Game Day Preseason Game 1 - West Coast vs Adelaide, Sat 2/3 : It’s Melt Day

[Bleedblueandgold]

Will be the season for the youth to stake their claim as the main core of the club.
Ginbey, Hall, Hewett, Culley and Burgiel still to be added to the ones that played today like Reid, Rawlinson, Hough, Long, Maric and Dewar.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Sometimes i forget Sheed even exists tbh.

If the new manager quietly cut him in the offseason, would anyone even notice, or care?

 

[Wild Kelly]

Sometimes i forget Sheed even exists tbh.

If the new manager quietly cut him in the offseason, would anyone even notice, or care?

Quite sure the feeling's mutual...

 

[amazingjoshy]

I don’t reckon they do though. Jamesion and Barnett (both of whom we’re not even sure are WAFL standard yet) both went in there instead of Williams and we looked 10x better when he wasn’t jumping 10 feet high and missing the ball completely.

That was from 2 kids that just competed. Now imagine one of those who actually wins hitouts to advantage and is good following up. That’s Flynn.

He might not be Cox but O’Brien isn’t either and was handing the ball to the Adelaide mids on a plate.

Still see that as a setup/coaching failure more than anything else. We had Kelly, Yeo and Reid in there for alot of the first qtr with BW.

They're all good enough players to read ROBs taps or at the very least, sit on their oppos tails and not let them get clean clearances away, IF they are being told to set up more defensively.

But instead they were setting up in that first qtr as if it was NN still rucking not Bailey Williams and the Crom were just waltzing it out the other end over and over again.

Now its a praccy game and I get they may be trying stuff but to let it go as long as they did with no adjustment is a real concern and it's not as if it's just isolated to today's game.

(Also quite telling that one of the cleanest clearances our way today was with Edwards rucking because Barnett forgot to go in)

 

[ROO DOGG]

How many goals came from basic skill errors and poor execution?

L Edwards wont be in defence round 1, J Jones will.

Mentioned a change to ruck rules and using your knee to block early. They even described the rule change benefits bigger rucks not jumping rucks.

We looked pretty average and made so many errors. Hard to watch.

Harley on ball looked ok, he worked into the game. Maybe with more mids returning he will play the flanks as well rotating.

Yeo looked short of a run but kept going.

Allen woukd help the forward line get organised.

Going to be a tough year. Juast want those green shoots to keep growing.

Harley just ok??? I thaught he was f$ck$n excellent considering it was his second game against seasoned AFL players. Like some others have said, he won his own ball, not seagull easy stat padders. Cant wait to see him after 5 pre seasons.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

I get the Flynn injury is a huge kick in the balls, but let's not pretend he's Dean Cox. Our clearance issues go much deeper than just missing a middling AFL ruckman (who hasn't actually played a game for us)

If anything it should be easier to setup knowing we aren't winning many of the taps. Just bad coaching/setups if we aren't working on more defensive structures at the clearances.

Hoping the regular season is different and today was just plying around with things

It’s just that we need to halve more than we do. We’ll win some hitouts over the course a season, but the problem is how many we decisively lose with no chance of laying a glove on the opposing midfield attack.

Flynn/Williams rotation gave us a much much better chance of more halved ruck battles, which is where we’re at right now. We’re not in the silver service and waltz out phase of our ruck room, but just getting rolled at every stoppage or having to set up ultra defensive doesn’t help the kids’ development.

 

[eagles rule]

Good to finally see some footy I thought we had a good hit out even though the margin blew out a bit ..



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[amazingjoshy]

It’s just that we need to halve more than we do. We’ll win some hitouts over the course a season, but the problem is how many we decisively lose with no chance of laying a glove on the opposing midfield attack.

Flynn/Williams rotation gave us a much much better chance of more halved ruck battles, which is where we’re at right now. We’re not in the silver service and waltz out phase of our ruck room, but just getting rolled at every stoppage or having to set up ultra defensive doesn’t help the kids’ development.

Agree that Flynn/Williams combo looked promising, but we don't have Flynn now for 2-3 months.

Just letting it get walked out of the middle for an entire qtr does nothing for development either.

When Flynn comes back adjust things back for now we have BW and we shouldn't be setting up as if we have Nic Nat in the ruck. I'm not sure what anyone gets out of that (apart from the oppo)

 

[WCEswift]

I do wonder if the mids were told to just chill out with winning the contested ball in the middle, because i dont think i saw any of our mids put there heads down and go in hard like they would for a game for 4 points

 

[squashface]

I do wonder if the mids were told to just chill out with winning the contested ball in the middle, because i dont think i saw any of our mids put there heads down and go in hard like they would for a game for 4 points

You must not be familiar with 2023

 

[garlic munchers]

Still see that as a setup/coaching failure more than anything else. We had Kelly, Yeo and Reid in there for alot of the first qtr with BW.

They're all good enough players to read ROBs taps or at the very least, sit on their oppos tails and not let them get clean clearances away, IF they are being told to set up more defensively.

But instead they were setting up in that first qtr as if it was NN still rucking not Bailey Williams and the Crom were just waltzing it out the other end over and over again.

Now its a praccy game and I get they may be trying stuff but to let it go as long as they did with no adjustment is a real concern and it's not as if it's just isolated to today's game.

(Also quite telling that one of the cleanest clearances our way today was with Edwards rucking because Barnett forgot to go in)

Just watching the replay (instant regret) and whoever is responsible (won’t be Simmo as he is our coach for group hugs) for our structuring at stoppages is bloody clueless.

It may have been the players initially, but if the coaches can’t identify an issue and communicate a remedy then what use are they?

Ruckman starting behind, aggressive mid set up when you are 2 nil, 5 nil, 10 nil down in centre clearances alone, Fwds starting behind (can’t just say OA’s not there so oh well), allowing the Crows to pull Barrass up and out of the defensive 50 and then effortlessly leaving him floundering where he can’t impact in front of goal where he’s at his best, slow sideways movement out of the backline etc etc.

Seem to recall we spent the whole preseason training to adopt a more direct through the corridor ball movement, but come an actual game, it’s would be giving a deer in the spotlight a bad name to say that’s an apt comparison.

So many similarities to the Demons at their lowest point, when the players were just going through the motions (ie Kelly).

Just can’t see Simmo lasting the season, it’s joyless.

Solutions?

Maybe a Ross Lyon ultra defensive approach (it’s not like we are losing in a shoot out anyway), McGovern fwd (at least everyone inc Gov, will have some fun seeing him fly and takes pressure off OA), MSD maybe the best VFL mid available, finish last again and hope the AFL intervenes as we simply will not be able to engineer enough draft picks to turn this around (i.e. Roos with McKay and you just know how the Zurhar free agency will play out).

 

[InTheWings]

My takeaways

+ve:
*Harley is as advertised. A Grader at a minimum and loves the rough stuff. Could tell he thrived on it
*Hough is a beauty and a steal for where we picked him
*Long is always in the right spots. Quiet day but is just quality
*Despite the hate, there's something to work with with Jamo imo. Was competitive in the ruck and I thought good again in defence
*Yeo and Kelly are still quality players in this league
*Gov and Barass are exceptional key defenders and we'd lose by alot more without either playing given our midfield woes
*Barnett looked decent in the ruck given his age
*Thought Petch was good despite getting caught cold a couple of times
*seemingly no injuries

-ve:
*With guys like Yeo and Kelly starting in the centre square, we should never be 13-0 or whatever it was down on clearances. Set up more defensively (at least while Flynn is out) Not rocket science
*We concede so many transition scores from kick ins without even touching the ball. What the hell are we doing (or not doing) defensively when we kick a point?
*Im a Williams fan but he was poor today
*as above with Maric apart from that one pass
*Duggan was laughably bad. Maybe trying too hard as captain but directly cost at least 3 goals from bad turnovers
*Cole was generally ok but also cost at least 2 goals from simple errors.Cant have pur senior players regularly doing this
*going to be a hell of a long year again

IMO when we had Jetta and Shepherd, Cole was more effective. Without those guys, he has been found wanting.

 

[maverick001]

Good s**t.

On Rory Laird no less - the best/2nd best tackler in the AFL

 

[ROO DOGG]

Just watching the replay (instant regret) and whoever is responsible (won’t be Simmo as he is our coach for group hugs) for our structuring at stoppages is bloody clueless.

It may have been the players initially, but if the coaches can’t identify an issue and communicate a remedy then what use are they?

Ruckman starting behind, aggressive mid set up when you are 2 nil, 5 nil, 10 nil down in centre clearances alone, Fwds starting behind (can’t just say OA’s not there so oh well), allowing the Crows to pull Barrass up and out of the defensive 50 and then effortlessly leaving him floundering where he can’t impact in front of goal where he’s at his best, slow sideways movement out of the backline etc etc.

Seem to recall we spent the whole preseason training to adopt a more direct through the corridor ball movement, but come an actual game, it’s would be giving a deer in the spotlight a bad name to say that’s an apt comparison.

So many similarities to the Demons at their lowest point, when the players were just going through the motions (ie Kelly).

Just can’t see Simmo lasting the season, it’s joyless.

Solutions?

Maybe a Ross Lyon ultra defensive approach (it’s not like we are losing in a shoot out anyway), McGovern fwd (at least everyone inc Gov, will have some fun seeing him fly and takes pressure off OA), MSD maybe the best VFL mid available, finish last again and hope the AFL intervenes as we simply will not be able to engineer enough draft picks to turn this around (i.e. Roos with McKay and you just know how the Zurhar free agency will play out).

I will rather loose by 10 goals than adopt anything Ross Lyon does.

 

[maverick001]

Loved seeing Reid and Chesser playing so well. L Edwards did basically nothing in the first half but was much better in the second, good signs there. Quiet game by Long but good in glimpses. The kids are gonna be alright and that’s the main thing we should really be taking out of these hitouts.

Gaff didn’t set the world on fire and still has obvious limitations but was better than some posters are letting on. His hard running off the ball is going to be important for us considering how often the ball is in our defensive 50

What'd you like about Chesser's game? I only saw a quarter but wasn't noticing him. Stats weren't great but that's not everything

 

[Astro7]

IMO when we had Jetta and Shepherd, Cole was more effective. Without those guys, he has been found wanting.

Yep, same with Duggan...both had years of footy, premiership players and bog average skills.

 

[Big_Birdy]

What'd you like about Chesser's game? I only saw a quarter but wasn't noticing him. Stats weren't great but that's not everything

I’m not the poster you replied to, but for me he won a lot of one on one contests. Couple of times he managed to push off more seasoned players to allow our player to win the ball (who sometimes fumbled it). Did some nice spoils on the air too.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

I’m not the poster you replied to, but for me he won a lot of one on one contests. Couple of times he managed to push off more seasoned players to allow our player to win the ball (who sometimes fumbled it). Did some nice spoils on the air too.

Yep, he was much harder at the contest in this game and wasn’t afraid to mix it up. He also dashed out of situations, settled with the footy and used his skills to hit up targets downfield.
He definitely started to look like he was getting more comfortable at AFL level and he wasn’t afraid.
The more he does it the more he’ll feel comfortable hopefully, and keep taking the game on because he’s got some skills and speed in his trick bag.

 

[ToastieBoy18]

Yep, he was much harder at the contest in this game and wasn’t afraid to mix it up. He also dashed out of situations, settled with the footy and used his skills to hit up targets downfield.
He definitely started to look like he was getting more comfortable at AFL level and he wasn’t afraid.
The more he does it the more he’ll feel comfortable hopefully, and keep taking the game on because he’s got some skills and speed in his trick bag.

Agree. At the moment just fades in an out too much. 11 touches combined first and last quarters and 1 touch in the 2nd and 3rd combined. That will hopefully come with more experience and confidence. As will some composure with the ball.

Would love that 12 touches to turn into 17-20 by years end.

 

[Obeanie1]

It’s just that we need to halve more than we do. We’ll win some hitouts over the course a season, but the problem is how many we decisively lose with no chance of laying a glove on the opposing midfield attack.

Flynn/Williams rotation gave us a much much better chance of more halved ruck battles, which is where we’re at right now. We’re not in the silver service and waltz out phase of our ruck room, but just getting rolled at every stoppage or having to set up ultra defensive doesn’t help the kids’ development.

It teaches you how to defend against a stronger ruck and not assume your ruck will win taps to advantage.

But yes it does reduce the more positive attacking development.

Thought Jamison was the best 2nd ruck yesterday, he did well in defense too. A commentator said they thought he looked promising and was competing well. He at least halved the ruck contest.

Id almost ruck Jamison v the oppositions number 1 and Bailey against the backup to get some advantage.

 

[WeaponX]

Saw some signs yesterday (although only fleeting) of winning the ball in the middle, until we can get at least 50/50 out of the middle we are going nowhere. The other issue is at the contested marking, our ground ballers don't position well enough to win the spills which is a training and gameplan issue we could rectify pretty easily. I cannot understand why we don't win the ball, we are forever chasing an opponent who either won a contest or a ruck knock.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Saw some signs yesterday (although only fleeting) of winning the ball in the middle, until we can get at least 50/50 out of the middle we are going nowhere. The other issue is at the contested marking, our ground ballers don't position well enough to win the spills which is a training and gameplan issue we could rectify pretty easily. I cannot understand why we don't win the ball, we are forever chasing an opponent who either won a contest or a ruck knock.

Crumbing has been an issue for 10 years. We would lose 80% of crumbs of packs. It’s actually a sick joke and costs us dearly and is simple to fix with coaching. But I’m resigned to the fact it will never change under Simpson

 

[DanWCE]

Got a decent glimpse of the game plan early in the third quarter. Kicked a couple of goals and had the ball locked in our forward half. Hough was looking like Bunga sitting off the back of the 50 arc marking all the hack kicks but unfortunately doesn't yet have the poise to pinpoint a target. Camera angle showed a couple of times a look inboard would have opened things up.

Crows ended up kicking some junk time goals late in the quarter but I reckon they'll review that 10-15 minute patch and take plenty away from it.

 

[Westend]

no ruck means we can't be competitive so obvious yesterday

tough times

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

no ruck means we can't be competitive so obvious yesterday

tough times

Particularly when you have Jamieson, Barnett or Livingston as the 2nd ruck. If Williams doesn't beat the main ruck we are in big trouble.