Priority Picks vs. Soft Cap Relief

[Jugada]

But clubs like West Coast and Adelaide were handed an entire state to build from for a decade.

Sydney were handed COLA. Brisbane had salary cap relief of $1m.
Collingwood get handed ANZAC Day and the Queens Birthday, Essendon get ANZAC Day and Dreamtime at the G, Richmond play away finals at their home ground plus the season opener every year etc. etc. etc.

To strut around bemoaning hand outs to poor clubs is like Gina Rinehart moaning about how much she has to pay her staff and how welfare should be cut for battlers - whilst putting her hand out to the government for tax cuts.

All clubs get a decent share of assistance.

If people want an even comp (which the AFL clearly do) but also want the AFL to schedule blockbusters between the big clubs every second week - then they have to accept that the smaller clubs will get assistance in other forms from time to time also.

I dont think any club should be getting handouts in order to manufacture eveness. I dont even want an even comp if it doesnt come about naturally. I want a fair comp where teams earn what they get

 

[HTT]

But would that help Carlton as they haven’t been spending close to the off field cap anyway?

I suppose it wouldn't do anythinng, so no.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I dont think any club should be getting handouts in order to manufacture eveness. I dont even want an even comp if it doesnt come about naturally. I want a fair comp where teams earn what they get

But they've manufactured 'uneveness' already, so I don't really see a huge issue with balancing the scales.

Ideally though, as per the OP it would be done in a more subtle and effective way than giving a club Good Friday once and a Priority Pick.

 

[Jugada]

But they've manufactured 'uneveness' already, so I don't really see a huge issue with balancing the scales.

Ideally though, as per the OP it would be done in a more subtle and effective way than giving a club Good Friday once and a Priority Pick.

Nah ditch handouts, have a lottery draft and randomise the back end of the fixture. Make clubs earn what they get.

Marquee matches are a different issue anyway

 

[Juddernaut08]

Nah ditch handouts, have a lottery draft and randomise the back end of the fixture. Make clubs earn what they get.

Marquee matches are a different issue anyway

Just nonsense.

Imagine Scenario 1: GWS win the 2018 Premiership by 50 points. Win the lottery and get Pick 1 - Come on down Lukousius or Walsh or Rankine etc. Outrage

Imagine Scenario 2: Richmond win the 2018 Premiership, FA's jump at the chance to join a contender...and get Pick 1 - Premiers add Lynch and Pick 1.

Imagine Scenario 3: The draft and equalisation are seen as not important. Let's revert to the good ol' days where no-one but Carlton and Essendon could win.

 

[blitzer]

Priority picks should be non usable in the draft so that teams have to trade with them.
The reason I believe this is the timing of when the priority picks have an impact is basically 3-5 years + from the draft but the team is awarded the pick for problems in the present.

Brisbane is a perfect example - they got a priority pick and took the talented young Witherden. Did it help them in the next year? No he played 3 games. This year its starting to help them more. But its in 3-5 years where they will really feel the benefit.
If we look back in hindsight did they really need that pick? No, they already had a lot of young talent that just needed time to mature but people overreacted to the current state of their situation. The other thing is picks in that range are just as likely to fail as to succeed.

On the other hand if you have to trade your pick you can get a decent young player (maybe not a star) to immediately improve your list or perhaps package with other picks to get a genuine star. This will immediately improve you for next year.

The goal of a priority pick should be to make you more competitive quickly and not to give you a long term advantage and motivate teams to tank.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Priority picks should be non usable in the draft so that teams have to trade with them.
The reason I believe this is the timing of when the priority picks have an impact is basically 3-5 years + from the draft but the team is awarded the pick for problems in the present.

Brisbane is a perfect example - they got a priority pick and took the talented young Witherden. Did it help them in the next year? No he played 3 games. This year its starting to help them more. But its in 3-5 years where they will really feel the benefit.
If we look back in hindsight did they really need that pick? No, they already had a lot of young talent that just needed time to mature but people overreacted to the current state of their situation. The other thing is picks in that range are just as likely to fail as to succeed.

On the other hand if you have to trade your pick you can get a decent young player (maybe not a star) to immediately improve your list or perhaps package with other picks to get a genuine star. This will immediately improve you for next year.

The goal of a priority pick should be to make you more competitive quickly and not to give you a long term advantage and motivate teams to tank.

If I was GC and Carlton living under such a regime, I'd just agree to mutual swap trades:

Pick 2 for Nick Graham
Pick 1 for Michael Barlow

 

[RudyBlue]

Lower the salary cap floor so bottom teams aren't paying 95% of the cap on a team of spuds and can therefore attract experienced players/ free agents with higher wages.

Indeed.

A 25 year old recruit of even 'average' talent is going to have a much greater impact at a new club than the most exceptional 18 year old in the vast majority of cases. Draft picks are, generally, a long-term fix.

If we want to expedite the process of teams getting off the bottom, let them build actual war chests.

The current 95% floor makes for a highly inefficient player market.

 

[footyfan1978]

Anyone else think that the Priority Pick thing is a waste of everyone's time?

I think the Priority Pick is a waste of time.

Discuss...

It works more often than not.
Here is some of the times it worked to clubs advantage.

Sydney Swans... Anthony Rocca and Shannon Grant into 1996 grand final team after being absolute s**t in early 1990's.
Nigel Lappin part of fab four Lions premiership group
Dale Thomas and Josh Fraser part of Collingwood rise in the 2000s' to grand finals and eventually a premiership with Thomas a key part.
Nick Riewoldt & Luke Ball leads Saints in 2000's too
Luke Hodge, Jarryd Roughead and Xavier Ellis all part of 2008 premiership team and two of them club captains.
Chris Judd, Luke Shuey and Jack Darling at Eagles part of premiership contention times
Brett Deledio and Alex Rance helped Richmond make finals and one of them part of their first premiership in four decades.

Jeff White & Paul Hasleby part of making Fremantle competitive over recent decades.

Having said that, I have never liked it but it is part of system and had massive impact on what clubs rise to grand finals and even premierships. Some clubs that won premierships in past 10 years would not have without the priority picks that built from when really bad. It is no guarantee though, obviously, but massive boost when clubs got 2 or 3 pointy end picks in a draft and could give them one or two champs in short space of time to build on down the track when normally you only get one pick in early round. They have not given a pointy end pick at draft for years now though, so the fuss made of it, is kind of weird given pick 19 is earliest a priority pick that been seen for in recent times. I will be happy in future if priority picks are only seen to be part of a mid season draft and for mature aged guys at least 20 years old from state leagues.

 

[Ghossein]

priority picks are only a good idea if you think the draft order is a good rank of how good a player is, which is historically false

 

[Blackas87]

Anyone else think that the Priority Pick thing is a waste of everyone's time?

Carlton have had 800 number 1 picks, and they're still rubbish.

Will giving them a Priority Pick really help? And if so, when will it bear fruit? 2 years? 4 years?
Curnow is a superstar, but his output is still minimal really in terms of turning Carlton around - and he's nearly played 50 games.

And on top of that, does it hurt other s**t clubs that get shuffled back in the draft as a result?

I think the Priority Pick is a waste of time.


What I think, is that if clubs need help, they should get Soft Cap relief to pay coaches more, and get better off-field people and structures in place.

Not forever, but until they start to turn it around.

Paul Roos dud close to **** all at Melbourne, but Peter Jackson did an enormous job.

He, with the AFL's help changed the culture and turned their off-field setup around - and within a year or two they were on the improve.


This is where the AFL can help battling clubs, and facilitate clubs becoming competitive quickly.


Discuss...

Not 100% sure what you’re trying to get at here?

GWS receive the most cash handouts by the AFL, they are ranked 16th in club revenue but have the 2nd highest football department spending.

Gold Coast recieve nearly the same in cash handouts, surely the AFL are giving enough money to a struggling club like Gold Coast if GWS can get the 2nd highest football department spendeture. Difference between GWS and Gold Coast is one is using their money wisely.

Carlton have the 6th highest revenue, if the club with the 16th highest revenue can have the 2nd highest amount of money spent on their football department, then I don’t think the AFL should be giving a club like Carlton soft cap relief, they should have the money to spend on their football department already

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

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Not 100% sure what you’re trying to get at here?

GWS receive the most cash handouts by the AFL, they are ranked 16th in club revenue but have the 2nd highest football department spending.

Gold Coast recieve nearly the same in cash handouts, surely the AFL are giving enough money to a struggling club like Gold Coast if GWS can get the 2nd highest football department spendeture. Difference between GWS and Gold Coast is one is using their money wisely.

Carlton have the 6th highest revenue, if the club with the 16th highest revenue can have the 2nd highest amount of money spent on their football department, then I don’t think the AFL should be giving a club like Carlton soft cap relief, they should have the money to spend on their football department already

My point is that a good kid from the draft isn't going to suddenly make a team better.
It might take 3-4 years before that kid makes an impact. If they do at all.

Whereas the off-field setup that clubs have in place in regards to their recruitment, development, fitness and player welfare is where clubs seems to make quite rapid improvement when they get it right.

I read somewhere that St Kilda can't sack Richardson because they'd have to pay him out and that money would be part of their Soft Cap for the next two years, meaning that they'd basically have to get a dirt cheap coach to replace him and probably also go one less Assistant Coach for two years in order to not breach their Soft Cap.

In this type of scenario, giving them an 18yo kid from the draft would be far less effective than allowing them some extra room in their Soft Cap for a couple of years until they sort their s**t out.

 

[Blackas87]

My point is that a good kid from the draft isn't going to suddenly make a team better.
It might take 3-4 years before that kid makes an impact. If they do at all.

Whereas the off-field setup that clubs have in place in regards to their recruitment, development, fitness and player welfare is where clubs seems to make quite rapid improvement when they get it right.

I read somewhere that St Kilda can't sack Richardson because they'd have to pay him out and that money would be part of their Soft Cap for the next two years, meaning that they'd basically have to get a dirt cheap coach to replace him and probably also go one less Assistant Coach for two years in order to not breach their Soft Cap.

In this type of scenario, giving them an 18yo kid from the draft would be far less effective than allowing them some extra room in their Soft Cap for a couple of years until they sort their s**t out.

I agree kids don’t change a club overnight, and giving them more kids isn’t going to change it.

Looking at Collingwood’s and St Kilda’s football department spending, there is a $5 million dollar difference, what is the soft cap St Kilda can’t go over? Maybe they can’t sack Richo but surely there is room to hire some better support for him. Another fitness coach, another development coach.

 

[jackess]

I think Carlton should get an end of first round pick. It's just a little boost.

Given gold coast can't attract mature talent I think they should be given priority access to the mature agers in the state leagues and similar to when they were brought into the comp they should then be able to trade them.

Both clubs need help.

 

[Le Grille]

How about letting teams under strict guidelines “trade” for their next years first rounder, the idea would be a team could trade lower round picks using point values to get an extra first rounder (say not top 10), so they lose some lower round picks and next year first rounder but get an extra first rounder


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[Le Grille]

I think Carlton should get an end of first round pick. It's just a little boost.

Given gold coast can't attract mature talent I think they should be given priority access to the mature agers in the state leagues and similar to when they were brought into the comp they should then be able to trade them.

Both clubs need help.

Wouldn’t they theoretically be able to get mature agers in the draft proper anyway


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Aramis]

OP is referring to the soft cap which is about off field spending, not the players salary cap

Well technically don't all clubs have to use 95% of the player salary cap anyway? So I guess he was wrong either way you cut it.

 

[The Passenger]

Lower the salary cap floor so bottom teams aren't paying 95% of the cap on a team of spuds and can therefore attract experienced players/ free agents with higher wages.

Absolutely. It should be down somewhere around 75%. The a bottom two team has to pay its players 95% of a top two team is ludicrous.

It also places the lower placed clubs in a bind when negotiating a new contract. Naturally a player wants his salary to keep going up, but in a lot of cases players will be getting 20 to 30% more than what they are really valued at so the club could hit the salary cap floor.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Agree totally with lowering the salary floor. I have no idea why it exists, it's an enormous hindrance to both teams and players getting a fairer deal.

The AFLPA would never allow this, but i'd also remove player consent from trades as per the NFL/NBA etc. If you're under contract, the club can trade you wherever they like to get the best deal. If you're out of contract, you can go where you like as a free agent. Get rid of compensation picks and allow teams to trade players when they want to to get the best value for them.

 

[B4Bear]

What is this priority pick you speak of?

I expect to see my daughter's imiginary unicorn before I see one of those.

 

[nurries]

Move the Suns to Tassie !!

Then call them the rains

 

[bungalow_bill]

Buzz going around that Carlton/GC may be getting picks 1-5 including PP's and Lynch compo - C/S/C/S/S. Or possibly after the non finalists and before the top 8. You would think post first round is more likely

 

[Blues90]

I have a genuine question on what people think about this... was on triplem today that carlton and gold coast would get a priority pick before the first round ... now i know a lot of people are going to say it's unfair because it could go

Cfc
Cfc
Gcs
Gcs
Gcs (lynch)

Or
Cfc
Gcs
Cfc
Gcs
Gcs


however of course as a carlton supporter I would love it obviously why lie... but I know presidents will go "how is that fair but at the same time... how is free agency fair? Was brought in to help lower clubs but how many players have done that? They have all gone to clubs playing finals. Then they say "it takes clubs too long to rebuild" but then baulk at this when this would definitely help them.

The clubs up higher have no issue taking the unfair advantage of players leaving for finals rather than helping sides lower on the ladder so how can they complain about this?

Thoughts?




On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Le Grille]

I have a genuine question on what people think about this... was on triplem today that carlton and gold coast would get a priority pick before the first round ... now i know a lot of people are going to say it's unfair because it could go

Cfc
Cfc
Gcs
Gcs
Gcs (lynch)

Or
Cfc
Gcs
Cfc
Gcs
Gcs


however of course as a carlton supporter I would love it obviously why lie... but I know presidents will go "how is that fair but at the same time... how is free agency fair? Was brought in to help lower clubs but how many players have done that? They have all gone to clubs playing finals. Then they say "it takes clubs too long to rebuild" but then baulk at this when this would definitely help them.

The clubs up higher have no issue taking the unfair advantage of players leaving for finals rather than helping sides lower on the ladder so how can they complain about this?

Thoughts?




On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Honestly I don’t like it, teams have just gone through a period of compromised drafts, it unfairly penalises the teams that don’t bottom out.

 

[CarterS]

I have a genuine question on what people think about this... was on triplem today that carlton and gold coast would get a priority pick before the first round ... now i know a lot of people are going to say it's unfair because it could go

Cfc
Cfc
Gcs
Gcs
Gcs (lynch)

Or
Cfc
Gcs
Cfc
Gcs
Gcs


however of course as a carlton supporter I would love it obviously why lie... but I know presidents will go "how is that fair but at the same time... how is free agency fair? Was brought in to help lower clubs but how many players have done that? They have all gone to clubs playing finals. Then they say "it takes clubs too long to rebuild" but then baulk at this when this would definitely help them.

The clubs up higher have no issue taking the unfair advantage of players leaving for finals rather than helping sides lower on the ladder so how can they complain about this?

Thoughts?




On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Overly generous and would represent another about face by the AFL