Universal Love Princes Park - 10th Feb 2019 Update - $15M Fed Govt Grant - Post #1709

AndyLucimitis

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Thread starter #1
Reading the article in The Sunday Age today on St.Kilda and Greg Westaway, this quote regarding match-day returns once again grabbed my attention:

"Geelong is another team which has control of its own stadium and can pocket huge returns on relatively small crowds"


Given our deal at Etihad is up in 2014, is there any scope to return our low-drawing games to Princes Park ? Even with the new building it must still hold up to 20K with standing room ?

I assume the real money is made on Corporate boxes which would now be all removed from the ground.

Does anyone know the maths on this ? Obviously, short-term a lot of money would need to be spent to get it back up to the Kardinia Park status but would it be an investment in the future ? Would it work on just 3-4 games a year or would it need 7 games a year ? Would we make better return playing to small crowds at the 'G.


.. or am I just an old fool living in the past ? :)


 

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#2
Reading the article in The Sunday Age today on St.Kilda and Greg Westaway, this quote regarding match-day returns once again grabbed my attention:

"Geelong is another team which has control of its own stadium and can pocket huge returns on relatively small crowds"


Given our deal at Etihad is up in 2014, is there any scope to return our low-drawing games to Princes Park ? Even with the new building it must still hold up to 20K with standing room ?

I assume the real money is made on Corporate boxes which would now be all removed from the ground.

Does anyone know the maths on this ? Obviously, short-term a lot of money would need to be spent to get it back up to the Kardinia Park status but would it be an investment in the future ? Would it work on just 3-4 games a year or would it need 7 games a year ? Would we make better return playing to small crowds at the 'G.


.. or am I just an old fool living in the past ? :)
For all the misery that he caused, and for all the misguided manouevres, Big Jack Elliott was dead right about this one. I'd like to think it would still work. Even for just the interstate teams. Must be worth someone doing the numbers.
 

AndyLucimitis

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Thread starter #4
Not sure if it would still be viable but I really miss walking down to PP on a Saturday pumped to watch the blues.

Not sure if it's just me but one of the biggest changes that has degraded the game for me personally is losing all the "home" stadiums here in Vic



If it was to happen I'd also like to the see the Northern Blues play the curtain-raiser to the main Carlton game. Again a return to the past to give us a chance to eyeball our up-and coming Bluebaggers !


(remember the old 'Reserves' legends from '70s's - John Warden, Peter Fyffe, Peter Hall, Brian Walsh, Graeme Whitnall ).
 

zeeCFC

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#5
The Gardiner stand would collapse with a sizeable crowd in it. The new development would look terrible on TV and the transport/parking options would be a nightmare.
 

AB_Blue

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#6
The Gardiner stand would collapse with a sizeable crowd in it. The new development would look terrible on TV and the transport/parking options would be a nightmare.
All that is true, but I would still go there to watch us play! Gws port maybe even freo are sides that draw poor crowds in vic
 

AndyLucimitis

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Thread starter #7
The Gardiner stand would collapse with a sizeable crowd in it. The new development would look terrible on TV and the transport/parking options would be a nightmare.


...and they are the issues (and costs) that would need to be considered. The Legends stand would still be first class and good enough for these games.

Your right - the Gardiner may have to go and be simply a roofed area with some basic seating and standing (a la the old Olympic Park).
 
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#8
Not the worst idea, but we are not presently a club in a financial position to spend on the necessary upgrades into an AFL arena. Maybe down the track at the completion of the next stadium deal.
 

happydude

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#9
Can't see it happening. The final nail of any possible return for me was the new facilities taking away seat behind the goals at the royal pde end.

Every year we are out and not keeping the maintenance up to afl standard the more cost and work it will need to get back in.
 

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#10
The last time we played games at PP we had 33,000 members, and people complained about the lack of general admission. Now we're aiming for 50,000. Could you imagine the outcry if 30,000 of them couldn't get in to see the game?

I know Geelong gets away with it, but that's in Geelong, not Melbourne. Different rules.
 

HARKER

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#11
Sadly, it's just not safe any more.
Even some of the early pre-season matches worry me as if anyone falls through some of the timber seating, there would be issues.
General facilities are also well below the standard we've become accustomed to.

Too many things would need to be adhered to and not sure that The Council would give us the tick of approval for development even if Carlton had the money and the AFL were keen.

Would be sort of nice though, wouldn't it?
 

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#12
The last time we played games at PP we had 33,000 members, and people complained about the lack of general admission. Now we're aiming for 50,000. Could you imagine the outcry if 30,000 of them couldn't get in to see the game?

I know Geelong gets away with it, but that's in Geelong, not Melbourne. Different rules.
That was certainly the reasoning behind the move to Etihad, but it hasn't exactly helped our bottom line- even though average attendance is up. I'd prefer 100% club profit and smaller low drawing game attendance, to making anonymous shareholders richer.
 

LanceRomance

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#13
Sadly, it's just not safe any more.
Even some of the early pre-season matches worry me as if anyone falls through some of the timber seating, there would be issues.
General facilities are also well below the standard we've become accustomed to.

Too many things would need to be adhered to and not sure that The Council would give us the tick of approval for development even if Carlton had the money and the AFL were keen.

Would be sort of nice though, wouldn't it?
Best hope would be to receive Govt funding once the globab recession (or what ever it is) has come to an end.

Or a very very wealthy benefactor.

Not looking too great especially considering it cost 140 mil to get metricon up to scratch.
 

Bronze

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#17
I live 200 metres from Princes Park and can tell you the local government and residents wouldn't let it happen even if the AFL were semi-interested. The residents used to complain about every game that was played there. Funnily enough they moved into the neighbourhood well after Carlton started playing there. It's like moving to Tullamarine and complaining about the noise the planes make. I remember Carlton were once exploring playing night games there too, but that never go past first base.
The re-development means there is bugger all seating now. It's a training venue now. Regardless, the AFL wanted Carlton out and with a little help from Ian Collins with his conflict of interest, moved to Etihad and made sure no AFL games would be played there again. (Don't get me started on that one)
For those old enough, just cherish the memories. :thumbsu:
 

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#18
I live 200 metres from Princes Park and can tell you the local government and residents wouldn't let it happen even if the AFL were semi-interested. The residents used to complain about every game that was played there. Funnily enough they moved into the neighbourhood well after Carlton started playing there. It's like moving to Tullamarine and complaining about the noise the planes make. I remember Carlton were once exploring playing night games there too, but that never go past first base.
The re-development means there is bugger all seating now. It's a training venue now. Regardless, the AFL wanted Carlton out and with a little help from Ian Collins with his conflict of interest, moved to Etihad and made sure no AFL games would be played there again. (Don't get me started on that one)
For those old enough, just cherish the memories. :thumbsu:
I remember when they wanted to completely redevelop it and put in the light towers... there was also talk of putting an underground car park or something to handle the parking issues. I think that we were also going to be aiming to bump the total capacity to about 45k IIRC.

I think that it would make a good VFA ground now and thats about it. Happy having the bullants playing their games there, but I really think that it wont happen ever again for Carlton
 

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#19
It is impossible.

It is actually law that Carlton cannot put up lights at Princes Park. Law.

That rules out any possibility of games because it allows very little flexibility for match timing within TV contracts.

Introduce a stadium into the mix that can only host day games and you suddenly devalue TV contracts by millions of dollars.

Will not happen.

Besides the question has already been asked and the AFL demanded MCG grade facilities which would have cost triple the amount CFC were prepared to spend. Escalators out the wazoo.

Just will not happen. Ever.
 

Azul

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#20
Since you mentioned St Kilda, they're selling a home game in Wellington, NZ.

There's more chance of us playing a game overseas than at Princes Park.
 

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According to the Princes Park Redevelopment Facts sheet released by the AFL in 2006, the Gardiner Stand was supposed to be demolished as part of stage 1.

Retain and significantly refurbish the existing Harris Stand
Retain and refurbish the Heroes Stand
Demolish the existing Gardiner Stand.
Demolish or modify the existing Pratt Stand
Demolish or modify the existing Heatly Stand.
Stage 2, under Smorgon was supposedly going to cost 106 million and demolish parts of the Legends and Pratt Stands according to this. It was supposed to include an underground car park.

It is impossible.

It is actually law that Carlton cannot put up lights at Princes Park. Law.



Actually its a condition of the lease which currently expires in 2035 according to this council ten year plan released in 1998. Big difference between a lease condition and it being law.

The lease covers rental payments, the social clubs obligations, traffic and parking matters, together with gaming and liquor licensing. It also limits the number and sizes of events and does not allow permanent lighting of the ground.
ref: Melbourne City Council, Princes Park Ten Year Plan, 1998 page 5.
That rules out any possibility of games because it allows very little flexibility for match timing within TV contracts.
Introduce a stadium into the mix that can only host day games and you suddenly devalue TV contracts by millions of dollars.

Will not happen.
If they can play games in Hobart, Manuka, Cairns and Marrara, they can play them at Princes Park. Of those grounds only Marrara has decent night lighting. As long as games can be played on a saturday or sunday afternoon you'd be laughing. The nature of the comp would mean that its realistically only going to be 2 or 3 games anyway. ie. GWS, Gold Coast, Port Adelaide etc.


Besides the question has already been asked and the AFL demanded MCG grade facilities which would have cost triple the amount CFC were prepared to spend. Escalators out the wazoo.
First Ive heard of this, got a reference for that?

Just will not happen. Ever.
Some fun stuff to note:

In May 2009, Swann told the Age (Blues talking up AFL return to Visy Park):

"It depends what the feasibility (study) comes up with, if it's a complete rebuild or refurbishment, it will take a while.
"But if it's just cosmetic, it won't take long at all."
This was backed by the City of Melbourne Lord Mayor at the time, Robert Doyle.

We would welcome Princes Park (as an AFL venue) on a number of points of view," Doyle told the Herald Sun.
"Obviously, it is in the City of Melbourne, and we have spent a considerable amount on the surrounding parklands and on Princes Park in terms of infrastructure upgrade
Evidently this got put on the backburner when the Etihad deals were renegotiated.

Finally, The request for submissions for the new Park masterplan in March 2012, noted that as part of the lease renegotiations the Southern Sport Area had been removed from available parking areas under the Carlton lease. This reduces parking by about 1400 vehicles.
 

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#22
I think it's very doubtful, there would be massive costs in getting the place up to AFL standard, I recon pretty much all the grand stands would require rebuilding, then there are issues with the location of the place. There are major issues with parking and public transport. It's capacity would need to be upgraded as I am sure the afl are planning that 30,000 crowd games will grow to be 40,000 crowd games in 10 or 15 years so a 30,000 seat stadium may not be practicle for the long term.

We got ourselves into massive debt from our last grandstand modifications and are still paying off the training facilities. I believe the works to get visy park up to afl standard would dewarf the costs of that wavey crap looking grandstand that got us into debt and the training facility combined. I can't see how we could afford it and I can't see it being feisable unless the AFL get involved in a big way which I don't think they will.
 
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#24
I would love it but it will never happen. We have to console ourselves with practice matches unfortunately.

Our break even at PP was 12,000 I believe. Geelong would be raking it in.
 
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