Discussion Prison Bars debate

Should Port be allowed to wear the PBs as their home jumper?


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Smartys Power

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And you did in your 150th year celebration instead of your jumper from 150 years ago, so why not move on to another one?

In 20 years when you’ve celebrated all your different jumpers you can come around to the prison bars again.

I don’t know why Port think they should get special treatment, you chose to join a league with a team who’d been wearing black and white stripes for 105 years and you were never going to get to wear your jumper you’d worn for about 75 years in the minor leagues.

There is no reason for that to change, Collingwood have already been generous enough letting you wear it as often as they did.
Because the prison bars is synonymous with Port Adelaide. People think Port Adelaide, they think prison bars. A majority of our history is in the prison bars. It’s really not hard to comprehend why we want this one over the others.
 

lionbear

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But does anyone think Geelong would have been happy if Port entered the AFL wanting to wear their original jumper???
Imitation is the best form of flattery.

If they want to, go for it.

We know who we are and they will never have the Geelong Logo on their heart
 

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Fizzler

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And you did in your 150th year celebration instead of your jumper from 150 years ago, so why not move on to another one?

In 20 years when you’ve celebrated all your different jumpers you can come around to the prison bars again.

I don’t know why Port think they should get special treatment, you chose to join a league with a team who’d been wearing black and white stripes for 105 years and you were never going to get to wear your jumper you’d worn for about 75 years in the minor leagues.

There is no reason for that to change, Collingwood have already been generous enough letting you wear it as often as they did.
A birthday is a celebration of someone's life, not of the day they were born. Same deal with a club commemorating an anniversary, it's about what a club has done in that time. Plenty of clubs have been founded, not many have made it to 150 years without folding/merging.
SANFL wasn't a minor league for a good chunk of the time Port was there either lol, there's a reason why the club has 3 championships of Australia. 5 appearances of the jumper in 25 years is not generous either given it'd be about double if your club's management and the spineless league we play in weren't so unreasonable. Your club shouldn't receive special treatment tbh like how they knew heritage round would be canned before signing the agreement when we didn't. Every football fan should be mad at how compromised the league is.
 

eddiesmith

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A birthday is a celebration of someone's life, not of the day they were born. Same deal with a club commemorating an anniversary, it's about what a club has done in that time. Plenty of clubs have been founded, not many have made it to 150 years without folding/merging.
SANFL wasn't a minor league for a good chunk of the time Port was there either lol, there's a reason why the club has 3 championships of Australia. 5 appearances of the jumper in 25 years is not generous either given it'd be about double if your club's management and the spineless league we play in weren't so unreasonable. Your club shouldn't receive special treatment tbh like how they knew heritage round would be canned before signing the agreement when we didn't. Every football fan should be mad at how compromised the league is.
Port also agreed not to sell the jumper and they did, so even if Heritage Round still existed Collingwood could easily have had it stopped anyway.
 

Liam Boy

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ou chose to join a league with a team who’d been wearing black and white stripes for 105 years and you were never going to get to wear your jumper you’d worn for about 75 years in the minor leagues.
this has always been an incredibly bad faith argument. for port adelaide to continue to play at the top level available in SA, as they had for over a century, the only choice was to join the former VFL. this is because of decisions made by the VFL to pull the rug out from under the SANFL and WAFL and supersede them in their own states. Maybe Collingwood should've opposed that if they didn't want this scenario to come about, but I'm sure they wouldn't have because the expansion saved them from financial ruin. Maybe it's time for someone else to compromise, Port have done enough.
 

From The Pocket

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The Saints were pinged in 1909 for playing a player without a clearance.
That’s the only time in VFL/AFL history.

In the NSWRL/ARL/NRL there have been 12 points deductions post-match, all resulting from either illegal substitutions, playing fourteen men, or salary cap breaches. There was also five forfeits and a no-contest in Round 1 1996 due to the (soon to be) Super League teams protesting.

The closest I can think of that involves uniforms is an American College football team conceding a penalty before kickoff for wearing the wrong uniforms.
Now I remember the SANFL taking points away from North Adelaide for accidentally playing 19 players after 3 quarter time in a preliminary final in 2018, they won the game by 5 points went on to win the premiership but started the next season 4 points (or 2 wins in SANFL) behind.
 

BringBackTheAnchor

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Now I remember the SANFL taking points away from North Adelaide for accidentally playing 19 players after 3 quarter time in a preliminary final in 2018, they won the game by 5 points went on to win the premiership but started the next season 4 points (or 2 wins in SANFL) behind.
On an unrelated note I believe there’s some sanfl rule that means if there are more than 18 on the field the team looses all points.
 

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El_Scorcho

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Port also agreed not to sell the jumper and they did, so even if Heritage Round still existed Collingwood could easily have had it stopped anyway.
We were also told we'd be able to wear the guernsey every year. Doesn't it suck when the other side doesn't hold up their end of the bargain?

No one is stopping Port Adelaide celebrating their history, they are free to wear any of their other jumpers they wore before they wanted to be like Collingwood. No other club wears pink, if Port wanted to celebrate their rich history there would be no opposition to it!

But does anyone think Geelong would have been happy if Port entered the AFL wanting to wear their original jumper???
You don't seem to have a firm grasp of what heritage means to a football club and i'm sure you're embarrassing the group of Collingwood supporting regulars on this board who do.
 

El_Scorcho

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I just don't understand how Collingwood is at fault at all or being treated like the 'bad guys' in this situation. We are well within our rights to hold Port to their contract they agreed to when they entered AFL. That's pretty much the bottom line of this debate, for me anyway.

The fact that Eddie has allowed Port to wear it as much times as they have in their AFL history is actually pretty generous I feel. It's quite clear to me that Collingwood have been happy to allow Port to wear the PB in a Heritage setting, even rare occasions where there is no heritage (Elimination Final 2014). So to paint Collingwood as the antagonists in this story is just bad-faith.

Now I don't agree with the AFL's decision to deny Port's request to wear the PB for Showdown, because I feel this is one of those cases were it is Heritage related. But it's just that, the AFL's decision. And there's no Eddie anymore for people to pin the blame on.

The reason I don't interact with this thread as much as I'd like to is because it really gets nowhere. Port supporters are passionate about their club and its history, Collingwood supports are just as passionate about their club and history too which is why this otherwise trivial debate is bigger than it is.
I repeatedly have to stop myself from having a crack at Collingwood when I get fired up in this debate because ultimately I know plenty of Collingwood supporters who have no issues with us wearing our guernsey and stooping to the level of Collingwood bashing is cheap and unneccessary facebookesque garbage. This board especially is almost always free from partisan football support and it's a great board because of it. Where else do Port and Crows supporters co-exist so harmoniously. It's one of the great things about this board.

You're right that it's the AFL's decision and you're right that it's Collingwood's right to defend their brand. If the situation was reversed, i'd expect Port to defend their brand and i'd expect the league to do what's best for the game overall, as is their job. Ultimately, what's good for the game is engaged fans, and nothing engages fans like celebrating the history of their club (apart from winning).

Ultimately in the long term, Port will get what they want in this debate, because we want it more. That's not to say that we care about our guernsey more than Collingwood, not at all. It's that we care more about wearing our guernsey than Collingwood do about stopping us from wearing it.
 

Apples

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Let's get a few facts straight regarding the Port prison bars. The current AFL iteration of Port Adelaide Power has no claim whatsoever on black and white stripes or the magpie logo.

When Port entered the competition in 1997, it was provisional upon them agreeing to forfeit all claims to black and white stripes and the magpie logo. That should be the end of the argument. I do understand the history of Port Adelaide and why Port fans would like the team to wear the stripes and adopt the magpie logo, but the deal was agreed to by Port Power's leaders and the AFL. Collingwood was adamant that Port could not wear black and white stripes, the AFL agreed and Port signed off. That's it.

Regardless of later deals between Port and Collingwood for Heritage Round, where Collingwood obliged Port's request, the original deal and contract must stand. Tim Lane's thinly disguised Collingwood hate on Friday night on 3AW, suggested that Port being the only new club that came into the AFL from an existing entity, should be able to wear black and white stripes. I suspect Tim would would do an about face if Carlton's beloved jumper were challenged in the same way.

David Koch and the current PA leadership is being disingenuous in trying to bully Collingwood and the AFL into submission. As far as I'm concerned, Port has no legal right to the stripes or the magpies and Koch and Co are winding up their supporter base in order to get its own way.

Collingwood agreed to allow Port to wear the stripes once a year for Heritage Round. All good. Then Port requested to wear the stripes for their 150 Anniversary. Collingwood complied. All good.

Because the Heritage Round no longer exists, Port now asks for permission to wear the stripes twice a year for Showdowns. This would be the thin edge of the wedge. What's next? Port plays a home final and thinks it deserves the right to wear the stripes? Port makes the grand final and makes a request? Where does it end? The supporters have already embraced the stripes and magpie and it is seen Port merchandise at every game.

Port and Koch have offered up plenty of rhetoric and emotional clap trap, but precious little objective evidence for their ongoing, tedious campaign.
They have undermined the rules regarding the colours and logo at every opportunity. The coaching panel wears colours that might as well be Collingwood's. It's all black with a PA logo, white stripes and a scintilla of teal. It is taking every opportunity to get its own way and undermine Collingwood and the AFL's trademark.

Port currently has a fantastic official jumper. They won an AFL premiership wearing teal, black and white. It's one of the better guernseys in the league. Instead of embracing their colours, Koch and Co hark back to the past and embolden their supporters in an unwinnable quest.

As a compromise, perhaps Collingwood could agree to allowing Port to wear the stripes in one Showdown per year. Either that, or perhaps Collingwood could offer up this alternative prison bar design.

Port Design.png
 

Bwillow11

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Let's get a few facts straight regarding the Port prison bars. The current AFL iteration of Port Adelaide Power has no claim whatsoever on black and white stripes or the magpie logo.

When Port entered the competition in 1997, it was provisional upon them agreeing to forfeit all claims to black and white stripes and the magpie logo. That should be the end of the argument. I do understand the history of Port Adelaide and why Port fans would like the team to wear the stripes and adopt the magpie logo, but the deal was agreed to by Port Power's leaders and the AFL. Collingwood was adamant that Port could not wear black and white stripes, the AFL agreed and Port signed off. That's it.

Regardless of later deals between Port and Collingwood for Heritage Round, where Collingwood obliged Port's request, the original deal and contract must stand. Tim Lane's thinly disguised Collingwood hate on Friday night on 3AW, suggested that Port being the only new club that came into the AFL from an existing entity, should be able to wear black and white stripes. I suspect Tim would would do an about face if Carlton's beloved jumper were challenged in the same way.

David Koch and the current PA leadership is being disingenuous in trying to bully Collingwood and the AFL into submission. As far as I'm concerned, Port has no legal right to the stripes or the magpies and Koch and Co are winding up their supporter base in order to get its own way.

Collingwood agreed to allow Port to wear the stripes once a year for Heritage Round. All good. Then Port requested to wear the stripes for their 150 Anniversary. Collingwood complied. All good.

Because the Heritage Round no longer exists, Port now asks for permission to wear the stripes twice a year for Showdowns. This would be the thin edge of the wedge. What's next? Port plays a home final and thinks it deserves the right to wear the stripes? Port makes the grand final and makes a request? Where does it end? The supporters have already embraced the stripes and magpie and it is seen Port merchandise at every game.

Port and Koch have offered up plenty of rhetoric and emotional clap trap, but precious little objective evidence for their ongoing, tedious campaign.
They have undermined the rules regarding the colours and logo at every opportunity. The coaching panel wears colours that might as well be Collingwood's. It's all black with a PA logo, white stripes and a scintilla of teal. It is taking every opportunity to get its own way and undermine Collingwood and the AFL's trademark.

Port currently has a fantastic official jumper. They won an AFL premiership wearing teal, black and white. It's one of the better guernseys in the league. Instead of embracing their colours, Koch and Co hark back to the past and embolden their supporters in an unwinnable quest.

As a compromise, perhaps Collingwood could agree to allowing Port to wear the stripes in one Showdown per year. Either that, or perhaps Collingwood could offer up this alternative prison bar design.

View attachment 1117548
Get your fists ready, you’ve just started a massive fight
 

Zac_Barker

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Jan 14, 2020
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We dont want to wear black and white stripes, we want to wear the prison bar guernsey.
Theres a difference.
I mean they’re quite similar Considering the prison bars are just white striped (like Collingwood) but they just added a a white horizontal stripe on the top of the ‘prison bars’
 

Red Crow

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When Port entered the competition in 1997, it was provisional upon them agreeing to forfeit all claims to black and white stripes and the magpie logo. That should be the end of the argument.
When most non-Vic clubs entered the comp, they agreed to the possibility of playing home finals at the MCG too. That was the rules in place. However over time, it was rightly conceded that it was unjust and the rules were changed.

Agreements made under conditions of the time don’t need to last forever and a day ‘just because’. Times change. Port’s been in the comp 25 years now and obviously feel the time for a reasoned, mature discussion on this topic is well and truly here. Unfortunately the AFL would rather stick their head in the sand and hope it just goes away.
 

Apples

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When most non-Vic clubs entered the comp, they agreed to the possibility of playing home finals at the MCG too. That was the rules in place. However over time, it was rightly conceded that it was unjust and the rules were changed.

Agreements made under conditions of the time don’t need to last forever and a day ‘just because’. Times change. Port’s been in the comp 25 years now and obviously feel the time for a reasoned, mature discussion on this topic is well and truly here. Unfortunately the AFL would rather stick their head in the sand and hope it just goes away.
There is no logical reason for the agreement to be changed. The agreement was a basis for Port entering the competition. It had to be a new entity. It was Port Power - nothing to do with Port Adelaide Magpies. I know that changed and the two clubs merges later, but only one party here is attempting to wind back the clock. It's the thin edge of the wedge by Port:
- it wants to wear black and white stripes twice a year
- it has already changed its staff uniform to be black and white
- fan merchandie featuring the magpie logo is already produced
- once it has two games a year wearing the prison bars, it will agitate for more, as in big occasion games.
- obviously Port has an agenda and it cannot be trusted

Port has broken every promise/agreement/undertaking in this matter. It is so used to being the big fish in the small pond, able to bully its opponents into submission, that it now feels it can bully Collingwood and the AFL.

I reckon we and the AFL should offer a compromise and allow one Showdown (home) game per year for Port's black and white stripes. That should end the matter.
 

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