Society & Culture Principality of Hutt River.

[tandino]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Hutt_River

How far do you think this "Prince Leonard" character would be able to push his claim as the monach of an independent nation?

If the nation was to, say, start mining iron ore, or start attracting large amounts of "immigrants" due to it's status as a tax free nation and the fact that

Hutt River citizens are now classed by the ATO as non-residents of Australia for income tax purposes

Would some Government department step in and say "enough's enough, you've had your fun?"

It creates an interesting diplomatic situation.

 

[danielcan]

The Australian Government does not legally or otherwise recognise the so-called ‘Hutt River Province’.

The Tax Office has identified a situation where non-residents of Australia have been offered the chance to purchase international business companies and other entities purportedly incorporated or registered in the ‘Hutt River Province’.

We are concerned that the companies and other entities may be sold as part of a tax avoidance or evasion arrangement.

People should avoid any arrangements involving ‘Hutt River Province’ international business companies and any other entities as well as any associated international dealings because they have no legal basis and could be illegal.

Australian Taxation Office

I think I would take that more seriously than a dubious entry in Wikipedia.

 

[tandino]

There has to be some truth to it, doesn't there?

What is the real story over there? Do they pay Company Tax or Income Tax?

 

[Brad Roo]

He has legally annexed his province.

The Australian government deal with this by ignoring him.

Whilst the ATO warns Australian citizens of tax avoidance, they do not collect tax from citizens of the Hutt River Province.

 

[Brad Roo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Hutt_River

How far do you think this "Prince Leonard" character would be able to push his claim as the monach of an independent nation?

As far as he likes.

If the nation was to, say, start mining iron ore, or start attracting large amounts of "immigrants" due to it's status as a tax free nation and the fact that

The problem with the HRP is it is land locked by Australian territory and would have to enter in to agreements to utilise Australian ports and/or air space. Agreements that would never be granted.

Would some Government department step in and say "enough's enough, you've had your fun?"

Technically, Australia would have to declare war on the HRP and claim it's territory.

 

[Brad Roo]

I think I would take that more seriously than a dubious entry in Wikipedia.

Take note of the wording.

People should avoid any arrangements involving ‘Hutt River Province’ international business companies and any other entities as well as any associated international dealings because they have no legal basis and could be illegal.

There is an admission of doubt there.

 

[Caesar]

He has legally annexed his province.

 

[Brad Roo]

WTF, would a sheep like you know?

 

[Rob]

Well I reckon any debate over this is now over.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-16/hutt-river-province-decision-on-ato-fight/8624450

Took a while to answer the question definitively though.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Hahahahaha. freemen on the land are my favourite internet sleuths; unlike others of their ilk they regularly get punished by the state for being morons.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Yeah, as a teenager I thought this was cool. But obviously he and his family are just massive tax dodging dickheads. Bet if the media treated it as more than an occasional "hur hur" story it wouldn't take long to get a horribly racist quote about Aboriginals from the old bastard.

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

Yeah, as a teenager I thought this was cool. But obviously he and his family are just massive tax dodging dickheads. Bet if the media treated it as more than an occasional "hur hur" story it wouldn't take long to get a horribly racist quote about Aboriginals from the old bastard.

And on what basis can you accused Leonard of being a racist. The banks tried ******* him and other farmers in that area near Northampton in the 60s and he decided to cheat them and the ATO instead.

Their royal family is the only one I truly recognise.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

And on what basis can you accused Leonard of being a racist.

White guy refuses to pay tax and declares his own nation. Not really a leap.

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

Not really a decent answer to my question either. Ever been up there?

 

[Rob]

Lost his appeal. Reckons he might go to the high court, although he at least acknowledges their argument is probably hopeless.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-...lity-family-loses-taxation-court-case/9071216

 

[HairyO]

It was always a case of once the tax owed reached a threshold he would stop being humourous and start being a crook.

Guess the ATO decided on $3 million.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Just roll in with the tanks already...

 

[HomerThompson]

Not really a decent answer to my question either. Ever been up there?

Yep. Was touring around a few years back and made sure we stopped there. Spent a few hours looking around and chatting.
Still have my souvenir "passport" and money.

Interesting place - some bits feel like they're straight out of Pissweak World and other stuff is really interesting.
Leonard's an interesting guy to talk to. After you get past the self-promotion and showmanship guff for the tourists (including me) you realise he's a very, very shrewd man.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

So shrewd he owes $3,000,000 in taxes.

 

[HairyO]

So shrewd he owes $3,000,000 in taxes.

Owing a heap of taxes can be fine, if you end up getting out of having to pay them. Packer made it his passion in life.

Poor King Leonard did not do as well.

 

[HomerThompson]

$3m owed in taxes for 8 years..... so he got away without paying tax since 1970 until now?

 

[Long Live HFC]

$3m owed in taxes for 8 years..... so he got away without paying tax since 1970 until now?

you don't need to be "shrewd" to not lodge a tax return. you just, you know, not lodge it.

 

[HomerThompson]

you don't need to be "shrewd" to not lodge a tax return. you just, you know, not lodge it.

Yeah, fair call.
I was more thinking of all of his tactics over the years. He ran rings around public servants with his knowledge and brinkmanship.
eg. In response to the government threatening to charge him with treason, he declared himself a prince to take advantage of British law that still applied where if you accused a prince of treason and failed, then the accuser was by default guilty of treason themselves. Govt backed down and never mentioned treason again.

Talk to him about what he does with garbage, roads, low-level infrastructure etc. and he's full of crap about "making treaties with neighbouring authorities". He's pretty much a council ratepayer when it comes to local government services that he needs like everyone else; he just hates the state and federal governments.

 

[Long Live HFC]

He ran rings around public servants with his knowledge and brinkmanship.

ha, well speaking as one of those hopeless public servants who's dealt with dozens of these clowns, i can assure you that ignoring some loser who subscribes to legal nonsense isn't quite the same thing as having rings run around oneself. as HairyO notes, it was simply a matter a matter of resources and effort vs reward.

as no english law has applied in australia since 1986, i would suggest the lack of "treason" allegations in the last 30 years has little to do with the prince's brilliance. indeed, wiki provides a fairly long list of successful prosecutions over the journey.

 

[Donners]

ha, well speaking as one of those hopeless public servants who's dealt with dozens of these clowns, i can assure you that ignoring some loser who subscribes to legal nonsense isn't quite the same thing as having rings run around oneself. as HairyO notes, it was simply a matter a matter of resources and effort vs reward.

Exactly.

SovCits and their assorted variations make for entertaining lunchtime stories, but it's not like they're coming up with all-powerful loopholes.

They just spout a bunch of pseudo-legal nonsense and either get ignored or steamrolled - I saw the latter in a court hearing just a few months ago, and it was quite amusing to watch the punter quickly back down when he realised that pressing his argument was definitely not in his interest.