Discussion Prison Bars debate

Should Port be allowed to wear the PBs as their home jumper?


  • Total voters
    100

SparkleNarkle

Pobody's Nerfect
Oct 3, 2013
2,114
2,934
Krusty Burger
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
DJRTP, REN, MIA, UTA
Is this guy serious? So a billion people can tell the difference between two NBA teams with the same colours, but 25 ~ million people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between two teams with the same colours?
Yes, because with so much exposure and money pouring in, they can pretty much do what they want. Not to mention that these sports are slower moving, on a smaller field, with less players than AFL, so it's much easier to tell them apart. And they're all quite happy to wear alternate kits in strange colours too

LMFAO. How so? Branding? Image?
So what's your brand and image? Besides colours, the jumper. It is what identifies you on the field. Here we have two different jumpers, with some similarities, and the same colours, unable to be used because some Victorians are too stupid to tell the difference, but apparently they can tell the difference just fine between the same designs.
To an outsider, these:

fhzmmde.png
xrxcgzc.png


are much easier to distinguish between than these:

collingwood_home_zps72538a68.png
76698_49ed118690c1942e44f7d81fea58d009.png


We're not stupid. We just think much more logically than some South Australians stuck in fairly land with their idea that two teams can wear the same colours and a similar design, and all will be well and good

Also, you've said that the jumper is what identifies you on the field and in the public eye, and then admit it's similar to Collingwood's. If you want to build a clear brand, wear this:

j2uez4j.png


Or better still:

port_heritage2_zps3928cef7.png


Wow. So it was a lot harder for 8 teams to come up with different designs and colour combinations, but it's easier now for 18 teams to come up with different designs and colour combinations.
Yes, because there was no such thing as printed jumpers in 1897. Or graphic design. The possibilities are endless today, in 1897 the various designs and colours that could be used were quite limited. The teams had limited resources available. If I recall correctly from information I've previously read, colours had to be shipped in from England. Far cry from today when materials and resources are readily available

You only want it to be the same competition, because without including VFL flags, Victorian clubs would be pretty average with the exception of Hawthorn and Geelong. They'd be marginally better then Fremantle with zero success.
You're missing the point. It is the same competition. I couldn't give a stuff about how many flags interstate teams have won since 1990. What needs to be acknowledged is that the AFL was (and still is) most certainly an expanded VFL. The presence of the original VFL is much less significant now than it was, but the origins of the VFL/AFL need to be acknowledged

Says the Victorian who just got done telling us how the AFL is just an expanded VFL.
I'm fairly certain that I'm the one explaining how the AFL is still technically an expanded VFL, so you're the one crying about how it's all about Victorians.

It's only a debate about bias umpiring if you decide to take it out of context of the overall comment and make it into a separate debate.
Of course when you are running out of arguments and the ones you do rely on are so flimsy and weak, I too would be looking to change the course of the debate like you are right now.
You brought unrelated issues into the argument, you can't back out now. Can't believe you think I'm taking the argument off track, when you were the one who mentioned umpiring in the first place. Umpiring has nothing to do with the argument and really you used it to make your ideas seem sophisticated and thought out.

You now represent the 17 other teams? Is there anything these Victorians think they aren't entitled to?
In this context, I feel I do. The argument really is just a section of Port Adelaide supporters kicking up a stink and failing to realise that there are 17 other supporter bases that are allowed to have an opinion (which has been evident in this thread), and kicking up another stink with them when they don't agree with 'what Port Adelaide thinks'. We're allowed to think differently to Port Adelaide

A Victorian says its reasonable for Port Adelaide to compromise it's history and heritage, but perish the thought the Victorian would suggest a Victorian team should compromise. After all, the Victorian says the AFL is just an expanded VFL competition.
Why should the Victorian team compromise? The VFL expanded into the AFL, and invited teams from around the country to join. You guys joined with a different name and jumper to the SANFL version of the team, and now twenty years later kick up a stink that the pre-existing team should change so Port Adelaide can get there way. If you want to control a competition and have your say, go back to the SANFL champ

For the same reason Port Adelaide should add teal to their wharf pylon jumper.
But Collingwood don't want to change their jumper, which is fair enough. They're happy with the jumper they have. Port Adelaide are the ones creating the issue, it is their responsibility to solve it. You can't decide that you want to wear a jumper that will cause problems, and then try and make another team fix it for you
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

SparkleNarkle

Pobody's Nerfect
Oct 3, 2013
2,114
2,934
Krusty Burger
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
DJRTP, REN, MIA, UTA
No one's suggesting that the PBs be worn against Collingwood's home guernsey. This seems to be a misconception coming through in the above post.
I've never suggested they wear the bars against Collingwood. It's the fact that it's not ideal to have two teams in an 18-team competition wearing the same colours and a similar design. When they are so many suitable alternatives, they should be discussed and be given the time of day for a thoughtful discussion before we go down the OGPB route
 

Dazzler10

Premiership Player
Apr 30, 2015
3,543
8,215
Te Fiti
AFL Club
West Coast
I've never suggested they wear the bars against Collingwood. It's the fact that it's not ideal to have two teams in an 18-team competition wearing the same colours and a similar design. When they are so many suitable alternatives, they should be discussed and be given the time of day for a thoughtful discussion before we go down the OGPB route
I agree it's not ideal.

But nor is it a major problem.
 

FPPF

Premiership Player
May 9, 2013
3,363
3,356
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Yes, in a 30-team competition colour and design double ups can be let slide because the options become more limited
If we had 30 teams in the AFL, we still only have 25 milion people in this country as opposed to the bilion or more who follow the NBA with it's 30 teams. How will outsiders be able to tell the difference, another one of your weak arguments. ????? Another 12 teams will magically make those weak excuses disappear will they? Just laughable.

What, wheres the consistency in your poor arguments?

Flipity flopity.
 

bomberclifford

Importer/Exporter
Sep 2, 2005
21,988
58,655
Cerebral Cortex
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Port Adelaide Magpies
I've never suggested they wear the bars against Collingwood. It's the fact that it's not ideal to have two teams in an 18-team competition wearing the same colours and a similar design. When they are so many suitable alternatives, they should be discussed and be given the time of day for a thoughtful discussion before we go down the OGPB route
It's a matter of our club having the right to reflect out heritage and history when we choose to, not when Collingwood allows us to.

The reasons for this are numerous but one that is at the top of the list is revenue from merchandise. One of the replicas we have worn in the past netted us around $1mil. That's a significant amount added to our bottom line and would be a huge boost to our ongoing financial future.

1. It's not the Collingwood guernsey, it's the Wharf Pylons/Prison Bars. Everyone knows this.
2. No one has ever suggested we wear it against Collingwood... yet.
3. It's our heritage, our history and our right.
 

SparkleNarkle

Pobody's Nerfect
Oct 3, 2013
2,114
2,934
Krusty Burger
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
DJRTP, REN, MIA, UTA
1. It's not the Collingwood guernsey, it's the Wharf Pylons/Prison Bars. Everyone knows this.
I know Port Adelaide fans, members of the FJGD and a good chunk of general footy fans could tell the difference, but the problem rests with casual fans. Given the AFL owns all the teams and their identities, I'm sure they'd want each one to be clear and different from each other

3. It's our heritage, our history and our right.
I respect the history that Port has in the SANFL wearing the jumper, however the fact that this is a different competition needs to be considered. If there's a possibility that a black and white prison bars will conflict with the brand and identity of a pre-exisiting VFL/AFL club, as well as possibly cause confusion among the community of casual AFL fans, then alternative options need to be looked at (teal side panels is what I've suggested multiple times in the thread but it's been overlooked)

So you honestly think that in that situation, Eddie and the Collingwood faithful would be ok with a new team wearing similar colours and design?
They'd still kick up a stink, but their arguments would have less weight as no doubt we'd end up with another team in blue, another in black and red, another in blue and gold etc. so they wouldn't be the only team unhappy. And in a larger competition, teams matching colours is more acceptable given the size of the league and the reduced chance of confusion
 

El_Scorcho

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2007
24,628
52,576
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Aston Villa, San Antonio Spurs
The EPL only has 20 teams, just 2 more than the AFL.

In 2019/20, they'll have

3 teams wearing blue shirts
3 teams wearing red shirts
2 teams wearing red and white stripes
2 or possibly 3 teams wearing claret with sky blue sleeves.
If they only have 2 teams in claret and blue, they'll have 2 teams wearing white shirts.

Life will go on.

The idea that because they're already a global league this doesn't matter is ridiculous. They had the same thing before they became a global league.

In 1992/93, the first year of the Premier league, they had

4 royal blue shirts
4 red shirts
2 sky blue shirts
2 white shirts
2 red and white striped shirts
4 teams wearing royal blue and white shirts in varying patterns.

And despite your insistence that this isn't ideal for a league going global, the Premier League STILL managed to become arguably the biggest sports league in the world.
 

Bowakawa

Major Leagues
Sep 8, 2010
3,150
2,391
3057
AFL Club
Essendon
I think Port fans/administration should be open to compromise and wear prison bars with teal integrated somewhere/somehow. I feel like the undying wish to return to black and white PB erases the Power aspect the clubs history.

Haters are baiting when they say Port Power and PAFC are different - they are the same - but two facets of the one organisation, and they both belong to a 150 year history.

The prison bars are the traditional strip of Port Adelaide, but teal is a traditional aspect of Port Power, to celebrate their history as a club, the whole history, they should marry them together. The PBs are a fantastic and unique design, the addition of teal doesn’t take away from that imo.

A teal yoke (or even half-yoke) with black/white PBs would be up there with the best kit in the league.

All this being said, while I’m not a libertarian - I think all teams should be able to wear whatever they want, neither Port nor C’wood own the black and white colour scheme, however Port did agree to not wear those colours when they joined - there’s not really any getting around that.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

TY24

Procrastinator Extraordinaire
Mar 21, 2017
1,845
2,746
6056 gang gang
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Arsenal, Scorchers, Glory, Wildcats
Port shouldn't have to compromise. They should be able to wear whatever uniform they want on their home deck, just like all other 17 teams in the comp do. It is on the away team to find a uniform that doesn't clash with the home team.

For years I watched my own club be forced into our away and clash jumpers at home because Hawthorn, Carlton, and Richmond got preferential treatment from the AFL, and it ****s me to tears to see the AFL protecting it's precious Victorian clubs yet again.
 

jle101

Debutant
Sep 3, 2015
62
51
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Williamstown Seagulls
To be fair, apart from the big Victorian clubs, the AFL seems to offer the most protection to the newer (Qld/NSW) franchise clubs above anything else.
 

caloschwaby

The One and Only
Jan 3, 2017
2,720
2,873
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Celtics, Renegades, Packers
it ****s me to tears to see the AFL protecting it's precious Victorian clubs yet again.
You're probably taking this far too personally considering you're not even a Port Adelaide supporter.
Also I too would protect a foundation member of the VFL vs. an expansion club that has only been with the league for little over 20 years.
 

TY24

Procrastinator Extraordinaire
Mar 21, 2017
1,845
2,746
6056 gang gang
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Arsenal, Scorchers, Glory, Wildcats
You're probably taking this far too personally considering you're not even a Port Adelaide supporter.
Also I too would protect a foundation member of the VFL vs. an expansion club that has only been with the league for little over 20 years.
It's more that I've seen my own club be treated the way Port are being treated so of course I'm going to be on their side of the argument.

All 18 clubs should be treated equally.
 

caloschwaby

The One and Only
Jan 3, 2017
2,720
2,873
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Celtics, Renegades, Packers
How many people really believe they will be able to return the PBs full-time? The wings campaign worked because West Coast actually wore it in the AFL and the tri-panels sucked.
It's quite interesting to see the amount of Port supporters in particular not even being receptive of the idea that they may have to compromise in order to return the PB's (such as by incorporating teal), given that's pretty likely the only avenue they'll have if the AFL hasn't let up now.
 

caloschwaby

The One and Only
Jan 3, 2017
2,720
2,873
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Celtics, Renegades, Packers
Is this guy serious? So a billion people can tell the difference between two NBA teams with the same colours, but 25 ~ million people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between two teams with the same colours?



LMFAO. How so? Branding? Image?
So what's your brand and image? Besides colours, the jumper. It is what identifies you on the field. Here we have two different jumpers, with some similarities, and the same colours, unable to be used because some Victorians are too stupid to tell the difference, but apparently they can tell the difference just fine between the same designs.



LMFAO. What a weak as piss excuse. Do you expect a serious response to this tripe?



Wow. So it was a lot harder for 8 teams to come up with different designs and colour combinations, but it's easier now for 18 teams to come up with different designs and colour combinations.
Yes, the spread of colours was so good, red, white, blue, black.
Everyone in world sport, hold up a minute, the Victorian "foundation" wankfest has a monopoly on these colours. They are their colours, only they can use them. Every one else adopt another colour please.



You only want it to be the same competition, because without including VFL flags, Victorian clubs would be pretty average with the exception of Hawthorn and Geelong. They'd be marginally better then Fremantle with zero success.
In the same mindset though, you don't want to accept that a non-Victorian club has history outside of the national competition. Hence the big fuss over what Port Adelaide wears and what colours it uses. It hurts your sense of pride and false superiority, that it is just the VFL under a new name, to have a non-Vic club with so much success, more success then your own Victorian clubs in fact. I'd be worried too when non-Vic clubs have almost won as many premierships since 1990 as the Vic clubs in a heavily biased pro-Vic competition. I too would be fighting tooth and nail to stop a traditional club older then most Vic clubs in the league with far more success then all of them from being able to wear a jumper it enjoyed more success in then all Vic clubs in the league, a jumper that forms part of that successful and strong identity and club culture.



Says the Victorian who just got done telling us how the AFL is just an expanded VFL.



It's only a debate about bias umpiring if you decide to take it out of context of the overall comment and make it into a separate debate.
Of course when you are running out of arguments and the ones you do rely on are so flimsy and weak, I too would be looking to change the course of the debate like you are right now.



You now represent the 17 other teams? Is there anything these Victorians think they aren't entitled to?



A Victorian says its reasonable for Port Adelaide to compromise it's history and heritage, but perish the thought the Victorian would suggest a Victorian team should compromise. After all, the Victorian says the AFL is just an expanded VFL competition.



For the same reason Port Adelaide should add teal to their wharf pylon jumper.
I really hate having a crack at anyone in particular, but I just find your tone and attitude toward this discussion is completely unnecessary, counter-productive and on some points just rude. It's clear your position comes from your hatred of the Victoria-centric AFL which makes me wonder how you would reply if nobody could see which teams each other went for.
 

RossFC

Moderator
May 23, 2012
45,254
68,026
Alberton Oval
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool
I think Port fans/administration should be open to compromise and wear prison bars with teal integrated somewhere/somehow. I feel like the undying wish to return to black and white PB erases the Power aspect the clubs history.

Haters are baiting when they say Port Power and PAFC are different - they are the same - but two facets of the one organisation, and they both belong to a 150 year history.

The prison bars are the traditional strip of Port Adelaide, but teal is a traditional aspect of Port Power, to celebrate their history as a club, the whole history, they should marry them together. The PBs are a fantastic and unique design, the addition of teal doesn’t take away from that imo.

A teal yoke (or even half-yoke) with black/white PBs would be up there with the best kit in the league.

All this being said, while I’m not a libertarian - I think all teams should be able to wear whatever they want, neither Port nor C’wood own the black and white colour scheme, however Port did agree to not wear those colours when they joined - there’s not really any getting around that.
Teal and silver/grey doesn't have to go away. It can be supplementary colours, colours used in away/clash/pre-season jumpers.
 

Royces Hart

I’m not your therapist
Oct 5, 2007
1,501
4,292
Punt Road
AFL Club
Richmond
Also I too would protect a foundation member of the VFL vs. an expansion club that has only been with the league for little over 20 years.
Why? Aren’t all clubs in the AFL equal components of the league?

Do foundation clubs deserve better treatment at the tribunal? What other benefits do they deserve?
 

FPPF

Premiership Player
May 9, 2013
3,363
3,356
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I really hate having a crack at anyone in particular, but I just find your tone and attitude toward this discussion is completely unnecessary, counter-productive and on some points just rude. It's clear your position comes from your hatred of the Victoria-centric AFL which makes me wonder how you would reply if nobody could see which teams each other went for.
Do you find people swearing at others rude, unnecessary, and counter productive?
Do you find condescending attitudes to be rude, unnecessary and counter productive?
Or is my tone merely a problem here for you because I'm shredding the weak arguments being put forward against Port wearing the wharf pylon jumper?

Would you like to provide a counter argument to anything? Can you tell us, in your opinion, why the A League which has fewer teams, is able to have two clubs with the same single coloured jumper, but the AFL can not have two clubs with two different designs for jumpers using the same colours?

Or are you guys simply unable to accept two clubs in the AFL using the same colours, as happens in many other codes/leagues around the world?
I'm genuinely curious about this. It's not a problem in many leagues around the world, even here in our own A League which is smaller.
One argument put forward was there's only 18 teams so it can't work but if there were 30 teams like the NBA it would work (why it would suddenly work then and not now who knows) have been debunked by showing that the A League manages to do it with fewer teams and a smaller market share.
 

El_Scorcho

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2007
24,628
52,576
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Aston Villa, San Antonio Spurs
How many people really believe they will be able to return the PBs full-time? The wings campaign worked because West Coast actually wore it in the AFL and the tri-panels sucked.
It's quite interesting to see the amount of Port supporters in particular not even being receptive of the idea that they may have to compromise in order to return the PB's (such as by incorporating teal), given that's pretty likely the only avenue they'll have if the AFL hasn't let up now.
The AFL have never been subject to a proper, sustained campaign by the club and supporters.

Port have been comprising their identity for 22 years. What has become increasingly obvious is that there is no need to do it. There is no precedent where 2 teams wearing the same colours at the elite level harms either of those teams. Port has worn the bars now at AFL level 4 times and Collingwood haven't been even slightly affected.

The AFL is stronger when it's clubs are stronger, and Port is stronger when it's allowed to lean on its history as much as possible.

Compromise is totally unnecessary because nobody has to give anything up for Port to be allowed to wear the bars. There's nothing to negotiate. It's a matter of natural justice, that Port Adelaide be allowed to wear it's rightful uniform just like every other team in every other major sports league in the world.
 

bomberclifford

Importer/Exporter
Sep 2, 2005
21,988
58,655
Cerebral Cortex
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Port Adelaide Magpies
It's quite interesting to see the amount of Port supporters in particular not even being receptive of the idea that they may have to compromise in order to return the PB's (such as by incorporating teal), given that's pretty likely the only avenue they'll have if the AFL hasn't let up now.
Prison Bars with teal are not the Prison Bars. It's all or nothing.
 

caloschwaby

The One and Only
Jan 3, 2017
2,720
2,873
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Celtics, Renegades, Packers
Do you find people swearing at others rude, unnecessary, and counter productive?
Do you find condescending attitudes to be rude, unnecessary and counter productive?
Or is my tone merely a problem here for you because I'm shredding the weak arguments being put forward against Port wearing the wharf pylon jumper?

Would you like to provide a counter argument to anything? Can you tell us, in your opinion, why the A League which has fewer teams, is able to have two clubs with the same single coloured jumper, but the AFL can not have two clubs with two different designs for jumpers using the same colours?

Or are you guys simply unable to accept two clubs in the AFL using the same colours, as happens in many other codes/leagues around the world?
I'm genuinely curious about this. It's not a problem in many leagues around the world, even here in our own A League which is smaller.
One argument put forward was there's only 18 teams so it can't work but if there were 30 teams like the NBA it would work (why it would suddenly work then and not now who knows) have been debunked by showing that the A League manages to do it with fewer teams and a smaller market share.
Again, you come across as completely narcissistic and it's simply not on to take personal jabs at fellow members of the board like you have because they slightly disagree.
I can provide a counter argument, but it means nothing because you and 100% of this board on both sides have already made up their mind and there is no debate in this case. None of us on this board can control anything, so delivering personally-charged comments to people trying to have a decent discussion just makes said discussion toxic and yes, quite unproductive.
 
Top Bottom