Bobby Sands
Premiership Player
- Sep 12, 2013
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You don't trade Jack.
Prestia Deledio effect short and long term influence
- Thread starter gillo94
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You don't trade Jack.
Dr Tigris
Brownlow Medallist
All good brother, its all opinion and we have only got a few weeks left and then we have to find something else to do lol. You typed a lot so i cant respond to all of it but you write well and put some thought into it. You used GWS as an example of moving forward. When our team attempts to go forward the ball comes back so fast our defenders have little chance. We have nobody taking contested marks up the ground and are second to the contest .I think our guys have lost their faith to go long, im not convinced its our game plan. I suspect our problems this year were mental. I am actually expecting a massive improvement next year and Dimmas game plans similar. Think about it, we start hitting those targets on the wings and watch how our games appears faster to watch. Just an opinion.
Ps this holding off and not tackling thing................... i got nothing!
I guess what broke me was seeing players looking backward. You cannot play attacking footy looking the opposite direction.
Anyway, we'll see.
Ahh no its not time
Guessing when a team will win a flag is guessing, not realistic.
**** Patton lol
Oh me too man, the amount of times i mentally slapped Brandon Ellis..lol
I get that, but that game plan didn't work in round three .... round six .... round 12 .... round 17 .... and round 23.I am actually a believer in Hardwick, but what I saw most of the year was a deliberate attempt to maintain possession and work the ball laterally almost at all costs. I don't care who you have playing for you, if the opposition can consistently flood back inside your attacking 50 because you refuse to be direct, you're going to lose way more games than you win. Actually, Tony Lockett might have sorted out anyone foolish enough to fill the hole in front of him. Those days are long gone unfortunately.
The good news for me is if we go direct we'll probably win a lot more games. I remember when we were really s**t with guys like Laffy playing, and we still managed to kick more than three goals a game. I put that down to game plan. There is no way we were as s**t this year as 1987.
Anyway, getting off topic
Surely a good coach concedes his game plan isn't working and alters it. This bloke didn't .... even after saying at least twice late in the season we are going to alter things a bit this week.
That's why I have no faith in Hardwick to deliver a decent game plan, nor alter next year's if it comes undone.
Dr Tigris
Brownlow Medallist
This is what I find so difficult about supporting Hardwick. He has done some fantastic things in his time. And then he does 2016, and the finals (esp Norf). When he gets it right we look like champions, and then too often the coaching is a disgrace. Weirds me out. I hope that breaking up the boys group and challenging him, especially Balme being able to stare him down, can lead to him producing top notch coaching instead of hit and miss.
Groupie_
time to return the traditional Richmond yellow
in 3 years
2018+ these trades are a massive win from my perspective. We have an extra first rounder next year as a result of the Deledio trade. He may play 2 years - may play 5 - but there is no doubt a first rounder and a 3rd are an excellent return for a player who plays 30 next year and has 2 years of calf injuries which are known as 'old man injuries'. If you look at his build, his calf's are very skinny vs the rest of him and I don't know if you can read anything into this, but I think he is going to have to manage them for the rest of his career. He noticeably slowed for mine this year btw, though when he played he looked like a real footballer and not just a speed machine.
So we have to wait for those picks but still, in 2017 we are ahead list wise compared to 2016.
We did not pay overs for Prestia, but we did pay top $ - he wasn't a bargain. HOWEVER. The net result was a bargain when you consider that we were then were able to pry Caddy for pick 24 whom we would not have if not for Prestia. Our midfield's dynamic changed completely in two days.
Prior to this, it had some skill and contested ability, but was still out grunted and out gunned on numerous occasions, even with Dusty the Bull in there. Our midfield now has grunt, pace, ball extracting ability and hopefully a much better defensive aspect.
You could not be marked harshly to thing that Cotchin may get off the leash a lot more now and be back to the player he was when Jackson was and Tuck were running around near him.
The midfield rotation has at least 3 legit A graders in Prestia, Cotchin, Martin, then very dependable players like Miles and Grigg. To add to that I expect Edwards to strongly rebound.
Vlastuin is being played out of position at HB and is a beast - but there are only so many mid spots.
There are others who complement this mix like Conca and C.Ellis who may well break out this year.
That rotation, means at any time two of Edwards Caddy and Martin are freed up to go up forward. As much as Martin was awesome in the midfield last year, he is the most damaging 1 on 1 player in the land and having him up forward is a luxury most teams would hate to see us use.
Losing Vickery is a gain for us and also for the Hawks as he will slot in there nicely. Nankervis is a far better back up ruck than Vickery and plays hard once the ball hits the deck, which is what we need, far more than a marking target (which vickery did an average job of anyway). We will miss Vickery's goal a game and occasional very good game, but beyond that and more often than not he was a net negative with his lack of defensive presence.
Deledio should fit in like a gem at GWS up forward and I can't see them being beaten next year - or for years to come for that matter with the way the AFL stacked their hand and continues to gift them recruits to get better and better.
There are other positives to come from last year that should mean that the makeup of the team in 2017 makes the Tiger fan far happier. Rioli looks like a complete Jet as does Markov.
We do lack backups for our tall defenders in particular. One of Grimes or Rance go down and we are really thin on covering balls coming down field quickly.
To add to that the probable return of all of our running backs/small defenders :
Last year we missed McIntosh, Houli, Conca, Morris and Yarran for most of the year.
However having those all healthy (questions on Yarran) along with the emergence of Markov and Short will mean much better run and carry out of the backline, which we sorely lacked last year. (And no one in the media picked up on this)
The question on Richmond after this trade period is - can they change their game style to one of fast down the middle football followed by chase down tackling.....Because we are short on the fast cover defenders, I am not sure. For that reason, I think we are a 7-12 placed side as we will win many games on offence alone. However the teams that can overlap on our mistakes will still hurt us until we can better defend, chase and tackle all over the ground.
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I don't need to know about gameplans if we continue to play "chippy ring a rosy"; chip the ball around the field without going forward.
Hafey had a simple game plan "get it to the forwards as quickly as possible"; basic truths never change over time.
SOS could end up looking like a genius if the gws retreads come good or he could look like a clown if they dont. Jury is well and truly out. He drives me nuts though as a list manager. Wants the world for his players but only wants to give peanuts when trading in. Imo a good club (cats, hawks for example) wouldnt have stood in gibbs way and wouldnt have demanded a first round pick for a guy with such difficult mental health issues in yarran. SOS is proving himself and the blues to be very difficult. Bolts is your only saving grace
exceptional design
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lol Crazy Sossy!
Sos drafted these players to GWS
2 years pass
8/10 of these players are not upto it
2/10 might be something
Sos goes to Cartoon
Drafts the same players to tanktown
What do you call a fool that keeps making the same mistake over and over
5 years down the track and you will be reading the same posts about Sos as you do now about
Malthouse,Swan,Rogers,Pagan,Elliot,Collins etc etc etc
That mob are just Delusional
2 years pass
8/10 of these players are not upto it
2/10 might be something
Sos goes to Cartoon
Drafts the same players to tanktown
What do you call a fool that keeps making the same mistake over and over
5 years down the track and you will be reading the same posts about Sos as you do now about
Malthouse,Swan,Rogers,Pagan,Elliot,Collins etc etc etc
That mob are just Delusional
gillo94
Norm Smith Medallist
- Thread starter
- #138
Your making it sound like Tigers haven't had there fair share of dips on GWS players, like the rest of the competition
I don't understand how you can make a judgment on players who haven't really had much or a run yet due to injuries, like me saying Yarran has been a waste for Tigers
Gillo i didnt make a judgement. I said he could look like a genius or a clown. Jury is out. In other words judgement yet to be made. What i dont like is his attitude to trading.
RememberRoyce
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Agree. In fact, it should be easy for Hardwick next season. And for all coaches if they replicate the premiers game plan.
Just like u8s....everyone follow the ball until we get it, then scrap, knock and scrub it into the forward line till we get a shot on goal. If we get it out of the congestion, everyone sprint forward.
Simple game plan really.
Mate i explained both my positions in my original post.
Clubs that are widely respected for their attitude to trade and list management such as geelong and hawthorn make trades happen when their players request it for personal reasons. Carlton disrespected gibbs and lost a golden opportunity to land a 10 year player in the process. Last year sos was even worse when he threatened to keep a clearly struggling yarran unless we handed over a first round pick. As wed committed to yarran we found the pick. Sos knew of yarrans illness and would have seen him struggle and yet demanded pick 12 for him anyway. A good club would have facilitated a move for him to help his rehab. Sos and carlton clearly have very little desire to trade using a win win model which again the good clubs are respected for. Mate im aware the tigers have their own drafting and trading issues. Or at least we have in the past but if there is one thing rfc history has shown if you try and be a holes at the trade table it will come back to bite you. It appears it had already started as you are now left with a player who doesnt want to be at your club or in melb just because you thought you could squeeze more out of adelaide.
Clubs that are widely respected for their attitude to trade and list management such as geelong and hawthorn make trades happen when their players request it for personal reasons. Carlton disrespected gibbs and lost a golden opportunity to land a 10 year player in the process. Last year sos was even worse when he threatened to keep a clearly struggling yarran unless we handed over a first round pick. As wed committed to yarran we found the pick. Sos knew of yarrans illness and would have seen him struggle and yet demanded pick 12 for him anyway. A good club would have facilitated a move for him to help his rehab. Sos and carlton clearly have very little desire to trade using a win win model which again the good clubs are respected for. Mate im aware the tigers have their own drafting and trading issues. Or at least we have in the past but if there is one thing rfc history has shown if you try and be a holes at the trade table it will come back to bite you. It appears it had already started as you are now left with a player who doesnt want to be at your club or in melb just because you thought you could squeeze more out of adelaide.
Bobby Sands
Premiership Player
- Sep 12, 2013
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Plowman is not a hit !! He has shown signs that he could be a reasonable player but certainly wouldnt say a hit for now
Sumner is extremely average and looked the typical role player that will be delisted in 2 years, He will be 24 next year and cant see any upside tbh - just average ! Sam Lloys has shown more than Sumner and he's barely afl level so im not bias
Lamb ,Phillips, Whiley + Jacksh Are all spuds
Tiger Claw
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Classic.
gillo94
Norm Smith Medallist
- Thread starter
- #150
Sumner has been ok, getting regular starts at Blues in senior squad. Others you have mentioned have been in and out but Sumner and Plowman are starters
Keep in mind too that Jaksch and Sumner both had injury interrupted starts at Blues. Jaksch two years ago played R1 without a preseason. But I think with proper treatment both can be good members of the team
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