Training 2020 Preseason

[Wolfgang West]

I don't agree with the Naismith hype either. Neither deserve any pumping up IMO

Fair enough but don't under estimate what Sinclair has provided the last couple of years. The Naismith Hype has been created because he is a human behind post who can tap the ball. Having said that he also has the fragility of the post Leigh Matthews snapped in half.

 

[caesar88]

Fair enough but don't under estimate what Sinclair has provided the last couple of years. The Naismith Hype has been created because he is a human behind post who can tap the ball. Having said that he also has the fragility of the post Leigh Matthews snapped in half.

Might have to agree to disagree re Sinclair but I'm with you on Naismith. Absence has made the heart grow fonder around here I reckon and I think some are going to be disappointed when he comes in and doesn't make a blip of difference to our midfield (hope I'm wrong though.)

 

[HighReeve]

any word about on how O'Connor from Irelands adjusting? seen at training?

 

[TheMase]

Might have to agree to disagree re Sinclair but I'm with you on Naismith. Absence has made the heart grow fonder around here I reckon and I think some are going to be disappointed when he comes in and doesn't make a blip of difference to our midfield (hope I'm wrong though.)

Firstly I think the idea that Naismith is being significantly “hyped” is a bit of a joke. It’s not like Buddy returning (hype) and people are just hopeful that Naismith might help. (I know you didn’t specially assert the hype piece but you’ve agree with its premise).

Secondly, people like me remember articles like these (where it’s noted he DID have an impact on the midfield) and hope that he can improve on that under the influence of Cox. So absolutely nothing to do with absence making heart grow fonder at all....

Sam Naismith could prove to be the Swans’ key to premiership success in 2016

Sam who? The Swans ruck that no one knew

www.foxsports.com.au

“Since assuming ruck responsibilities against Geelong, Sydney has kicked 29 points on average from clearances to rank first in the AFL for scores from stoppages.

Indeed, with Naismith the Swans are kicking almost four more goals per game purely from clearances.”

(I believe this went from 7 to 29 points as a direct comparison)

And my point about Naismith all along (ok it’s King but it’s the same point):
““For years, the Swans have never had a dominant tap ruckman,” King told foxfooty.com.au.

“They’ve never actually roved from an advantageous position. They’ve always had to fight for possessions, in close, in that in tight circle, one to two metres around the ruckman in the drop zone.

“Guys like Josh Kennedy, Dan Hannebery, Kieren Jack and Luke Parker can now all be proactive as opposed to reactive. When they get out, they’re in clear air and that’s why those numbers are so important.

“It means they don’t have to start shoulder to shoulder with their opponent, they can be on the move, if they get goal side they’ll get rewarded. They don’t have to worry about the opposition ruckman putting it to their opponent’s advantage as much.””


Nobody is saying anything other than Naismith being serviceable as a tap ruckman who will allow our midfielders to setup a little differently, which I don’t think is a particularly outlandish suggestion.

 

[Wolfgang West]

Firstly I think the idea that Naismith is being significantly “hyped” is a bit of a joke. It’s not like Buddy returning (hype) and people are just hopeful that Naismith might help. (I know you didn’t specially assert the hype piece but you’ve agree with its premise).

Secondly, people like me remember articles like these (where it’s noted he DID have an impact on the midfield) and hope that he can improve on that under the influence of Cox. So absolutely nothing to do with absence making heart grow fonder at all....

Sam Naismith could prove to be the Swans’ key to premiership success in 2016

Sam who? The Swans ruck that no one knew

www.foxsports.com.au

“Since assuming ruck responsibilities against Geelong, Sydney has kicked 29 points on average from clearances to rank first in the AFL for scores from stoppages.

Indeed, with Naismith the Swans are kicking almost four more goals per game purely from clearances.”

(I believe this went from 7 to 29 points as a direct comparison)

And my point about Naismith all along (ok it’s King but it’s the same point):
““For years, the Swans have never had a dominant tap ruckman,” King told foxfooty.com.au.

“They’ve never actually roved from an advantageous position. They’ve always had to fight for possessions, in close, in that in tight circle, one to two metres around the ruckman in the drop zone.

“Guys like Josh Kennedy, Dan Hannebery, Kieren Jack and Luke Parker can now all be proactive as opposed to reactive. When they get out, they’re in clear air and that’s why those numbers are so important.

“It means they don’t have to start shoulder to shoulder with their opponent, they can be on the move, if they get goal side they’ll get rewarded. They don’t have to worry about the opposition ruckman putting it to their opponent’s advantage as much.””


Nobody is saying anything other than Naismith being serviceable as a tap ruckman who will allow our midfielders to setup a little differently, which I don’t think is a particularly outlandish suggestion.

Is he in any danger of taking a mark ? FFS even Rhys Stanley manages to take the occasional one. He is a marginally better footballer than Zac Clarke and that is only because he occasionally manages to lay a tackle.

 

[caesar88]

Firstly I think the idea that Naismith is being significantly “hyped” is a bit of a joke. It’s not like Buddy returning (hype) and people are just hopeful that Naismith might help. (I know you didn’t specially assert the hype piece but you’ve agree with its premise).

Secondly, people like me remember articles like these (where it’s noted he DID have an impact on the midfield) and hope that he can improve on that under the influence of Cox. So absolutely nothing to do with absence making heart grow fonder at all....

Sam Naismith could prove to be the Swans’ key to premiership success in 2016

Sam who? The Swans ruck that no one knew

www.foxsports.com.au

“Since assuming ruck responsibilities against Geelong, Sydney has kicked 29 points on average from clearances to rank first in the AFL for scores from stoppages.

Indeed, with Naismith the Swans are kicking almost four more goals per game purely from clearances.”

(I believe this went from 7 to 29 points as a direct comparison)

And my point about Naismith all along (ok it’s King but it’s the same point):
““For years, the Swans have never had a dominant tap ruckman,” King told foxfooty.com.au.

“They’ve never actually roved from an advantageous position. They’ve always had to fight for possessions, in close, in that in tight circle, one to two metres around the ruckman in the drop zone.

“Guys like Josh Kennedy, Dan Hannebery, Kieren Jack and Luke Parker can now all be proactive as opposed to reactive. When they get out, they’re in clear air and that’s why those numbers are so important.

“It means they don’t have to start shoulder to shoulder with their opponent, they can be on the move, if they get goal side they’ll get rewarded. They don’t have to worry about the opposition ruckman putting it to their opponent’s advantage as much.””


Nobody is saying anything other than Naismith being serviceable as a tap ruckman who will allow our midfielders to setup a little differently, which I don’t think is a particularly outlandish suggestion.

You completely missed my point though, which is that I don't think our issues are not getting the ball, it's what we do with it once we have it. I have been saying this since 2017, when we actually had Naismith rucking. I saw it then, and I've seen it get worse and worse. As far as I'm concerned Naismith's not gonna help JPK & Parker with their decision-making which I find to be incredibly suspect and in my defence I've been very consistent about. All he will do is give them more and more opportunities to produce pointless clearances that lead to turnovers.

 

[elastic]

We have traditionally lacked pace in the midfield over the past decade and as a result, our ruckmen always tended to tap the ball to their feet where JPK would be waiting. There was always a reluctance to get the ball to the outside because we had no outside run. Opposition teams like GWs would be trying to get the ball to the outside where they could open us up. I think our recruiting the past few years has started to address that but JPK and Parker still tend to do better in tight.

 

[TheMase]

You completely missed my point though, which is that I don't think our issues are not getting the ball, it's what we do with it once we have it. I have been saying this since 2017, when we actually had Naismith rucking. I saw it then, and I've seen it get worse and worse. As far as I'm concerned Naismith's not gonna help JPK & Parker with their decision-making which I find to be incredibly suspect and in my defence I've been very consistent about. All he will do is give them more and more opportunities to produce pointless clearances that lead to turnovers.

I am not sure I missed your point. Just saying in 2016 he did make a difference around the clearances, the numbers were very different between Naismith and non-Naismith.

If he can create more space and less congestion as a result of being more decisive with his taps then he will make a difference to them.

Big if I know, but it certainly isn’t going to change with Sinclair as ruck.

 

[caesar88]

We have traditionally lacked pace in the midfield over the past decade and as a result, our ruckmen always tended to tap the ball to their feet where JPK would be waiting. There was always a reluctance to get the ball to the outside because we had no outside run. Opposition teams like GWs would be trying to get the ball to the outside where they could open us up. I think our recruiting the past few years has started to address that but JPK and Parker still tend to do better in tight.

JPK & Parker don't need to do well on the outside as they're inside players. But I think they need to adapt their games because they are still playing as though the bolded remains the case and it's pretty taxing to watch.

 

[caesar88]

I am not sure I missed your point. Just saying in 2016 he did make a difference around the clearances, the numbers were very different between Naismith and non-Naismith.

If he can create more space and less congestion as a result of being more decisive with his taps then he will make a difference to them.

Big if I know, but it certainly isn’t going to change with Sinclair as ruck.

I don't really consider 2016 to be too relevant though as it was such a different look for us. We had peak Hanners in there, and JPK & Parker were different players to what they are now. And that was also before Naismith missed two whole seasons. It's not an insurmountable absence by any means but let's be real we don't actually know the form he'll come back with.

I also think that space was a luxury we had a lot more of this year than people on here realised, we just never knew how to use it to our advantage, so I still don't see where Naismith's gonna make a massive difference.

 

[TheMase]

Is he in any danger of taking a mark ? FFS even Rhys Stanley manages to take the occasional one. He is a marginally better footballer than Zac Clarke and that is only because he occasionally manages to lay a tackle.

He has plenty of room to improve, not arguing against that.

But compared to Sinclair 2019 we are talking less than 2 Marks per game and 3-4 disposals. Hardly ground breaking stuff.

Since no other ruckman is on our list I am well aware of who we have to choose from, and the depth is limited. So we either go for the guy who is taller and has a better leap who is likely to allow our midfield to be more confidence of winning the tap.... or we go with the guy who is shorter, can’t really get off the ground in a way that makes him threatening as a ruckman but he will gather an extra 2 Marks a game and 1 possession per quarter whilst our midfield stands defensively because they expect to lose the tap and be on the back foot.

Slim pickings. I’m going for the guy that can somewhat do the main attribute for the role - ruck.

 

[mtooler]

I have no respect for Sinclair, he is a dirty snot rag.

 

[Wayne Swan]

I have no respect for Sinclair, he is a dirty snot rag.

Out of order, Sinclair has given 110% every time he's taken the field, that's all you can ask of a guy who's selected to play

 

[bungee]

Each to their own of course

Robinson and Foote were shithouse

Honest I take as at least competent

Sinclair around the ground gets involved and less of a liability than Naismith who’s tap work doesn’t offset his lack of work around the ground imo

Ideally I’d prefer neither , but I just am surprised given his output Sinclair seems to be first out for most but people select Reid etc who has done nothing for a decade

Just my view

I would be trying to get a decent ruck and get away from both Sinclair and Naismith but if I have to carry someone to compete give me Sinclair for now

the evidence re Naismith is small and dated , the excitement around him by some including the club is overblown imo
Time will tell hopefully in 6 months everyone can say I told you so and he is great

But I would bet against it

No doubting Sinclair's work ethic. He was putting 100% in every game.

EDIT : Damn, Wayne Swan's 110% which makes my 100% look a bit miserly.

 

[bungee]

You completely missed my point though, which is that I don't think our issues are not getting the ball, it's what we do with it once we have it. I have been saying this since 2017, when we actually had Naismith rucking. I saw it then, and I've seen it get worse and worse. As far as I'm concerned Naismith's not gonna help JPK & Parker with their decision-making which I find to be incredibly suspect and in my defence I've been very consistent about. All he will do is give them more and more opportunities to produce pointless clearances that lead to turnovers.

Our issues are very much about not getting the ball. Kennedy's disposal efficiency has increased over the past couple of years but his centre clearances have dropped way off as our hitouts have dropped. His stats show a big drop off in handballs rather than kicks, which indicates he's not getting as many taps where he'd then squirt a quick handball to someone in a better position. Converesly, his tackle stats have gone way up suggesting the opposition is getting the taps.

Naismith would indeed help our mids to get first use. JPK and Parker's decision making is fine given the circumstances, only blunted by having too little support. Just under 70% disposal efficiency is about on par for a top inside mid contested ball magnet. It's more remarkable under the circumstances. With only two top flight mids for opposition teams to target they rarely dispose without pressure.

The real argument here is whether Naismith can match Sinclair's efforts around the ground. The best rucks also have an impact when they're not rucking.

 

[SeanM]

any word about on how O'Connor from Irelands adjusting? seen at training?

Before Christmas seemed to be doing a lot of running around the oval. At the start of this year seems generally involved in the drills. But also does one on one stuff with the coaches.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

The real argument here is whether Naismith can match Sinclair's efforts around the ground. The best rucks also have an impact when they're not rucking.

See I don’t think that’s the real argument. That fits in with the bullshit argument that Naismith is being hyped. And he’s not.
The best ruck costs $1 million per year.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

When Naismith came into the side his tap work was credited as being responsible for taking us to the then no 1 rated clearance side in the competition. He had drawbacks with mobility and work around the ground but if he can even go close to that again with his prime responsibility I’d be delighted.

Surely that aspect alone ought life mids performance. A few new faces in rotations and change in % time in mid rotations and mid performance can be renewed I feel.

 

[Tedeski]

“Since assuming ruck responsibilities against Geelong, Sydney has kicked 29 points on average from clearances to rank first in the AFL for scores from stoppages.

DAMN Masey!
Some people just have short memories, probably because of one of our more disappointing seasons, compared to our previous season's where we at least made finals.

But when I watched Naismith & our midfielders at work when he was fit, he totally gave us first use in 90% of games we played.

Yep! Short memories.
Let's just pray he stays fit.

On Sinclair, he is a fantastic second ruck resting forward, but I fear for him as the days of another lumbering big man seem done with the fewer rotations available to clubs these last few seasons.

 

[ScottBo]

We need to take into account the last time he rucked for the Swans they were a much better team. I guess this year we'll have a chance to find out how much he contributed to that.

 

[SGBeach]

Do people remember Naismith played the last couple of neafl games last year? Does anyone remember the goals he kicked??
when kicking those goals, he was looking pretty mobile

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Do people remember Naismith played the last couple of neafl games last year? Does anyone remember the goals he kicked??
when kicking those goals, he was looking pretty mobile

Saw him take a few marks at the top of his leap too.

 

[Wolftone]

Kinda disappointed we haven’t heard much from either Ling or Maibaum. Both have been on the list a few years now and also out of action for a long time, now they’re both back training (though not fully I suspect?) and there’s been no mention of them.

Huge bonus if we can get one or both of them fit and pushing for senior footy this year.

Ling is in full training. Not sure on Maibaum's recovery time from ACL

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[Wolftone]

It's not a good feeling Ticky, it's as clear as day.. the kid can play, will turn out to be an outstanding pick-up for the club.

As for me, I have an optimistic, if not good, feeling about Knoll. I wasn't impressed by his NEAFL form at all, but he has a few things going for him. The fact he didn't have a pre-season made me inclined to give him a free pass. And the fact he's had a big pre-season by all accounts (lots of match practice, a good showing in the time trials though I don't rate them, early start in November etc) gives him some upside. And the fact he was a pretty handy ruck in the SANFL, which is more competitive than the NEAFL, tells me he's capable of playing decent footy. He may never turn out to be much for us but all of these things tell me that he's not a total dud, and there's something to work with there.

Part of the problem for Michael Knoll is he is a basketballer turned foorballer. By this I mean he has a very awkward kicking action both kicking at goal and in a marking or free kick situation. This is probably due to him not being a naturally skulled footballer. This can be overcome with lots of practice, see Mike Pyke. But like Pykie he will never be a star just a good serviceable player.

On U27 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Wolftone]

Well he wasn't playing when I went to training, but I still think if fit his our starting ruckman.

I think you must be on something that sends you into delusions of wonder. Send me some it's getting too dull here. On second thoughts don't I think they still hang druggies here lol 555

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