Preserving the Past

Roaming Lou

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In another thread of mine, How the game has evolved, there were many people saying that the current game has become boring.
So I came up with a comment and it got a positive reaction, and I believe it serves a thread of its own.

So basically the idea is that the AFL will create a new league, lets call it the VFA or something. It will be a Victorian league and will aim to incorporate the original 12 teams. It should be considered a major league and have major sponsors. It can be played at the old suburban grounds that are still available on weekends during the day. The AFL should try to broker a deal with Fox to have all/most games available for broadcast, and with seven to broadcast games on the weekend like they do with some VFL matches, and maybe broadcast replays of the games during the week (I'd watch it over the cr*p they have on weekdays now). The umpires would wear the old uniforms to give it the old VFL vibe. With rules I reckon they should not be on complete par with the AFL, with many rules reverted back. One of the main features of this league will be that it has extensive training and resources but the player wages will be small enough so they still have jobs, this will create a real difference in the style of play, one that resembles the old VFL. Maybe the AFL could increase the draft age so younger players can go into the draft in this league and play a season or two in the VFA.
Overall I was thinking the purpose of this league was to keep the traditionalist fans happy and maybe bring a few old fans back to aussie rules who have stopped following it, as well as preserving the old game all while continuing to advance the modern game.
 

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jatz14

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In another thread of mine, How the game has evolved, there were many people saying that the current game has become boring.
So I came up with a comment and it got a positive reaction, and I believe it serves a thread of its own.

So basically the idea is that the AFL will create a new league, lets call it the VFA or something. It will be a Victorian league and will aim to incorporate the original 12 teams. It should be considered a major league and have major sponsors. It can be played at the old suburban grounds that are still available on weekends during the day. The AFL should try to broker a deal with Fox to have all/most games available for broadcast, and with seven to broadcast games on the weekend like they do with some VFL matches, and maybe broadcast replays of the games during the week (I'd watch it over the cr*p they have on weekdays now). The umpires would wear the old uniforms to give it the old VFL vibe. With rules I reckon they should not be on complete par with the AFL, with many rules reverted back. One of the main features of this league will be that it has extensive training and resources but the player wages will be small enough so they still have jobs, this will create a real difference in the style of play, one that resembles the old VFL. Maybe the AFL could increase the draft age so younger players can go into the draft in this league and play a season or two in the VFA.
Overall I was thinking the purpose of this league was to keep the traditionalist fans happy and maybe bring a few old fans back to aussie rules who have stopped following it, as well as preserving the old game all while continuing to advance the modern game.
So, something like the AFL poking itself in the eye with a sharp stick?

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giggler99

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Won’t work! may have a novelty factor to start with but it will eventually turn into nothing more than a reserves league.
 

Roaming Lou

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Won’t work! may have a novelty factor to start with but it will eventually turn into nothing more than a reserves league.
Yeah I'm thinking the same thing.
But we already have the VFL and I'm sure some genius will be able to outmanoeuvre the clubs into letting this happen.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Yeah I'm thinking the same thing.
But we already have the VFL and I'm sure some genius will be able to outmanoeuvre the clubs into letting this happen.
your issues are two fold

firstly you talk about big sponsors getting involved, why would they? the afl has more eyeballs and more exposure, and given you want this played at suburban grounds, bigger crowds

secondly, who will support these teams? I follow Richmond. have done since birth. how do you get people to abandon or water down their life long allegence to an afl side for a vfl event with lesser players?
 

jatz14

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your issues are two fold

firstly you talk about big sponsors getting involved, why would they? the afl has more eyeballs and more exposure, and given you want this played at suburban grounds, bigger crowds

secondly, who will support these teams? I follow Richmond. have done since birth. how do you get people to abandon or water down their life long allegence to an afl side for a vfl event with lesser players?
The only realistic place for them to come from is the AFL and or state leagues. That's supporters, players, sponsors.

It's like a company with a popular brand, setting up a new brand, with these 2 brands only competitors being each other.

As I said, poking yourself in the eye.

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Roaming Lou

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your issues are two fold

firstly you talk about big sponsors getting involved, why would they? the afl has more eyeballs and more exposure, and given you want this played at suburban grounds, bigger crowds

secondly, who will support these teams? I follow Richmond. have done since birth. how do you get people to abandon or water down their life long allegence to an afl side for a vfl event with lesser players?
Ah but both of these issues are taken care of in my own thread post.
In the post I talk about this league getting TV time, much like the VFL does.
The AFL should try to broker a deal with Fox to have all/most games available for broadcast, and with seven to broadcast games on the weekend like they do with some VFL matches, and maybe broadcast replays of the games during the week (I'd watch it over the cr*p they have on weekdays now).
Television time is what most sponsors are looking for. Notice the Toyota sign in the AFL is shaped towards the TV camera's.
If this league can get TV time sponsors will be happy to put in an offer.

Secondly
It will be a Victorian league and will aim to incorporate the original 12 teams.
These original 12 teams are the same clubs as the Victorian ones e.g. Richmond, Essendon, Western Bulldogs ( it would most likely called Footscray in this league) and Hawthorn they are just different wings of the club but the same club no doubt.
The only realistic place for them to come from is the AFL and or state leagues. That's supporters, players, sponsors.

It's like a company with a popular brand, setting up a new brand, with these 2 brands only competitors being each other.

As I said, poking yourself in the eye.

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I see your logic, but think about how it could be of great benefit to the AFL. There are many supporters who have gotten horribly board of the AFL (I being one of them), having a league with a different play style resembling the older game would almost surely bring many fans back to the game. It could also help in another way being that having sponsors with TV time creates a big profit, having this as a semi-professional league means that you aren't blowing millions of dollars on player contracts, this should help create a budget surplus in these wings of the clubs, this can be used in many different ways such as updating and upgrading the grounds themselves, taking money up to the AFL wings of the clubs to help decrease reliance on the AFL for funding and buying stocks in other companies to increase the income to spend on more other things.
This league is property of the AFL, if there is competitiveness between it and the AFL (league) the AFL (company) will still win out.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Ah but both of these issues are taken care of in my own thread post.
In the post I talk about this league getting TV time, much like the VFL does.

Television time is what most sponsors are looking for. Notice the Toyota sign in the AFL is shaped towards the TV camera's.
If this league can get TV time sponsors will be happy to put in an offer.

Secondly

These original 12 teams are the same clubs as the Victorian ones e.g. Richmond, Essendon, Western Bulldogs ( it would most likely called Footscray in this league) and Hawthorn they are just different wings of the club but the same club no doubt.

I see your logic, but think about how it could be of great benefit to the AFL. There are many supporters who have gotten horribly board of the AFL (I being one of them), having a league with a different play style resembling the older game would almost surely bring many fans back to the game. It could also help in another way being that having sponsors with TV time creates a big profit, having this as a semi-professional league means that you aren't blowing millions of dollars on player contracts, this should help create a budget surplus in these wings of the clubs, this can be used in many different ways such as updating and upgrading the grounds themselves, taking money up to the AFL wings of the clubs to help decrease reliance on the AFL for funding and buying stocks in other companies to increase the income to spend on more other things.
This league is property of the AFL, if there is competitiveness between it and the AFL (league) the AFL (company) will still win out.
How much do you think seven pay to show the vfl, sanfl, wafl?
 

Roaming Lou

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How much do you think seven pay to show the vfl, sanfl, wafl?
Not very much, but sponsors are happy to get screen time as well.
Plus the player wages are quite small, for the first few years it would have to be a low cost operation, but if they can do it in yearly/or 2 year contracts than once the league gains momentum the media rights cost will start going up.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Not very much, but sponsors are happy to get screen time as well.
Plus the player wages are quite small, for the first few years it would have to be a low cost operation, but if they can do it in yearly/or 2 year contracts than once the league gains momentum the media rights cost will start going up.
Not sure about this season, but it wasn't long ago the SANFL were paying for their games to be broadcast

You're living in fairyland
 

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Teen Wolf

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Why is it that those who doggedly invoke the virtues of the past are always seemingly the most ignorant and least respectful about it. Maybe the OP has actually stumbled on to something, there really ought to be greater recognition of the game's history. Then football "traditionalists" could learn a thing or two about clubs like Castlemaine and Modbury rather than thinking Collingwood and Hawthorn qualify as "original".

Sorry if that response is too harsh. In all honesty, threads like these are great, they're just never titled correctly. Next time try Preserving the Childhood of Grown Men or I Miss My Daddy.
 

Roaming Lou

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Why is it that those who doggedly invoke the virtues of the past are always seemingly the most ignorant and least respectful about it. Maybe the OP has actually stumbled on to something, there really ought to be greater recognition of the game's history. Then football "traditionalists" could learn a thing or two about clubs like Castlemaine and Modbury rather than thinking Collingwood and Hawthorn qualify as "original".

Sorry if that response is too harsh. In all honesty, threads like these are great, they're just never titled correctly. Next time try Preserving the Childhood of Grown Men or I Miss My Daddy.
Oh I don't think this is too harsh. I'm sure many of the traditionalist watch more local footy. I think its just that many of them would like to see it on a bigger stage. It would be either something like this or they will just be a pain in the ass and try and get rule changes through.
 

Roaming Lou

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Not sure about this season, but it wasn't long ago the SANFL were paying for their games to be broadcast

You're living in fairyland
It is fairyland to compare Victorian television to South Australian television.
Victoria has a population of 6.359 million.
South Australia has a population of 1.677 million. The tv ratings are much higher in Victoria, there are many more companies in Victoria that are willing to advertise. Plus if this league is to take off it should be marketed well, this would include making sure this league is not just a reserves league, much like how the VFL is seen.
 

Ned_Flanders

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It is fairyland to compare Victorian television to South Australian television.
Victoria has a population of 6.359 million.
South Australia has a population of 1.677 million. The tv ratings are much higher in Victoria, there are many more companies in Victoria that are willing to advertise. Plus if this league is to take off it should be marketed well, this would include making sure this league is not just a reserves league, much like how the VFL is seen.
and how much is the AFL getting from seven for the match of the round that seven currently show?

if the opportunity is so lucurative, why is seven only interested at showing ONE game at bargain basement rates?

also your notion of low cost players is already happening, in the VFL. and guess what, talent is preferring to play local or country footy, because they earn more than in the vfl

the vfl does not get a good tv deal (which you think it can), big sponsors (which you think it can), or big crowds to watch b grade players (which you think it can)

time to move on from this delusion
 

Roaming Lou

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and how much is the AFL getting from seven for the match of the round that seven currently show?

if the opportunity is so lucurative, why is seven only interested at showing ONE game at bargain basement rates?

also your notion of low cost players is already happening, in the VFL. and guess what, talent is preferring to play local or country footy, because they earn more than in the vfl

the vfl does not get a good tv deal (which you think it can), big sponsors (which you think it can), or big crowds to watch b grade players (which you think it can)

time to move on from this delusion
The VFL has not been news for a long time.
A new league will kick up some dust. It will create news. Having a league based on an older version of the game will get people watching. Many on the other thread (which I think you have been on) agree that the drafting age should be lifted. If many young players see this as a way to get their name out there and as a gateway to the AFL they will go here. Many will watch it as simply a novelty in itself.
Also the VFL has a wage agreement where they will pay players a certain amount but they are free to go over it, this does not create a lack of skill but instead a concentration of skill (eg Richmond) as only a few clubs can afford to compete.
 

Ned_Flanders

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The VFL has not been news for a long time.
A new league will kick up some dust. It will create news. Having a league based on an older version of the game will get people watching. Many on the other thread (which I think you have been on) agree that the drafting age should be lifted. If many young players see this as a way to get their name out there and as a gateway to the AFL they will go here. Many will watch it as simply a novelty in itself.
Also the VFL has a wage agreement where they will pay players a certain amount but they are free to go over it, this does not create a lack of skill but instead a concentration of skill (eg Richmond) as only a few clubs can afford to compete.
im not talking about the afl clubs (who pay peanuts to their VFL players). Play for Port, Willy, Frankston, or Coburg you get less than you do for some of the suburban clubs, and definitely less than a number of the country clubs. Why do you think so few ex-afl players go to the country leagues instead of the VFL?

and your idea isn't new, its repacking the vfl - same clubs same players same everything, and outside a hardcore small support base - noone wants it
 

AuntyBlindEye

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Any sponsors willing to sponsor this would be small fry, as would the money they pay because people wouldn't watch it, and a part of the ones that do would drop off quickly due to novelty.

VFL gets about 50,000k viewers on channel seven, which is significantly lower than what makes for a profitable program. I'm tipping your league would get less due to not having anything to do with established clubs. So you would have a largely irrelevant league, in a poor viewing timeslot, with drastically fewer viewers, with smaller sponsors if any. I don't see how these clubs could run unless they were funded by an Arab prince or were not for profits.

I'm not against it. I'd like to see it, I just don't see how it's feasible in reality. No one is going to want to take the risk given its less of a risk and more of an inevitability that there is no profit to be made .
 

Roaming Lou

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Any sponsors willing to sponsor this would be small fry, as would the money they pay because people wouldn't watch it, and a part of the ones that do would drop off quickly due to novelty.

VFL gets about 50,000k viewers on channel seven, which is significantly lower than what makes for a profitable program. I'm tipping your league would get less due to not having anything to do with established clubs. So you would have a largely irrelevant league, in a poor viewing timeslot, with drastically fewer viewers, with smaller sponsors if any. I don't see how these clubs could run unless they were funded by an Arab prince or were not for profits.

I'm not against it. I'd like to see it, I just don't see how it's feasible in reality. No one is going to want to take the risk given its less of a risk and more of an inevitability that there is no profit to be made .
Oh no these clubs aren't new, they are the Victorian clubs

It will be a Victorian league and will aim to incorporate the original 12 teams.
see.
Now I've created this thread based on what I've seen on other threads. In the AFL president thread there are many people advocating for the merging/moving of Victorian clubs in pursuit of a "truly national league", having a league like this should mean that people have some place yo go if their club is moved/merged, and interstates can have their "truly national league". Plus even if there is no move, I think people would still be happy to see their club play.
 

AuntyBlindEye

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Oh no these clubs aren't new, they are the Victorian clubs


see.
Now I've created this thread based on what I've seen on other threads. In the AFL president thread there are many people advocating for the merging/moving of Victorian clubs in pursuit of a "truly national league", having a league like this should mean that people have some place yo go if their club is moved/merged, and interstates can have their "truly national league". Plus even if there is no move, I think people would still be happy to see their club play.
Sorry I worded it wrong, by established I meant in the eyes of the public. Most people would consider them new because people are stupid.

Would you mind listing the original 12 teams you want in the league? I'm interested in what those teams are in your eyes.

Regardless whether they are new teams, old teams, linked with current clubs or what, all my points still stand. There just sadly isn't a market for it within the public and much, much less so in the business world.
 

Roaming Lou

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im not talking about the afl clubs (who pay peanuts to their VFL players). Play for Port, Willy, Frankston, or Coburg you get less than you do for some of the suburban clubs, and definitely less than a number of the country clubs. Why do you think so few ex-afl players go to the country leagues instead of the VFL?

and your idea isn't new, its repacking the vfl - same clubs same players same everything, and outside a hardcore small support base - noone wants it
So, many see the VFL has just a reserve/knock off of the AFL. Thats pretty much how its marketed, many who play there (with a high skill level) do it because its one step out from the AFL, you play well you might just get a spot in the AFL.
You talk about it not being too skilful, this league would be trying to morph its game into one that used to be played in the VFL (AFL now). Ever heard of the term "dumb footy" because thats really what it was, but "dumb footy" to many was really fun to watch. It does not require the very best players to play it, a "b" or "c" grade player given the proper training can go quite well in it. Thats why many like watching local footy because thats where the last remnants of it are. If this league was to go ahead it would basically be a Victoria Local footy league.
 

Kwality

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In another thread of mine, How the game has evolved, there were many people saying that the current game has become boring.
So I came up with a comment and it got a positive reaction, and I believe it serves a thread of its own.

So basically the idea is that the AFL will create a new league, lets call it the VFA or something. It will be a Victorian league and will aim to incorporate the original 12 teams. It should be considered a major league and have major sponsors. It can be played at the old suburban grounds that are still available on weekends during the day. The AFL should try to broker a deal with Fox to have all/most games available for broadcast, and with seven to broadcast games on the weekend like they do with some VFL matches, and maybe broadcast replays of the games during the week (I'd watch it over the cr*p they have on weekdays now). The umpires would wear the old uniforms to give it the old VFL vibe. With rules I reckon they should not be on complete par with the AFL, with many rules reverted back. One of the main features of this league will be that it has extensive training and resources but the player wages will be small enough so they still have jobs, this will create a real difference in the style of play, one that resembles the old VFL. Maybe the AFL could increase the draft age so younger players can go into the draft in this league and play a season or two in the VFA.
Overall I was thinking the purpose of this league was to keep the traditionalist fans happy and maybe bring a few old fans back to aussie rules who have stopped following it, as well as preserving the old game all while continuing to advance the modern game.
How 'bout the Vic clubs fund it? If its good enough in SA & WA for the local clubs to fund local footy ....
 

Ned_Flanders

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So, many see the VFL has just a reserve/knock off of the AFL. Thats pretty much how its marketed, many who play there (with a high skill level) do it because its one step out from the AFL, you play well you might just get a spot in the AFL.
You talk about it not being too skilful, this league would be trying to morph its game into one that used to be played in the VFL (AFL now). Ever heard of the term "dumb footy" because thats really what it was, but "dumb footy" to many was really fun to watch. It does not require the very best players to play it, a "b" or "c" grade player given the proper training can go quite well in it. Thats why many like watching local footy because thats where the last remnants of it are. If this league was to go ahead it would basically be a Victoria Local footy league.
Dude I go to vfl and local footy games, it's not about dumb footy

It's about people have finite time, and when choosing to watch something they usually want to watch the best. It's why EPL is more popular here than the HAL, and why vfl will only ever be a weak second tier comp
 

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