Secondary "Private Schools Moral Failings" - Interesting article.
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- Aug 1, 2002
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This article can be summed up as follows: "I went to an elite private school, I am a PhD candidate and I am filled with self loathing"
- Aug 1, 2002
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I bet you she did not live in a Fibro house in Brunswick - this is classic credibility grasping common in Gen Y lefties brought up on identity politics . Shane Maloney has a much more cogent analysis as a public school kid.
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I may be biased but CBC Freo where I went was not like that - the psychotic brothers would have bashed a kid that gloated about being rich.
- Apr 2, 2012
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Interesting read. Have a couple of girl cousins who go to a Sydney private school and they too reckon that Ja'ime is more real than fiction. Whenever I visit all they can talk about is how bitchy everyone is to each other at school which I'm sure they get involved in too. I don't even think it's as much a divide between rich and poor but even the middle class. My relos are around middle-income; get by okay but struggle occasionally, and even they seem to be on the outer a bit. Even at uni I see the same stuff now. Whenever I do group work, and even at a party a couple of weeks ago, everyone asks what school you went to. Being from the country they have NFI what my school is but they can all relate to each other through their city school networks.
That said I'm not sure that it's so much the schools fault for creating this sort of classism/attitude in the students but rather the parents at home or the kids themselves.
EDIT: I also find it odd that they disassociate academic results from private schools yet relate them to home environment/socio-economic status. Richer families will tend to send kids to private schools and given the outlay will often be harder on their kids to perform (and generally have a more stable home environment). While it may not always be true that expensive school = better marks I think when you look at the characteristics of families with children in private schools they tend to fit within the mid-high socio-economic range and be reasonably sorted at home.
That said I'm not sure that it's so much the schools fault for creating this sort of classism/attitude in the students but rather the parents at home or the kids themselves.
EDIT: I also find it odd that they disassociate academic results from private schools yet relate them to home environment/socio-economic status. Richer families will tend to send kids to private schools and given the outlay will often be harder on their kids to perform (and generally have a more stable home environment). While it may not always be true that expensive school = better marks I think when you look at the characteristics of families with children in private schools they tend to fit within the mid-high socio-economic range and be reasonably sorted at home.
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I think that article is complete bollocks. teenage girls are notoriously insecure and she was, IMO, placing her insecurity in the fact that she was poorer than her peers. the rich girls are just as insecure. If she wasn't worrying about being poorer it would be her looks, if not that it would be her intelligence, or her personality. my point is, she'd have found something to be ashamed and insecure about no matter what.
citing brain-dead B-grade comedy like Ja'mie is pretty embarrassing IMO.
citing brain-dead B-grade comedy like Ja'mie is pretty embarrassing IMO.
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- Sep 5, 2011
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For some its really not a waste - particularly those who are struggling in the public system and falling behind. The good private schools identify these weaknesses, and ensure the stragglers have a chance to catch up - whilst this can happen in public schools, my experience is that the larger class sizes make it less likely to happen.
El Dubya
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Totally disagree. I worked on placement in a private school and the class sizes were larger than the public schools I've been in. It's all the extras that help bring out the best in a student. Extra staff, extra excursions, extra resources for engagement, and more often than not parents who care about education and place a premium on their children's results. The culture of an elite private school is worth paying for if you have an academic child.
- Sep 5, 2011
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I guess my scenario was specific to my experience. I went to a school with a cap of 18 students in all classes, 15 students in VCE classes (this was some time ago now). The class sizes made a big difference to my brothers experience. He had learning difficulties, and wasnt getting the right attention in the public system.
- Oct 29, 2012
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Ummm from my experience going to both public and private, the class sizes were a lot smaller at the public school, and the facilities were much better. Not to mention that the standard of education seemed to be better at the public school, with more care given to both the gifted and special needs students. I don't have to worry about this stuff for quite a while as I don't have any kids of my own, but I think that it may be better to spend the extra money on one-on-one private tutoring. From what I hear, most public schools also have a greater selection of subjects, so your child can choose subjects that they are better suited to, and there is less pressure to choose subjects that "scale well" and as such make the student do worse. Of course, I don't work in the industry, and this is all anecdotal, so it probably doesn't mean much.
I believe that the difference in culture could be either a good or a bad thing, depending on the child's personality. If he/she is less intrinsically motivated, then private schools would be beneficial. However if the child is motivated to do well anyway, but becomes stressed easily, then the competitive environment of private schooling could become a major disadvantage.
One area where I think private schools shine is if your child wants a non academic career. If your kid is good at music/sport/etc, the extracurricular activities provided were much stronger in the private school that I attended.
El Dubya
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I've had a really mixed experience. I did my placement at an outer suburbs school in Melbourne and an elite all boys private school in Melbourne. I then moved out to the country to work at a seriously low socio economic school, where generational poverty, violence and drugs are all serious issues, as well as having a large indigenous population. I've just found out that next year I'll be going back to Melbourne and working in an elite private school. On top of all that it wasn't long ago that I finished VCE at an inner city public school.
The outer suburbs school I was placed at tried to cater for everyone, and didn't really do anything special. There were a lot of teachers who had given up, or were comfortable in their station, knowing at that point in their careers it was difficult for them to lose their jobs. While there were some very good teachers there, the quality of teaching and learning was poor overall.
At my current rural school there is a huge focus on health, wellbeing and welfare, often to the detriment of learning. We have more staff meetings and put more effort into the bottom 5% of our students than we do the top 50%. Those aren't arbitrary figures either, that's something the school identified as an issue and has been monitoring. Unlike the outer suburbs school the care factor in all the staff is huge, and it has to be otherwise you wouldn't survive. However there are lots of things I believe are wrong with the school. The school policy is to not have students stay down a year and never expel anyone. That means that in one of my year 8 classes I have students who are assessed at a year 9 level for literacy in the same group as students assessed at grade 3. Guess who demands most of the attention? I find it really demoralising that I can't give these "high achievers" the attention they deserve. If I were a parent there is no way I would send my child to my current school. The focus on welfare is helpful, but it has also led to a large number of students who feel entitled to drop whatever they should be doing and storm out of class when something bad happens to them. Our overt focus on welfare has taken priority over academics, and we have coddled many students so much they have absolutely no resilience. There are many I feel won't be prepared for university, TAFE or the working world because they cannot take any criticism.
The private school I was placed at balanced welfare, co curricular activities and academics really well. They produced really well rounded boys, because they created a happy and welcoming learning environment, while still emphasising the academic and co curricular expectations of the school. It helped that the school and it's demographic lent itself to that culture of success and support, but the influence of the principal was astounding. If I had a son I would without hesitation send them to that school, because unlike some private schools it wasn't overly competitive, but it still had a success driven culture. The principal of that school also mentored the principal of my new school, and sent his daughters there, so I am hoping to find a similar environment when i begin in January.
This post has become a bit of a ramble, and at the end of the day I think it's really important that no one is made to feel guilty about the choices they make for their children. I think some students are better suited to some schools than others and there is no definitive "best school" or best type of school for everyone.
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If you understood the success rate of kids who go to (good) private schools and you had the money available then you may reconsider.
The top private schools are breeding grounds for successful people. And elitism.
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Are you one of the unsuccessful ones or did you not go to an elite private school and therefore don't know what you're talking about?
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That is the downside but if you aren't an elitist and a good parent there's no reason why you can't avoid them growing up like elitist entitled twats.
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- #23
Career and/or money.
Hapiness and contentment and relationships etc aren't really measures of success.
So tell me first, did you go to one of the elite private schools? Caulfield, Scots etc?
- Oct 29, 2012
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OMFG seriously?
And I say this as somebody that you would define as "successful". Outside of my chosen career path (which I absolutely love) I am not happy AT ALL. I certainly wouldn't consider my life a success.
