Preserving the Past

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Rob

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 8, 2000
27,988
13,922
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
It is fairyland to compare Victorian television to South Australian television.
Victoria has a population of 6.359 million.
South Australia has a population of 1.677 million. The tv ratings are much higher in Victoria, there are many more companies in Victoria that are willing to advertise. Plus if this league is to take off it should be marketed well, this would include making sure this league is not just a reserves league, much like how the VFL is seen.
The problem is that there is pretty much zero chance of this league ever taking off. It would be full of players that aren't good enough to even be on an AFL list so the quality would be less than the VFL is today. Never mind there is no evidence of any appetite for such a league, from either the football public or the clubs themselves.

It would be a monumental disaster.
 

Roaming Lou

Senior List
Oct 9, 2019
184
44
AFL Club
Geelong
& trying to be AFL footballers, but they are 2nd tier ...
The problem is that there is pretty much zero chance of this league ever taking off. It would be full of players that aren't good enough to even be on an AFL list so the quality would be less than the VFL is today. Never mind there is no evidence of any appetite for such a league, from either the football public or the clubs themselves.

It would be a monumental disaster.
it is

its old vfl clubs with players who arent good enough for the afl.

thats the vfl
I agree that its hard fir this to take off, but if this league can have something to call its own , the fact that its a novelty than people might just take note, the difference between here and the VFL is that the VFL is basically the AFL's b!tch, its just the AFL but small, but if this league has something in its own right, plus think of all the people nostalgic and reminiscent of the days of the old VFL.
I hope you see where I'm going with this
 

Rob

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 8, 2000
27,988
13,922
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
I agree that its hard fir this to take off, but if this league can have something to call its own , the fact that its a novelty than people might just take note, the difference between here and the VFL is that the VFL is basically the AFL's b!tch, its just the AFL but small, but if this league has something in its own right, plus think of all the people nostalgic and reminiscent of the days of the old VFL.
I hope you see where I'm going with this
I see where you're going, but you'd be doing well to get more than a few hundred people to a game that's a lesser standard than the current VFL. You're confusing nostalgia with actual demand.

Not that you're the lone ranger there, you see people come up with ideas to take AFL matches back to old suburban shitholes like Princes Park and Whitten Oval from people that have completely forgotten why those grounds don't host AFL games anymore. These are the people that would gladly spend $50 million of other peoples money doing up a ground only to whine about having to play there a year later when the novelty has worn off.
 

Roaming Lou

Senior List
Oct 9, 2019
184
44
AFL Club
Geelong
I see where you're going, but you'd be doing well to get more than a few hundred people to a game that's a lesser standard than the current VFL. You're confusing nostalgia with actual demand.

Not that you're the lone ranger there, you see people come up with ideas to take AFL matches back to old suburban shitholes like Princes Park and Whitten Oval from people that have completely forgotten why those grounds don't host AFL games anymore. These are the people that would gladly spend $50 million of other peoples money doing up a ground only to whine about having to play there a year later when the novelty has worn off.
Hmm, alright even for me having AFL games played at Pinces and Whitten sounds stupid. But there is a market for these leagues, the problem is nothing has been really tested like this before.
Can I ask you besides all the economics behind it, would you support a league like this.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
20,175
6,942
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
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Renault F1
Hmm, alright even for me having AFL games played at Pinces and Whitten sounds stupid. But there is a market for these leagues, the problem is nothing has been really tested like this before.
Can I ask you besides all the economics behind it, would you support a league like this.
Buy a black & white TV, even start streaming games in B & W & charge a couple of quid for the service.
 

Ned_Flanders

Premium Platinum
Aug 22, 2009
48,225
89,215
AFL Club
Richmond
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76'ers
Hmm, alright even for me having AFL games played at Pinces and Whitten sounds stupid. But there is a market for these leagues, the problem is nothing has been really tested like this before.
Can I ask you besides all the economics behind it, would you support a league like this.
I already go to RFC vfl games and AFL games, and we are about to have a aflw side in addition to our vflw.

I'm not sure what a fifth team adds
 

Roaming Lou

Senior List
Oct 9, 2019
184
44
AFL Club
Geelong
I already go to RFC vfl games and AFL games, and we are about to have a aflw side in addition to our vflw.

I'm not sure what a fifth team adds
You'll do fine, you have a massive supporter base full of hardcore fans, trust me I know, I have to live and put up with them. But anyway Richmond would easily be able to pull this off, its more or so how the public reacts to the entire league.
You guys are doing fine on the funding ladder and are beginning to pull back AFL funding.
I believe its adds to the club though as people seeing it in a more community light (this is a bit of a marketing image though) and if they do they might be more encouraged to take out a membership.
This is a bit vague, but I hope you see where I'm coming from.
 

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Ned_Flanders

Premium Platinum
Aug 22, 2009
48,225
89,215
AFL Club
Richmond
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76'ers
You'll do fine, you have a massive supporter base full of hardcore fans, trust me I know, I have to live and put up with them. But anyway Richmond would easily be able to pull this off, its more or so how the public reacts to the entire league.
You guys are doing fine on the funding ladder and are beginning to pull back AFL funding.
I believe its adds to the club though as people seeing it in a more community light (this is a bit of a marketing image though) and if they do they might be more encouraged to take out a membership.
This is a bit vague, but I hope you see where I'm coming from.
not questioning the funding, im questioning the point

what am i getting from this fifth side that I dont get from the other two mens sides? its essentially an rfc c side
 

Roaming Lou

Senior List
Oct 9, 2019
184
44
AFL Club
Geelong
not questioning the funding, im questioning the point

what am i getting from this fifth side that I dont get from the other two mens sides? its essentially an rfc c side
The point I'm trying to convey is that if many see the club through more grassroots lens they would be inspired to take out a membership or do more in terms to get involved in the club.
Secondly the average age of a Richmond supporter is 44, don't you think many of them would like their kids to experience the same sort of game they did as a kid.
 

Ned_Flanders

Premium Platinum
Aug 22, 2009
48,225
89,215
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The point I'm trying to convey is that if many see the club through more grassroots lens they would be inspired to take out a membership or do more in terms to get involved in the club.
Secondly the average age of a Richmond supporter is 44, don't you think many of them would like their kids to experience the same sort of game they did as a kid.
1) I'm 45

2) these won't be grassroots clubs if they are a part of the original 12. They will be managed by the same board, there is nothing community about them
 

Roaming Lou

Senior List
Oct 9, 2019
184
44
AFL Club
Geelong
1) I'm 45

2) these won't be grassroots clubs if they are a part of the original 12. They will be managed by the same board, there is nothing community about them
1) Would you like your kids (if you have any) to see the game played like it was when you grew up, or at least acknowledge others might.
2) Even if they are managed by the same board they can at least have a separate directors wing that is under the overall board, and I can see how it could be made a real sort-of person to player branch of the club, if its a smaller league I don't see why the kids and adults can't go out onto the field after the game and have a kick to kick or a chat with the players get to know them, or chat with some of the officials and umpires. You could host sausage sizzles at trainings with the players, or have the club host auskick trainings with the kids and players. Having a smaller league means that theres less rules and regulations the players and clubs have to follow.

*Edit* just reading back on this post makes it sound really smart-a•sy. This comment is made with no disrespect, and I hope you get what I mean.
 

Ned_Flanders

Premium Platinum
Aug 22, 2009
48,225
89,215
AFL Club
Richmond
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76'ers
1) Would you like your kids (if you have any) to see the game played like it was when you grew up, or at least acknowledge others might.
2) Even if they are managed by the same board they can at least have a separate directors wing that is under the overall board, and I can see how it could be made a real sort-of person to player branch of the club, if its a smaller league I don't see why the kids and adults can't go out onto the field after the game and have a kick to kick or a chat with the players get to know them, or chat with some of the officials and umpires. You could host sausage sizzles at trainings with the players, or have the club host auskick trainings with the kids and players. Having a smaller league means that theres less rules and regulations the players and clubs have to follow.

*Edit* just reading back on this post makes it sound really smart-a•sy. This comment is made with no disrespect, and I hope you get what I mean.
1) kids would have no interest in it. they want dusty and nic nat, not mud bogs and bad kicks. look how few kids you see watching the seniors play at suburban or state league games - its all middle aged and old blokes

2) what you want already exists. Go watch the likes of heidelberg, balwyn, vermont, seaford, St Albans and so on.

a 12 team vfl comp worked for what you want because it represented the small inner city suburbs that existed in melbourne back then. most people dont have the local connection any more for these 12 clubs.
 

Roaming Lou

Senior List
Oct 9, 2019
184
44
AFL Club
Geelong
1) kids would have no interest in it. they want dusty and nic nat, not mud bogs and bad kicks. look how few kids you see watching the seniors play at suburban or state league games - its all middle aged and old blokes
huh, so this is what Melbourne children have morphed into.
Where I come from there are a lot of kids at every game. They are all right into it and look forward into it every weekend.
This is actually quite sad when you think about it.
2) what you want already exists. Go watch the likes of heidelberg, balwyn, vermont, seaford, St Albans and so on.

a 12 team vfl comp worked for what you want because it represented the small inner city suburbs that existed in melbourne back then. most people dont have the local connection any more for these 12 clubs.
Well I think that having the old 12 clubs there is a way for the league to be seen as a major, but think about it, what makes a community, is it something that people can collectively get behind in pursuit of common goal, is it a football club that can make a community, having a proper family club coupled with people who regularly attend games can create a real community around this branch of the club. Think about it.
 

Ned_Flanders

Premium Platinum
Aug 22, 2009
48,225
89,215
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
76'ers
huh, so this is what Melbourne children have morphed into.
Where I come from there are a lot of kids at every game. They are all right into it and look forward into it every weekend.
This is actually quite sad when you think about it.

Well I think that having the old 12 clubs there is a way for the league to be seen as a major, but think about it, what makes a community, is it something that people can collectively get behind in pursuit of common goal, is it a football club that can make a community, having a proper family club coupled with people who regularly attend games can create a real community around this branch of the club. Think about it.
this is the problem with what you want, its no longer possible. you want a community game, with a community club, that has 100,000 members, AND it has an elite team. people follow an elite team to support the elite team. if people want to support a community team, they follow the one in their local community - not one an hour drive away (outside the country)
 

Roaming Lou

Senior List
Oct 9, 2019
184
44
AFL Club
Geelong
this is the problem with what you want, its no longer possible. you want a community game, with a community club, that has 100,000 members, AND it has an elite team. people follow an elite team to support the elite team. if people want to support a community team, they follow the one in their local community - not one an hour drive away (outside the country)
Well I think that there is another problem going on here that can be exploited to the leagues benefit. Think of social media, and younger people and recent online celebrities, if you've seen any of them they are absolute wackos, yet people still follow them. Why?, because they see it as popular. The AFL actually does it with AFLW, it works. They do it by putting the AFLW in the smaller grounds, when it comes up on social media and television it looks like there are many people there, this give people the impression that this is popular, thus more people flock to it. If the league can use social media effectively than you will have many mire young people interested in it.
 

Rob

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 8, 2000
27,988
13,922
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
Hmm, alright even for me having AFL games played at Pinces and Whitten sounds stupid. But there is a market for these leagues, the problem is nothing has been really tested like this before.
Disagree wholeheartedly. The market is tested every weekend in the VFL. People don't go. The only real difference between your league and the existing VFL is the AFL listed players, which means the standard in your league is going to be reduced. Throwing more money at player salaries isn't going to improve the level that those players play at unless it's enough to make them full time athletes. And that would require so much money to make the whole thing completely insane.

If that doesn't convince you, have a look at the crowds in the WAFL and SANFL. Similar competitions to what you're proposing, and struggling financially infront of crowds that are a tiny proportion of the heyday.

Can I ask you besides all the economics behind it, would you support a league like this.
Well, no. But I don't live in Melbourne, nor support an ex-VFL team. So i'm not the target market anyway.

I'd like to see a genuine AFL reserves league so there can be a bit of integrity back to the state leagues (and hopefully rekindle some great old clubs from the former VFA). But I don't delude myself into thinking that will suddenly inspire thousands more people to flood the gates of the state leagues.
 

Roaming Lou

Senior List
Oct 9, 2019
184
44
AFL Club
Geelong
Disagree wholeheartedly. The market is tested every weekend in the VFL. People don't go. The only real difference between your league and the existing VFL is the AFL listed players, which means the standard in your league is going to be reduced. Throwing more money at player salaries isn't going to improve the level that those players play at unless it's enough to make them full time athletes. And that would require so much money to make the whole thing completely insane.

If that doesn't convince you, have a look at the crowds in the WAFL and SANFL. Similar competitions to what you're proposing, and struggling financially infront of crowds that are a tiny proportion of the heyday.



Well, no. But I don't live in Melbourne, nor support an ex-VFL team. So i'm not the target market anyway.

I'd like to see a genuine AFL reserves league so there can be a bit of integrity back to the state leagues (and hopefully rekindle some great old clubs from the former VFA). But I don't delude myself into thinking that will suddenly inspire thousands more people to flood the gates of the state leagues.
I think there is a bit of miscommunication here, that last thing that you said is what I'm advocating for anyway (to a certain degree). The current main problem with the VFL is thats its suffering from relevance deprivation, I mean really, what is the point of the VFL, at least with this league it would revert old rules back and restrict the coaches, and hope for an older style of game play, and market it as that. It would have a point so to say, the VFL lives off something it used to be.
 

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