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Where is the idea of trading away pick 1 coming from?
An opportunity to draft a generational key position player and we would rather trade him to side who are expected to be dominant without that leg up.
How about take Boyd and back our new coach to develop him into the player those in the know expect him to become. A future forward line containing Hogan and Boyd would be something to build a winning gameplan around.
We would have plenty of trade bait ( Watts ) and free agency to improve midfield stocks and another preseason into Viney,Toumpas etc.
 
Well, assuming we trade Watts, we'd still already have Clark, Dawes and Hogan, with an increasing possibility of Jurrah returning, so it'd be an interesting task fitting Boyd into that.

As long as we don't see those ridiculously frustrating injury issues again next year, of course :mad:
 
Black Dynamite said:
An opportunity to draft a generational key position player and we would rather trade him to side who are expected to be dominant without that leg up.
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I do agree on that point.

Reckon it'd make more sense strategically to deal with the Bulldogs there instead. Or Carlton/St Kilda/Brisbane, for that matter.
 
Wonaeamirri33 said:
Well, assuming we trade Watts, we'd still already have Clark, Dawes and Hogan, with an increasing possibility of Jurrah returning, so it'd be an interesting task fitting Boyd into that.
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Pretty sure that article that sparked the thread about LJ's return was just a fluff piece about how he's out of prison and has sorted his life out. Still a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way back from an AFL return.
 

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Yeah, obviously I'm being pretty optimistic there. But the fact he's still clearly maintaining a strong connection with the club, and is showing some desire in that regard, makes me think it's something that could happen.

Certainly the possibility seems a little more than it was previously, when it looked like there was no chance.
 
Why is Boyd one in a generation? We've already got Patton, Cameron, Daniher and Hogan bobbing around who are the same age or one or two years older who are touted to be or already well on the way to becoming the bees knees. Anyone got any highlight reels we can look at?

We should offload pick 1 because if this guy is a lock for #1, he's a nice to have for us rather than a must have for the likes of St Kilda, Brisbane, Bulldogs, Carlton and so on who are desperately for a key forward. We should be able to downgrade to a lower first round pick and add in a decent player as well, or another decent draft pick.

There's no point having a gun forward line with Clark, Dawes, Hogan and Boyd in it (stupid setup anyway - you'd want to mark it or its coming back out at a rate of knots) when we still have McKenzie, Bail, Nicholson, etc delivering the ball. The game keeps on getting quicker and we're already far too tall - we need about another 5 decent midfielders for the depth to be consistently competitive across 4 quarters. It'd be nice if a few of them were better than decent so we'd have a bit of class and finesse in the middle so we're actually in danger of playing finals in a few years.
 
I'm not going to argue about expansion clubs with you Wonna, because your lack of recognition for them is childish at best. Suffice it to say that IMO, they are far better placed than us not because they have a better forward line or something like that, but because we are the most pathetic joke of a club since Fitzroy and they are not. Both their lists are stock full of gun youngsters ready to explode over the next few years. Ours is half spuds, half talented players who have lost any notion of how to win a game of football.
 
Captain Jack said:
I'm not going to argue about expansion clubs with you Wonna, because your lack of recognition for them is childish at best.
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Seriously?

Why should I start praising them for some reason just because they've been handed a lot of money and a lot of prime young players in the draft and in trading rounds, and ignore the damage that's done to traditional clubs in the process.

While Fitzroy were forced out of the league over a matter of $1 million back in 1996, having received no help from the AFL ever, only whiteanting and brickbats?

While Tasmania have always had a perfectly strong bid with a real support base, and continue to be ignored in their efforts?

Bloody hell mate, if you think that's childish... well, I guess I'm perpetually childish then, because that'll always be my heart-felt position.

I'll always see the health of traditional clubs, and expanding into areas where the game does have real support, as a higher priority than pumping untold millions into areas where there's very little interest in the game, and giving said teams huge concessions and various other forms of assistance at everyone else's expense.
 
As I said, CBF arguing the point because you are not going to change your opinion. Fair enough, you have every right to it, but my head doesn't really like brick walls.
 
Captain Jack said:
As I said, CBF arguing the point because you are not going to change your opinion. Fair enough, you have every right to it, but my head doesn't really like brick walls.
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Fair play to you there mate. And yeah, that's a matter of deep conviction for me.
 
Cannon82 said:
I think we can win the lot with the squad we have.

Diagnosis, doctor?
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I'll always believe we have a very talented list. And the thing about sportsmen is their ability doesn't have a ceiling like fans tend to perceive. At the same time, this list is very very far away from achieving their potential. They're all junior footballers whom have come to the club with a lot of talent and not developed that talent at all, and are still playing with the same intensity and desire they put in at junior level.

We need to see this improvement, the improvement of boys becoming men, and junior footballers becoming AFL players. This is what has stunted our 'rebuild'; we haven't had the coaching structures in place to get the most out of the players we've drafted. I refuse to believe that our drafting has been the problem. When you take high draft picks there's no guarantee they'll become gun players, it's just a greater likelihood based on their junior talent. Once they enter the system though everyone starts at the same place and need to a) physically develop b) improve to become better players and c) form team cohesion. We need to implement a coaching team that's going to get this out of our list.

The most disappointing thing about Morton for mine isn't how he performed in 2011 and 2012. It's how well he performed in 2008/2009 and the statement from him this year that the rigor of the training program at WC is unlike anything he'd seen at Melbourne. I know he has to take most of the blame, but if that's true we're partially responsible as well.

It's why someone like Jack Watts is still holding out on a contract until we assemble the coaches. Talent and ability aren't the same thing; sure 18 year olds may come to a club with talent in stacks, but they've never had AFL level facilities to develop it until then. And we've failed to provide this to our list since Daniher resigned. The list is only half the problem, if that.

***

On another note, would anyone else rather just draft Aish than trade for Sloane?
 
JackAttack7 said:
I'll always believe we have a very talented list. And the thing about sportsmen is their ability doesn't have a ceiling like fans tend to perceive. At the same time, this list is very very far away from achieving their potential. They're all junior footballers whom have come to the club with a lot of talent and not developed that talent at all, and are still playing with the same intensity and desire they put in at junior level.

We need to see this improvement, the improvement of boys becoming men, and junior footballers becoming AFL players. This is what has stunted our 'rebuild'; we haven't had the coaching structures in place to get the most out of the players we've drafted. I refuse to believe that our drafting has been the problem. When you take high draft picks there's no guarantee they'll become gun players, it's just a greater likelihood based on their junior talent. Once they enter the system though everyone starts at the same place and need to a) physically develop b) improve to become better players and c) form team cohesion. We need to implement a coaching team that's going to get this out of our list.

The most disappointing thing about Morton for mine isn't how he performed in 2011 and 2012. It's how well he performed in 2008/2009 and the statement from him this year that the rigor of the training program at WC is unlike anything he'd seen at Melbourne. I know he has to take most of the blame, but if that's true we're partially responsible as well.

It's why someone like Jack Watts is still holding out on a contract until we assemble the coaches. Talent and ability aren't the same thing; sure 18 year olds may come to a club with talent in stacks, but they've never had AFL level facilities to develop it until then. And we've failed to provide this to our list since Daniher resigned. The list is only half the problem, if that.

***

On another note, would anyone else rather just draft Aish than trade for Sloane?
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TBH I am all for this, we aren't going to play finals or set the world on fire in the next 2 years so we may aswell and take Aish and hope the right people are put in place to develop him.

But then we risk once again not being able to develop the kid into the star he should be.
 

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I don't rate Boyd. I am concerned he is TOO big a la Patton. I also think he's too pure a FF. Relative to the potential of Aish or Scharenberg I just think hes being overhyped because he is a KPF.

This is rare, but if the speculation on Boyd is so rampant we should let someone sell the house for him. If we get 6 + 11 off Carlton for him, or Sheridan + Adams + a 2nd rounder in a 3-way with GWS (Freo give up 1st 2nd and Sheridan, GWS get Freo 1st and we get the rest) then we will be laughing. We will still have pick 3 for Aish/Scharenberg plus Adam, Sheridan and later pick s to wield.
 
Cannon82 said:
Why is Boyd one in a generation? We've already got Patton, Cameron, Daniher and Hogan bobbing around who are the same age or one or two years older who are touted to be or already well on the way to becoming the bees knees. Anyone got any highlight reels we can look at?

We should offload pick 1 because if this guy is a lock for #1, he's a nice to have for us rather than a must have for the likes of St Kilda, Brisbane, Bulldogs, Carlton and so on who are desperately for a key forward. We should be able to downgrade to a lower first round pick and add in a decent player as well, or another decent draft pick.

There's no point having a gun forward line with Clark, Dawes, Hogan and Boyd in it (stupid setup anyway - you'd want to mark it or its coming back out at a rate of knots) when we still have McKenzie, Bail, Nicholson, etc delivering the ball. The game keeps on getting quicker and we're already far too tall - we need about another 5 decent midfielders for the depth to be consistently competitive across 4 quarters. It'd be nice if a few of them were better than decent so we'd have a bit of class and finesse in the middle so we're actually in danger of playing finals in a few years.
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Most keen draft watchers have hogan ahead of Boyd now. So he is most certainly not a once in a generation player that we should all lose our collective shit over.

We need mids and we all know it! Hope to hell the club has a longer attention span than some if its supporters!

Mids.



Mids.



And still, mids.
 
JackAttack7 said:
And the thing about sportsmen is their ability doesn't have a ceiling like fans tend to perceive.
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Don't know about that. Some people are more gifted than others, and while hard work and determination can make up for a lot of deficiencies, you can only make the most of your ability. As hard as Jordie McKenzie works, he will never be able to do the things Cyril Rioli does. Plenty to be said for hand eye coord, fast reactions, silky touch, etc... things you've either got or you don't.

Bang on about the improvement. More players than not seem to stagnate on our list after bursting on to the scene. Whoever, person or group, has been in charge of training / development in the last 5 or so years needs to give themselves a thousand uppercuts because they're ****ing hopelessly useless at their job. Gold Coast and GWS have built their clubs from scratch and are already better at that side of the game than the oldest club in the comp. Nathan Jones and maybe Garland (based on the big step up this year) have improved after nailing down spots in the side. Can't think of too many others who've pushed on for us? On the flipside, Morton, Dunn, Petterd, Bate, Trengove, etc etc etc the list goes on have burst on to the scene and tapered off and either out of the club or a squad player.


And yes to drafting Aish. I'd like to go after a player like Sloane but pick 2 seems a bit much. Would be much better in 2 or 3 years to be talking about how good a player Aish is and looking forward to he, Viney, Toumpas, etc smashing up the centre square for the foreseeable future.
 
I personally don't rate Boyd that highly either tbh. Great kick, great leap and great hands but he looks rather slow. Not sure if this is just because of his size.

But it's also possible that the only reason he's monstering the TAC is the fact that he is a monster.
 

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