Analysis Preview and changes - Hawthorn MCG July 5th

[jackcass]

Which has been my point for weeks in fact before the season started to much derision

We need a defensive forward who loves to tackle , has pace and hurts

It's urgent as we're getting killed on rebounds too

Cox Thomas and Elliott provide substandard pressure

Only highlighted without stepho

We can't continue with all of them
Fairly obvious

I'd call Elliott a good pressure forward, does the defensive stuff (chases, harasses, tackles, blocks), rarely loses a 50/50 contest generally finding a draw at worst.

 

[whiskeytown]

Which has been my point for weeks in fact before the season started to much derision

We need a defensive forward who loves to tackle , has pace and hurts

It's urgent as we're getting killed on rebounds too

Cox Thomas and Elliott provide substandard pressure

Only highlighted without stepho

We can't continue with all of them
Fairly obvious

All the more reason to fast track Atu. Laid 9 tackles last week... and they aren't Blair like tackles.

 

[unplugged]

All the more reason to fast track Atu. Laid 9 tackles last week... and they aren't Blair like tackles.

What's the difference? Is he getting them around the waist as opposed to their knees?

 

[jackcass]

All the more reason to fast track Atu. Laid 9 tackles last week... and they aren't Blair like tackles.

Be nice to see that form line continue but how much of that tackle count was conditions related. I reckon he'd thrive in the mud and the rain.

 

[Thatsmyname]

He's a mudder, his fadder was a mudder, his mudder was a mudder

 

[jimmy35]

We need some real grit this week and for the rest of the year, fine trying to get that razzle dazzle footy going but we’ve fallen off being a ball winning side too much. The good flowing footy we can play can only start on the inside.
There should be a few players lucky to get another chance this week.

 

[Darkyprotector]

I'd call Elliott a good pressure forward, does the defensive stuff (chases, harasses, tackles, blocks), rarely loses a 50/50 contest generally finding a draw at worst.

The point is he doesn't relish it to the extent of what we need
I suspect stephos speed is really important as per our set up
I'm certainly ain't saying Elliott isn't a huge improvement
Just highlighting we're going nowhere with Thomas
Stats prove it

We're a better team with a tackling machine forward
Think it would change the whole thing up

Hope we play atu

 

[Darkyprotector]

What's the difference? Is he getting them around the waist as opposed to their knees?

I remember I played a afl game against guys from Newcastle ( rugby boys)
Never been tackled so hard
Really knocked me around

Atus a rugby player of high quality
Knows how to tackle
Puts momentum and heart into it
Vice like grip

 

[jackcass]

The point is he doesn't relish it to the extent of what we need
I suspect stephos speed is really important as per our set up
I'm certainly ain't saying Elliott isn't a huge improvement
Just highlighting we're going nowhere with Thomas
Stats prove it

We're a better team with a tackling machine forward
Think it would change the whole thing up

Hope we play atu

I don't think you'll find anyone arguing Thomas is having an impact the way we need or the way we'd like but he's never been a strong defensive forward so not sure why we should be expecting him to play that way. He's just not getting the same offensive opportunity he capitalized on last year which is why people are questioning his role in the side. So what's changed. I'd say it's more about supply and transition. Fix that and he's smart enough to find the opportunities to impact the scoreboard. Until we do fix that though it's time to try something different. I doubt A2B2 is anywhere near ready for senior footy so can't see him getting the opportunity. I'd say all of Broomhead, Crocker, T Brown and Noble would be ahead of him on the pecking order.

 

[jmac70]

The point is he doesn't relish it to the extent of what we need
I suspect stephos speed is really important as per our set up
I'm certainly ain't saying Elliott isn't a huge improvement
Just highlighting we're going nowhere with Thomas
Stats prove it

We're a better team with a tackling machine forward
Think it would change the whole thing up

Hope we play atu

When I read your posts I actually sing them.

 

[Thatsmyname]

When I read your posts I actually sing them.

That explains all the cats howling

 

[jmac70]

That explains all the cats howling

I’ll have you know I’m an excellent singer, and a brilliant dancer.

 

[jimmy35]

Just add dance enhancer.

 

[Darkyprotector]

I don't think you'll find anyone arguing Thomas is having an impact the way we need or the way we'd like but he's never been a strong defensive forward so not sure why we should be expecting him to play that way. He's just not getting the same offensive opportunity he capitalized on last year which is why people are questioning his role in the side. So what's changed. I'd say it's more about supply and transition. Fix that and he's smart enough to find the opportunities to impact the scoreboard. Until we do fix that though it's time to try something different. I doubt A2B2 is anywhere near ready for senior footy so can't see him getting the opportunity. I'd say all of Broomhead, Crocker, T Brown and Noble would be ahead of him on the pecking order.

I'm calling his out of contract situation last year made him pull his digit out
Ain't winning ball and now we can't disguise it

This year he's jogging around
TRying to do too much when he gets it
No intensity , lack of defensive effort no two way running
Affects the whole structure
The guys you mention offer no point of difference to what we already have

Maybe Tyler based on pedigree

Noble hasn't done enough
Atu too me was the difference
I stood behind the coaches box and all Were rapt with his output
If Crocker comes in does de goey play on ball

Does Crocker pay wing

This is all starting to reflect the 70s IMO , if only tuddy had some help
A lack of hardness, too much finesse and lack of physical presence

Cost us at least 6 flags then

 

[jmac70]

Hawthorn supporters are arrogant.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

When I read your posts I actually sing them.

I assumed they were all Limericks

 

[No SPIN]

Just had a look at the afl injury list. Couldn’t believe we had 16 .
The nearest was 14 with two teams and most had around 7-8.
This is one area we have yet to improve on in many years now.

It will be good for Billy to get a run this week but wouldn’t expect him to light it up on return. I would be happy with a hard fought win. Maybe not too hard earned though with the trip to Optus the week after.

Lift Pies




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Heard the NM fitness guys on SEN talking about REHAB of Majak - he sounds like a gun and also has experience in US NBA.
He would be a great get.

 

[No SPIN]

I don't think you'll find anyone arguing Thomas is having an impact the way we need or the way we'd like but he's never been a strong defensive forward so not sure why we should be expecting him to play that way. He's just not getting the same offensive opportunity he capitalized on last year which is why people are questioning his role in the side. So what's changed. I'd say it's more about supply and transition. Fix that and he's smart enough to find the opportunities to impact the scoreboard. Until we do fix that though it's time to try something different. I doubt A2B2 is anywhere near ready for senior footy so can't see him getting the opportunity. I'd say all of Broomhead, Crocker, T Brown and Noble would be ahead of him on the pecking order.

Agree - return to last years fast game and many players including JT probably settle into a familiar rhythm and comfort zone that produces improvement.

 

[jackcass]

I'm calling his out of contract situation last year made him pull his digit out
Ain't winning ball and now we can't disguise it

This year he's jogging around
TRying to do too much when he gets it
No intensity , lack of defensive effort no two way running
Affects the whole structure
The guys you mention offer no point of difference to what we already have

And my point was he never offered those things, even last year.

Maybe Tyler based on pedigree

Noble hasn't done enough
Atu too me was the difference
I stood behind the coaches box and all Were rapt with his output

Noble hasn't done enough yet he's played high level SANFL all season and has played really well for the past 2 games. Given he came in cold to a new system I'd say he's done more than enough. I'd argue that up until the last couple of games A2B2 has been non-existent so not sure why a couple of games suddenly elevates him ahead of a player like Noble. I don't doubt that the coaches would have been rapt given it was almost non-existent prior to last few games, they'd want to promote that in his game. Doesn't make him senior ready.

If Crocker comes in does de goey play on ball. Does Crocker pay wing?

Either could happen but I don't see why Crocker couldn't just slot into a HF role. Prior to the move to the wing this year it's been where he's played all his footy.

This is all starting to reflect the 70s IMO , if only tuddy had some help
A lack of hardness, too much finesse and lack of physical presence

Cost us at least 6 flags then

Yeah, the 70's was all down to a lack of hardness....

 

[Yidaki]

Hawthorn supporters are arrogant.

Meh. I think they should be considering they have beaten us 11 out of the last 12 times. Plus they are one of the only modern day sides to win three flags in a row. An air of arrogance wouldn't be abnormal under these circumstances. Of course you should never be too arrogant because things change.

 

[sideswipe]

When I read your posts I actually sing them.

Extra points if you are doing it with a Jamaican accent. That's how I imagine them.

 

[jmac70]

Extra points if you are doing it with a Jamaican accent. That's how I imagine them.

A few ‘erbs wouldn’t hurt either...

 

[DaVe86]

I don't want wholesale changes, but I would like to see a few small things happen:

1. Get Greenwood on the ball tagging.
I think when we have a full compliment in the midfield, that we don't need to tag because we can just back our guys to beat the opposition. But we are down Adams, Beams and maybe even Sier, so i don't think we can just expect our guys to win, especially since the guys out are our main in and under players. Pendles, Treloar and Sidebottom are a tad more outside and not your bottom of the pack types. Greenwood is a hard at it player who would want to redeem himself after last week. I would shut down O'Meara. I think it is arrogant to think our current midfield will just get the job done because it is just too undermanned. At some point, we need to put some attention into our opposition, otherwise O'meara will do what Cunnington did last week. If Aish is back, he can go back pocket in the place of Greenwood.

2. Drop one of Varcoe or JT
I get that these guys add pressure, but last year they were also hitting the scoreboard. Neither are touching it or kicking goals. I think you can only afford one of this type. Elliott comes in for Reid, but I'd also strongly consider recalling Broomhead as a more attacking weapon, or dare I say it Crocker who is at least in good form at VFL. Otherwise back in Daics as more of a small forward role.

3. Give De Goey or Maynard a bit more midfield time
I'm worried he is injured because we are just refusing to play him on the ball at the moment. Last week we desperately needed to, but Buckley gave him barely any opportunity. I know he doesn't have the tank of a midfielder, but he can surely play bursts. Otherwise, I'd strongly consider giving Maynard a run on the ball. He played the role once a few years ago in r23 against Melbourne and tagged Oliver. He did a great job and won a lot of the ball. He is also a big body and throws his weight around. I just think we need to reprieve Pendles, Treloar and Sidebottom from the inside stuff, so throwing De Goey, Maynard and Greenwood in there adds 3 harder bodies. If Maynard and Greenwood go in, then it could open the spot for Quaynor to debut.

 

[Eric_Melvin]

He's a mudder, his fadder was a mudder, his mudder was a mudder

His mudduer was a mudder?

 

[caloschwaby]

I'm no strategy analyst or anything, but this is what I think the team gets so wrong:
I wish we'd quit the heavy reliance on the zone defence we seem to employ that allows the ball to go coast-to-coast so easily. Get back to man-on-man when the game turns in to a grind and man up around contests. So many times last Saturday Norf would have 1-2 blokes just hanging off a pack, waiting for the handball and just snap it up the ground to a player (this happens a lot against WCE, but that's so far beyond us right now).

This idea I've termed to my brother as "offensive defense", where you man up no matter if you have the ball or not, works well in the centre clearences where all our mids seem to just run straight to the F50 with no ball, leaving opposition players to waltz in to the easiest F50 entry ever. Stay close to your man until the ball is in clear posession.