Discussion Prison Bars debate

[Nickimus Rex]

Port Adelaide: "Collingwood and the AFL are being petty and unfair."

Also Port Adelaide: "Hey, Gold Coast, we forbid you to wear red."

What does this even mean? When were Gold Coast not allowed to wear red?
Their last meeting at Adelaide oval they both wore their home kits.. in fact every time they have played they have worn red

 

[Teen Wolf]

the suns always have (and did have at the time) an alternate strip with blue on it.

Yes I think I knew that, just not sure what it has to do with Port being hypocrites.

their official colours are red gold and blue

As demonstrated on their home jumper as well.

What does this even mean? When were Gold Coast not allowed to wear red?
Their last meeting at Adelaide oval they both wore their home kits.. in fact every time they have played they have worn red

Gold Coast will always be allowed to wear their main red jumper in home games, because it's part of their official uniform. Whether Kochie likes it or not.

Seeing red: David Koch's ultimatum to Gold Coast Suns over jumper for Shanghai match

Port Adelaide president David Koch has told Gold Coast Suns if they wear red-and-gold jumpers in their match in Shanghai it will be the last time they are invited to China.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Nickimus Rex]

Yes I think I knew that, just not sure what it has to do with Port being hypocrites.


As demonstrated on their home jumper as well.


Gold Coast will always be allowed to wear their main red jumper in home games, because it's part of their official uniform. Whether Kochie likes it or not.

Seeing red: David Koch's ultimatum to Gold Coast Suns over jumper for Shanghai match

Port Adelaide president David Koch has told Gold Coast Suns if they wear red-and-gold jumpers in their match in Shanghai it will be the last time they are invited to China.

www.theage.com.au

This was a very specific circumstance where the game was being played in another country that had red and yellow as the national colours (a country that is very passionate about the colours themselves) - clearly this would mean that they (gold coast) would get the most support from local crowds. Koch is an idiot but it's not really a similar thing. Unless you're somehow implying that by not allowing the prison bars Eddie is a communist, which i'm totally okay with

This is what happens though when you have two media personalities given positions of power, instead of people not listening to them when they say random crap, people go "hold on, there's a story here".

 

[KBLT]

Port Adelaide: "Collingwood and the AFL are being petty and unfair."

Also Port Adelaide: "Hey, Gold Coast, we forbid you to wear red."

Given the facts that Port went to the trouble of hosting games in China, and that China's national colours are red and yellow and their people might favour a team wearing exclusively those colours, I think it's fair to ask Gold Coast not to wear a predominantly red and yellow kit for one game, especially when they have a blue kit.

But hey, don't let that get in the way of a good strawman.

 

[RossFC]

Port fans told Kochie it was fine and Gold Coast ended up wearing their home jumper anyway.

 

[Teen Wolf]

This was a very specific circumstance where the game was being played in another country that had red and yellow as the national colours (a country that is very passionate about the colours themselves) - clearly this would mean that they (gold coast) would get the most support from local crowds. Koch is an idiot but it's not really a similar thing. Unless you're somehow implying that by not allowing the prison bars Eddie is a communist, which i'm totally okay with

Given the facts that Port went to the trouble of hosting games in China, and that China's national colours are red and yellow and their people might favour a team wearing exclusively those colours, I think it's fair to ask Gold Coast not to wear a predominantly red and yellow kit for one game, especially when they have a blue kit.

Well you've both made it very clear that you think it's ok to tell a home team what jumper they can wear, and you are entitled to that opinion.

 

[Nickimus Rex]

Well you've both made it very clear that you think it's ok to tell a home team what jumper they can wear, and you are entitled to that opinion.

Did i agree with him? i thought called Kochi an idiot? I understand his point of view, but i don't i've ever agreed with him.
The next year they played the Saints instead of the Suns though, because i think they were more agreeable to not be dressed in the colours of the workers party

 

[jle101]

View attachment 1114222

How come Aston Villa are fielding three teams this season? *herp derp*

 

[Heardy_101]

To be fair.

I did think it was pretty rich of us to ask that the Gold Coast, a fledgling club with bugger all support, to give up a home game and then demand they wear their clash jumper.

Mind you I was - and still am - vehemently against the China experiment anyway as I firmly believe it impacted on our form in the matches afterwards.

 

[Zer0]

I honestly hope this goes to Federal court, it will set a precedent.

Afterwards, there will some past jumper decisions I will be taking to court. Watch this space...

 

[lionbear]

Been thinking about this the last 24 hours:

Does anyone look at Port's Prison Bar Jumper and Collingwood's stripes jumper and actually get them confused?

If Collingwood own black and white, does this give Geelong the power to block Carlton and make them change the white on their jumper to another color?

I just feel this whole debate is sort of a Collingwood dont want Port to have their toy because they just don't want to, as I have never looked at Colingwood's jumper and thought Port, or Port's jumper and thought Collingwood.

And I think no matter what we think an all South Australian affair should be able to recognize their SANFL heritage in any way they want.

I agree on the Magpies name not being used (See Castlemaine and Maryborough in he BFL for that issue)

But yes the VFL won the race to establish a national league over the SANFL and WAFL, but that shouldn't mean Port cant recognize their heritage.

For it to happen though, it would have to be a very FINAL Document, that says Port can only use it in all SA club games (If a third SA club come in one day)

This whole thing has become so Petty, Eddie just looks like a 2 year old now.

 

[RossFC]

I agree on the Magpies name not being used

I can assure you, we are not looking to change our nickname to Magpies at AFL level.

 

[KBLT]

Well you've both made it very clear that you think it's ok to tell a home team what jumper they can wear, and you are entitled to that opinion.

Completely different scenarios. One match with a unique situation in an alternate kit that already existed versus not allowing a team to wear their traditional kit whatsoever.

It's not like the prison bars and Collingwoods home kit would be worn in the same game. Both teams would have alternate guernseys.

 

[justlookingaround]

Been thinking about this the last 24 hours:

Does anyone look at Port's Prison Bar Jumper and Collingwood's stripes jumper and actually get them confused?

If Collingwood own black and white, does this give Geelong the power to block Carlton and make them change the white on their jumper to another color?

I just feel this whole debate is sort of a Collingwood dont want Port to have their toy because they just don't want to, as I have never looked at Colingwood's jumper and thought Port, or Port's jumper and thought Collingwood.

And I think no matter what we think an all South Australian affair should be able to recognize their SANFL heritage in any way they want.

I agree on the Magpies name not being used (See Castlemaine and Maryborough in he BFL for that issue)

But yes the VFL won the race to establish a national league over the SANFL and WAFL, but that shouldn't mean Port cant recognize their heritage.

For it to happen though, it would have to be a very FINAL Document, that says Port can only use it in all SA club games (If a third SA club come in one day)

This whole thing has become so Petty, Eddie just looks like a 2 year old now.

I don't think it's about brand confusion as much as it's about wanting to maintain status-quo.

 

[parano1a]

Does anyone look at Port's Prison Bar Jumper and Collingwood's stripes jumper and actually get them confused?

Existing AFL fans are not likely to be confused. However this is about wider brand recognition.

Show the below image to 20 random people on the street in Sydney or Brisbane and ask them to identify which team it is.
I guarantee more than 50% of responses will be "Collingwood".

 

[magpienato]

I just feel this whole debate is sort of a Collingwood dont want Port to have their toy because they just don't want to, as I have never looked at Colingwood's jumper and thought Port, or Port's jumper and thought Collingwood.

I just don't understand how Collingwood is at fault at all or being treated like the 'bad guys' in this situation. We are well within our rights to hold Port to their contract they agreed to when they entered AFL. That's pretty much the bottom line of this debate, for me anyway.

The fact that Eddie has allowed Port to wear it as much times as they have in their AFL history is actually pretty generous I feel. It's quite clear to me that Collingwood have been happy to allow Port to wear the PB in a Heritage setting, even rare occasions where there is no heritage (Elimination Final 2014). So to paint Collingwood as the antagonists in this story is just bad-faith.

Now I don't agree with the AFL's decision to deny Port's request to wear the PB for Showdown, because I feel this is one of those cases were it is Heritage related. But it's just that, the AFL's decision. And there's no Eddie anymore for people to pin the blame on.

The reason I don't interact with this thread as much as I'd like to is because it really gets nowhere. Port supporters are passionate about their club and its history, Collingwood supports are just as passionate about their club and history too which is why this otherwise trivial debate is bigger than it is.

 

[Nickimus Rex]

I just don't understand how Collingwood is at fault at all or being treated like the 'bad guys' in this situation. We are well within our rights to hold Port to their contract they agreed to when they entered AFL. That's pretty much the bottom line of this debate, for me anyway.

The fact that Eddie has allowed Port to wear it as much times as they have in their AFL history is actually pretty generous I feel. It's quite clear to me that Collingwood have been happy to allow Port to wear the PB in a Heritage setting, even rare occasions where there is no heritage (Elimination Final 2014). So to paint Collingwood as the antagonists in this story is just bad-faith.

Now I don't agree with the AFL's decision to deny Port's request to wear the PB for Showdown, because I feel this is one of those cases were it is Heritage related. But it's just that, the AFL's decision. And there's no Eddie anymore for people to pin the blame on.

The reason I don't interact with this thread as much as I'd like to is because it really gets nowhere. Port supporters are passionate about their club and its history, Collingwood supports are just as passionate about their club and history too which is why this otherwise trivial debate is bigger than it is.

I vote we let the Lions wear the QAFL prison bars. Fight me, plebs.

 

[Fizzler]

The big difference would be the Suns want to wear their official colours, whereas Port Adelaide don't.

Port Adelaide's Ofiicial Colours:
Black, White, Teal, Silver.
There's no rule saying clubs have to wear all their colours, otherwise Collingwood would have to wear gold in all of their jumpers.
From AFL Brandzone

 

[Liam Boy]

Existing AFL fans are not likely to be confused. However this is about wider brand recognition.

Show the below image to 20 random people on the street in Sydney or Brisbane and ask them to identify which team it is.
I guarantee more than 50% of responses will be "Collingwood".

View attachment 1114991

if port were wearing it all the time that would immediately change. if carlton were known for wearing orange and you showed someone the navy blue cfc strip, they probably wouldn't know what club that was either

 

[Fizzler]

I just don't understand how Collingwood is at fault at all or being treated like the 'bad guys' in this situation. We are well within our rights to hold Port to their contract they agreed to when they entered AFL. That's pretty much the bottom line of this debate, for me anyway.

The fact that Eddie has allowed Port to wear it as much times as they have in their AFL history is actually pretty generous I feel. It's quite clear to me that Collingwood have been happy to allow Port to wear the PB in a Heritage setting, even rare occasions where there is no heritage (Elimination Final 2014). So to paint Collingwood as the antagonists in this story is just bad-faith.

Now I don't agree with the AFL's decision to deny Port's request to wear the PB for Showdown, because I feel this is one of those cases were it is Heritage related. But it's just that, the AFL's decision. And there's no Eddie anymore for people to pin the blame on.

The reason I don't interact with this thread as much as I'd like to is because it really gets nowhere. Port supporters are passionate about their club and its history, Collingwood supports are just as passionate about their club and history too which is why this otherwise trivial debate is bigger than it is.

I'm not sure it's wise to necessarily paint Collingwood as the bad guys here either. I think in terms of who is worth being mad at here number 1 is the AFL for caving in like this and number 2 is Eddie for making this into more of an issue than it is and spreading misinformation. Collingwood would be third imo but by a fair way.
Definitely not true to say Collingwood have always been happy to let us wear it everytime though, there was a whole shitshow for the 2020 edition, we were denied the right to wear it in 2014 to celebrate 100 years since the 1914 Invincibles season, we didn't get to wear the bars in the 2006 80s heritage round, I could go on and on and on.
It's not a topic worth being made into a huge thing like this though, it's just getting frustrating now for all parties and making me hate teal in the process.

 

[lionbear]

I just don't understand how Collingwood is at fault at all or being treated like the 'bad guys' in this situation. We are well within our rights to hold Port to their contract they agreed to when they entered AFL. That's pretty much the bottom line of this debate, for me anyway.

The fact that Eddie has allowed Port to wear it as much times as they have in their AFL history is actually pretty generous I feel. It's quite clear to me that Collingwood have been happy to allow Port to wear the PB in a Heritage setting, even rare occasions where there is no heritage (Elimination Final 2014). So to paint Collingwood as the antagonists in this story is just bad-faith.

Now I don't agree with the AFL's decision to deny Port's request to wear the PB for Showdown, because I feel this is one of those cases were it is Heritage related. But it's just that, the AFL's decision. And there's no Eddie anymore for people to pin the blame on.

The reason I don't interact with this thread as much as I'd like to is because it really gets nowhere. Port supporters are passionate about their club and its history, Collingwood supports are just as passionate about their club and history too which is why this otherwise trivial debate is bigger than it is.

I don't think its the Collingwood supporters that everyone is treating like the bad guys, in 1995 I can see where this refusal on Port came from, but we are now dealing in a different era:

Clash Jumpers are now the norm
One off jumpers are now the norm

Port is the one club in the league that has existed pre 1980 and has a non VFL background, I think we are trying to be a national competition and for that to truly work then ALL clubs should be allowed to show off their history in the way they feel is fair and REASONABLE.

I think the prison bar jumper in games against South Australian clubs meets this criteria.

I think the bad guy here is Eddie as he is so unwilling to even consider both sides of the argument here, and the fact that he deliberately mislead Port Adelaide in 2007 knowing Heritage round was on its last legs shows how far he was willing to go over a issue that needs to be at least debated fairly.

 

[lionbear]

Existing AFL fans are not likely to be confused. However this is about wider brand recognition.

Show the below image to 20 random people on the street in Sydney or Brisbane and ask them to identify which team it is.
I guarantee more than 50% of responses will be "Collingwood".

View attachment 1114991

And how many of them will end up purchasing an AFL membership?

Collingwood's stripes are a lot different to Port's prison bars.

And if you feel that more than 50% answer Collingwood then Eddie needs to change the view that Collingwood's jumper is the most iconic in Australia.

 

[bomberclifford]

Port Adelaide: "Collingwood and the AFL are being petty and unfair."

Also Port Adelaide: "Hey, Gold Coast, we forbid you to wear red."

We asked them not to but they ended up wearing red anyway. We moved on.

See the difference?

 

[bomberclifford]

And if you feel that more than 50% answer Collingwood then Eddie needs to change the view that Collingwood's jumper is the most iconic in Australia.

Haha! Brilliant.

 

[bomberclifford]

I just don't understand how Collingwood is at fault at all or being treated like the 'bad guys' in this situation. We are well within our rights to hold Port to their contract they agreed to when they entered AFL. That's pretty much the bottom line of this debate, for me anyway.

The fact that Eddie has allowed Port to wear it as much times as they have in their AFL history is actually pretty generous I feel. It's quite clear to me that Collingwood have been happy to allow Port to wear the PB in a Heritage setting, even rare occasions where there is no heritage (Elimination Final 2014). So to paint Collingwood as the antagonists in this story is just bad-faith.

Now I don't agree with the AFL's decision to deny Port's request to wear the PB for Showdown, because I feel this is one of those cases were it is Heritage related. But it's just that, the AFL's decision. And there's no Eddie anymore for people to pin the blame on.

The reason I don't interact with this thread as much as I'd like to is because it really gets nowhere. Port supporters are passionate about their club and its history, Collingwood supports are just as passionate about their club and history too which is why this otherwise trivial debate is bigger than it is.

I agree with your point.

My hunch/hope is that next year our respective clubs can sit at the table and work out a deal that satisfies both clubs.