Premierships open to fastest best tackling side in 2018 ... or Hocking the key!

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Apr 12, 2010
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I'm failing to see the "problem".

I like the way the Tigers play, and want to see more of it. They haven't been afforded any unfair advantages, I would much prefer that the other teams are tasked with trying to beat them, rather than rules be changed to quell the effectiveness of their gameplan.

I think the problem is though that to beat them, you just go harder and faster.
Then to beat that, even harder and even faster.
And so on.
 
Jun 23, 2008
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I think the problem is though that to beat them, you just go harder and faster.
Then to beat that, even harder and even faster.
And so on.

So?

There'll reach a point where it's either not sustainable, or it is overcome by different tactics. Let that evolution happen naturally though, rather than treating a team figuring out a way (within the rules) to be better as a "problem" that needs to be fixed.

The real "problem" was that the game was tactically primitive and dumb for a very long time, and team defensive efforts and structures were virtually nonexistent. This has skewed people's thinking into believing that the "right" way to play the game is without the defensive side, and that might be true from an aesthetic perspective, depending on your tastes. However, we can't devolve from where we've gotten to, without heavily manufacturing a different game again. Players and coaches aren't going to go away from what works and what wins, and nor should they IMO.
 
Aug 25, 2005
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So?

There'll reach a point where it's either not sustainable, or it is overcome by different tactics. Let that evolution happen naturally though, rather than treating a team figuring out a way (within the rules) to be better as a "problem" that needs to be fixed.

The real "problem" was that the game was tactically primitive and dumb for a very long time, and team defensive efforts and structures were virtually nonexistent. This has skewed people's thinking into believing that the "right" way to play the game is without the defensive side, and that might be true from an aesthetic perspective, depending on your tastes. However, we can't devolve from where we've gotten to, without heavily manufacturing a different game again. Players and coaches aren't going to go away from what works and what wins, and nor should they IMO.
It's not the fact that a team's better that's seen as a problem.

It's the fact that this has been brewing for a decade, and some would say culminated in the dullest, and most boring and 'unwatchable' finals series ever seen.

The blueprint is to prevent the opposition from executing a decent skill level, and to stop them from scoring.

Not to bring a higher skill level yourself, and not to outscore your opponent as such - but to try to play as close to a Nil-All Draw as possible.


The final scores are what made season 2016 and 2017 interesting. Which basically creates a 'check the scores' culture around the sport - and that's not a good direction for the sport to be heading in.
 

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Apr 12, 2010
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So?

There'll reach a point where it's either not sustainable, or it is overcome by different tactics. Let that evolution happen naturally though, rather than treating a team figuring out a way (within the rules) to be better as a "problem" that needs to be fixed.

The real "problem" was that the game was tactically primitive and dumb for a very long time, and team defensive efforts and structures were virtually nonexistent. This has skewed people's thinking into believing that the "right" way to play the game is without the defensive side, and that might be true from an aesthetic perspective, depending on your tastes. However, we can't devolve from where we've gotten to, without heavily manufacturing a different game again. Players and coaches aren't going to go away from what works and what wins, and nor should they IMO.

Yeah totally respect what you have to say here, and factually, you are spot on.

My opinion however is that one of the great things that has set the code apart is focus on contests, skills, and rewarding risk taking over structure.

An American mate told me college football is better to watch than the NFL, because the NFL players are so good that skills are taken for granted, often nullified, and it just comes down to who can execute a better plan. College football is more exciting because skillful play is not taken for granted so can be enjoyed.

Yes Aussie rules is strategically and tactically primitive. But I just hope the evolution of the game continues to reward risk taking, skill and attack; over risk avoidance, structure and defence. (Like most sports end up)
 

Hawk_francais

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Sep 20, 2015
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Like Fremantle's 2013 "manic pressure, the likes of which I've never seen before" kind of pressure? (Thanks David Parkin for that observation). Next week the Hawks played keepings off for the first half of the Grand Final.

Adelaide didn't execute their game plan well enough, Tigers executed theirs perfectly. Same story last year, it doesn't mean that pressure always wins.
 
Jun 23, 2008
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It’s easy. Minimise rotations. Games will be so much better to watch.

Will quite obviously lead to more tired players and sloppier skill execution, and greater risk of injuries and accumulated fatigue.

These negatives didn't happen in the past pre-interchange, because players weren't full-time professionals, and the expected work rate wasn't nearly the same. And kick-to-kick to contests was boring as batshit too.
 
OK. I'll talk about the tigers cause I know them.

1) The backline went from very good AFL players through to a guys contending for all time great KPB. Very well organized and played as a unit. So huge thing there that is hard to copy. So to try and have a more attacking game do you want to neuter defenders. that would suck. the skill of Rance in killing almost certain goals is awesome to watch. Astbury outbodying his opponent is fantastic. I don't want to see a game where if the defender has a red hot go it's a free kick to the forward. I want to see a genuine even contest, best man wins.
2) The midfield was very good. Dusty and Cotch leading, with a deep group of talented players (Prestia verging on A grade as well). Nice balance of inside outside, run and carry, contested, defense and attack. You have to have this to contend, much less win a GF. This is no. 1 thing any club should be trying to create. I would argue that Adelaide's midfield was equal to Richmond's. The tigers played a defensive style, but with a focus on all out attack when they got the ball out and in control. I cannot see where the problem is here. Great stuff! But the tigers also had multiple small forwards + jack coming into the midfield. these guys created extra pressure and miss matches. See below
3) The forward line was weird and very focused on stopping the oppo moving the ball out. The RFC has been stockpiling fast small forwards, with elite endurance for their pace. What that leads to is a game style that emphasizes running and pressure. Firstly because it creates turnovers and extra opportunities. But most importantly it leads to the opposition forwards having to run themselves into the ground to stop the tiger forwards creating miss matches through the middle and then bringing the ball in fast to score, and the oppo forwards have to run like crazy to support their teammates. Staying back to be defensive isn't much use if your teammates are outnumbered and the Tigers can get the ball and move it in with little pressure. So when you see the games toward the end of the H&A and finals, the pattern is of a wrestle followed by Tiger dominance as they simply out run the oppo in the 2nd half. That is based on players with certain physical traits - fast and endurance. Because they have an intrinsic advantage these players will be advantaged by reducing interchange. yes, they won't be able to maintain the high level of pressure. But comparatively they will outperform as they will slow down less than players that naturally as less capable at running. Very much like the Hawks picked the eyes out of the draft for kicking skills, and so used a keepings off style.

The Tigers success, and I suspect the Dogs, is due to having squads that were skilled a disciplined. But also they created a point of difference. That point of difference is to be celebrated. It ensures the game changes and grows.

Trying to artificially limit the ability of players to run and pressure runs into the problem that some other game plan will be developed. And trying to limit defense is self defeating. Seeing lots of goals is great. But if it is just kick to kick, with little physical pressure I would be very unhappy.

In the end to with the premiership you have to out score the opposition. That is incredibly hard to do if you are purely defensive. That pure defense wasn't what happened this year. It was a balanced approach. But an approach that took years to develop, and requires many fast endurance runners, with total discipline across the team. Limiting interchange won't change that these guys have that physical advantage.

Just like the great Lions team were bigger and stronger and so physically outmuscled their opponents. The Hawks were better kicks and so could control the ball. It's a good thing.
 

PowerForGood

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Maybe we have been saying that Aussie Rules is the best game in the world because for so long it has been tactically naive.

Can say that Aussie Rules is still the best game of the world, but AFL might not be.
 

HTPunter

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Sep 27, 2014
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The game was a disgrace and ugly circa 2005-2009 as Paul and Ross made it a maul. Thankfully, we were saved by the Cats.

And then because the game was ugly we decided to add a sub, with only 3 interchanges in 2011.

And then the game was ugly and skilled players were being affected, so we limited interchanges to 120 in 2014.

And then the game was still ugly, so we got rid of the sub and made it 90 interchanges.

So let's make another rule change without giving the game time to develop naturally like it did for 100 ******* years before this decade of changes. Each new 'era' has been formed to counteract the old 'era' and improved on, before the next era comes along. Why not wait FFS?
 

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HTPunter

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None of this drastic s**t like 1 rest per player per quarter has ANY evidence whatsoever to back up claims that it will somehow improve the game..

If anything, it'll result in teams going for the endurance blokes who only need 1 rest.
 
Aug 13, 2006
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1. Great backline:
Tigers backline are great. Other teams playing the same style of defending wouldn't be able to limit scores and obviously Richmond struggle to score early in games as well. The way GWS played in the first half against Richmond in the Prelim was good enough for them to be 5 goals up on any other side IMO.

2. Great fitness:
Without elite endurance not only would the forward pressure be less effective but the ball movement the Tigers used to keep the game flowing and fast would be far more risky and error prone as well.

Richmond's game style really was chaotic and fast pace and relied on the notion they could do it for longer whilst holding the other team from scoring.

Being a great defensive team and the fittest/healthiest side left in it is a great recipe for success and one I believe in. Copying the Tigers game style exactly is not something I believe in.
 

Jables

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Jun 16, 2008
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Every single premiership team has been heralded as a manic tackling high pressure team. What's new?
Can the Hawks deal with the Dockers/Swans/Eagles pressure on GF day? Memories. The narrative shifts so quickly as if your team reinvented the wheel by being more intense on GF day and during finals in general. Every team in the AFL already strives to be the team with the most pressure.
 

living_in_syd

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May 2, 2009
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To be honest we lucked out with the players we have and played to their strengths.

Our forward line is obviously quick. And we have plenty in the reserves to come in.

What people dont realise is our backline is quick. Except for astbury, every one has speed like rance and grimes to play big and small. Very versitile to combat quick forwardlines.
 

Hawk_francais

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Sep 20, 2015
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People talk about tackling and applying pressure as though it’s a game plan.

Richmond are not 10-20% fitter or better at tackling than any other team in the comp.
Spot on. King's 'pressure factor' is the most air-headed analysis going around. As if the Crows were saying "alright boys, we've gotta keep them under 200 on the pressure scale if we're any chance."

We very rarely sit here talking about the fantastic pressure applied by the losing team. It's not a strategy, it's more like a symptom of a strategy that's working.
 
May 13, 2008
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Dogs and Tigers have won the last 2 premierships by overwhelming their opposition with relentless pressure. Beating sides which technically are better equipped with highly skilled players but unable to handle the extreme pressure of multiple players hunting in packs to tackle and force pressured turnovers.

Fitter, Faster, Stronger ... the game will keep heading in this direction unless a way can be found to tire and slow down players. The ball is now in Steve Hockings court ... the time has come to seriously reduce rotations otherwise expect more of the same where brutally aggressive fast tackling will continue to impact on the leagues most skilled players.

The best team got smacked by 8 goals in the grand final ... I love that it happened and will live off the satisfaction for years to come, but the AFL should take it as a warning.

So you are telling me that a team with a s**t load of talent who was harder and more committed than everyone else won the whole thing?

Well **** me :eek:
 

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