattered. I want nothing more than for normality to return. But we jump the gun now, and that "normality" is going to be very short-lived. And NO-ONE is going to be inclined to be co-operative then.

The unavoidable reality is, Perrottet has never explained why the medical facts that existed on Friday when Gladys was premier were suddenly not medical facts on Monday.
 

Carn The Berries

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Yeah but my point is there is a wider consideration than individual hardship. If we're talking individual hardship, my means of earning a living is completely shattered. I want nothing more than for normality to return. But we jump the gun now, and that "normality" is going to be very short-lived. And NO-ONE is going to be inclined to be co-operative then.

The unavoidable reality is, Perrottet has never explained why the medical facts that existed on Friday when Gladys was premier were suddenly not medical facts on Monday.
There is a fair chasm between the current plan for NSW and what that article is advocating. My response wasn't advocating for NSW's actions, it was pointing out that the evidence you provided is no less hysterical (and arguably inappropriate/impractical).

The races reference doesn't help garner any support for taking things a bit slower either.
 

RW

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I think we might be alright (in NSW), simply because the sheer numbers of those vaccinated is so high. Didn't think we'd be looking at mid 90's like we are. We might just make it straight past that danger zone of a significant number vaccinated, but still a large unvaxxed number.
Tend to agree, Australians have generally shown a willingness to get vaccinated in high numbers. Perrottet is still a campaigner though.
 

Gethelred

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Is it true free will or limited options due to poverty though
This'd be something you'd have to research, and over genuinely long spans of time with large samples. Don't think it's an area you'd get any answers, because there is no interest from any side of things into looking too hard at the reality of it. Those who think it's their choice don't want to look too hard because it might prove them wrong; those who think it should be banned due to exploitation and/or moral considerations want to take their shots without much by way of evidence to disprove them.

Going back to my uni days, studied a subject called the History of Sex, which was more the history of social control and discussion of sexual matters. Was bloody interesting, and IIRC at the very least in Australia there's been a decent amount of effort on the part of government to ensure that the legal sexwork done was kept to standard rates and exploitation was kept to a minimum.

'Kept to a minumum', though, doesn't mean it never happens.
 

FredLeDeux

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This'd be something you'd have to research, and over genuinely long spans of time with large samples. Don't think it's an area you'd get any answers, because there is no interest from any side of things into looking too hard at the reality of it. Those who think it's their choice don't want to look too hard because it might prove them wrong; those who think it should be banned due to exploitation and/or moral considerations want to take their shots without much by way of evidence to disprove them.

Going back to my uni days, studied a subject called the History of Sex, which was more the history of social control and discussion of sexual matters. Was bloody interesting, and IIRC at the very least in Australia there's been a decent amount of effort on the part of government to ensure that the legal sexwork done was kept to standard rates and exploitation was kept to a minimum.

'Kept to a minumum', though, doesn't mean it never happens.
All good points.
But I'll tell you one thing; the chances of success for the Spanish initiative stand at about the same level as Prohibition did in 1930s USA.
 

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