The Law Privately Owned Prisons

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Demonic Ascent

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The biggest cover ups take place via the state. See thousands of people being killed by incompetence at the hands of the NHS. Good thing there was no profit motive there.

The state typically can't run anything competently. Why would one think that the prison system be any better?

If SERCO or G4S etc stuff something up, they can have their contracts taken off them / be financially penalised.

Stuff ups by the state go unpunished. Zero incentive to perform.
State institutions can suffer from prohibitive bureaucracy, private institutions always suffer from corruption. It's the nature of the beast and I would rather well-meaning people having to deal with red-tape than people deliberately trying to manipulate things so they can receive a financial reward. The "free market" and trickle down economics have been proven to not work and were sold to a deluded/ignorant public by those who profit from the manipulated market.
 

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DivideandMultiply

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Not enough kudos to Serco ITT. Their internal inquiry recently ruled that none of their staff are to blame for the repeated escapes of prisoners from their custody all over Perth.
But...but... the private sector is always more efficient and competent than the public sector.

I can't believe these jokers will be running the Fiona Stanley hospital, how many backhanders to Col and mates did that require?
 

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TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
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I dont understand Private prisons.... the Tax payer still pays.. for the prison but there is added cost of the profit for the private company...
The formula is relatively simple:
- are there cost savings exceed that result in a net benefit
- are there opportunities to break "strong" and dysfunctional workplace cultures such as prisoner brutality
- are the opportunities to improve customer service experience (prisoners) specifically in rehabilitation, education and or health
- are there opportunities to increase better governance by separating the operations from the regulator. Thus reducing the risk of cover ups, such as prison guard brutality?

My gut feel is, absolutely in just about every government department.

That doesn't mean there is no room for government input or even government competition against private enterprise. After all competition results in innovation.
 

Snake_Baker

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The formula is relatively simple:
- are there cost savings exceed that result in a net benefit
- are there opportunities to break "strong" and dysfunctional workplace cultures such as prisoner brutality
- are the opportunities to improve customer service experience (prisoners) specifically in rehabilitation, education and or health
- are there opportunities to increase better governance by separating the operations from the regulator. Thus reducing the risk of cover ups, such as prison guard brutality?

My gut feel is, absolutely in just about every government department.

That doesn't mean there is no room for government input or even government competition against private enterprise. After all competition results in innovation.

Private prisons are a disgrace that are run by a calculator.

Government prisons are also ruled by a calculator, but to a lesser extent. They are not quite as bad as private prisons.

Private prisons exist to keep government prison expenditure in check.

The projected image of prisons by corrections departments is a flat out lie, but folks don't really care anyway. The censorship regarding what actually goes on inside is extreme.
 

Marcel Proust

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Private prisons are a disgrace that are run by a calculator.

Government prisons are also ruled by a calculator, but to a lesser extent. They are not quite as bad as private prisons.

Private prisons exist to keep government prison expenditure in check.

The projected image of prisons by corrections departments is a flat out lie, but folks don't really care anyway. The censorship regarding what actually goes on inside is extreme.
Fairly obvious they profit from targeting minorities doing light crime.

Ie. Blacks usa ganja
 

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TheBrownDog
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Private prisons are a disgrace that are run by a calculator.

Government prisons are also ruled by a calculator, but to a lesser extent. They are not quite as bad as private prisons.

Private prisons exist to keep government prison expenditure in check.

The projected image of prisons by corrections departments is a flat out lie, but folks don't really care anyway. The censorship regarding what actually goes on inside is extreme.
This is the issue of bad governance rather than bad operators.

If government can't write a contract and or align the interests of the operator to performance outcomes, then how can we expect government to run a prison?


In my personal opinion, 99% of people in prison are decent people who have a number of life challenges. Mental health, drug dependence, inability to control emotions and simply dumb. Only 1% are probably hardcore criminals with no hope.

Despite this, we aren't hard enough on the 1% and nor are we focused enough on the needs of the 99%.

Outdoor work camps on farms would probably serve most prisoners better than jails. This would cost more but it has the added benefit of normalising life after prison life. Further work for the dole would be a seamless transition post jail, until they find real work opportunities. Participation in society is so important for normalisation.
 

Snake_Baker

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This is the issue of bad governance rather than bad operators.

If government can't write a contract and or align the interests of the operator to performance outcomes, then how can we expect government to run a prison?


In my personal opinion, 99% of people in prison are decent people who have a number of life challenges. Mental health, drug dependence, inability to control emotions and simply dumb. Only 1% are probably hardcore criminals with no hope.

Despite this, we aren't hard enough on the 1% and nor are we focused enough on the needs of the 99%.

Outdoor work camps on farms would probably serve most prisoners better than jails. This would cost more but it has the added benefit of normalising life after prison life. Further work for the dole would be a seamless transition post jail, until they find real work opportunities. Participation in society is so important for normalisation.
,

Private prisons are wide open to siphoning government money towards shareholders. In fact it's inevitable.

Take Fulham Prison in Sale, Victoria for example. This lot were so cheap and profit driven that they hired a white collar criminal ($10 a day) to work on their accountancy books, except this bloke also found $150,000 in government funds allocated for roof guttering siphoned away to the operators accounts. No roof guttering works were undertaken. When he got out he reported the operators and heads were kicked.

Places like Fulham also put a handbrake on prisoner programs which are required to be undertaken in order for a prisoner to be eligible for parole. The outcome being that the more backlogged the system gets with prisoners who are not eligible for parole (through no fault of their own), the higher the numbers remain in the prison population, and more & more finances to house these prisoners are funnelled through to the private prison operators.

The entire corporate prison setup is one big corrupt racket at the taxpayers expense.
 

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TheBrownDog
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,

Private prisons are wide open to siphoning government money towards shareholders. In fact it's inevitable.

Take Fulham Prison in Sale, Victoria for example. This lot were so cheap and profit driven that they hired a white collar criminal ($10 a day) to work on their accountancy books, except this bloke also found $150,000 in government funds allocated for roof guttering siphoned away to the operators accounts. No roof guttering works were undertaken. When he got out he reported the operators and heads were kicked.

Places like Fulham also put a handbrake on prisoner programs which are required to be undertaken in order for a prisoner to be eligible for parole. The outcome being that the more backlogged the system gets with prisoners who are not eligible for parole (through no fault of their own), the higher the numbers remain in the prison population, and more & more finances to house these prisoners are funnelled through to the private prison operators.

The entire corporate prison setup is one big corrupt racket at the taxpayers expense.
fraud happens in public and private, that's why they should be audited and walk through of fixed assets, maintenance and inventory is required. FTR I saw the fraud at Freo port (public) in circa 2000 and reported the issue that nothing reconciled. However the government only acted in 2020. Both examples only reinforce that the need to separate operations and governance is necessary.

In regards to the second item, that is why government contracts need to be drafted marrying KPIs and deliverables. If a government can't write a contract, they can't be trusted operating a prison.
 

Snake_Baker

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fraud happens in public and private, that's why they should be audited and walk through of fixed assets, maintenance and inventory is required. FTR I saw the fraud at Freo port (public) in circa 2000 and reported the issue that nothing reconciled. However the government only acted in 2020. Both examples only reinforce that the need to separate operations and governance is necessary.

In regards to the second item, that is why government contracts need to be drafted marrying KPIs and deliverables. If a government can't write a contract, they can't be trusted operating a prison.

Denying someone's right to freedom in order to obtain profits is a whole other level of corruption mate.
 

Christopher Buttersnip

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Not enough kudos to Serco ITT. Their internal inquiry recently ruled that none of their staff are to blame for the repeated escapes of prisoners from their custody all over Perth.
Their "internal review" LOL

Know someone who worked for them. Not on the prison side. Couldn't get out quick enough.

The view private enterprise does it better is a con perpetrated by the conservatives who a working for their base.
 

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TheBrownDog
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After the war one third of my family fled to the US, one third Australia and one third stayed in Czech and Slovak Republics. It should be noted they didn't flee from the war, rather they fled the utopia of socialism.

65 years on it is interesting to hear from the different generations of the family their story and experiences.

By far the most horrific life was under a regime that declared everyone equal, with the state providing all their needs. Anyone advocating this utopia should speak to people who actually lived in it. Imagine lining up for 8 hours outdoors in winter only to find you missed out on your quota as stock ran out.

We live in such luxury in the west where products wait on the shelf for customers and it is hard to fathom under socialism it is more often than not the other way around.


There is no argument the nordic nations are successful but what the lefties don't appreciate is the culture of nordic nations is conservative and hard working. This culture may not be a suitable place for shirkers.

I ask one simple question to anyone advocating socialism "does your family invite your grandparents over for dinner every night (not that they have to accept)? Does the highest earner pay for dinner? Do the kids do the housework for the grandparents and highest earner? Do parents and grandparents read to the young children and help the kids with their homework?"

If no to these questions or similar concepts, why should the a government provide a social framework that is not synergistic to family values?
 

Gethelred

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After the war one third of my family fled to the US, one third Australia and one third stayed in Czech and Slovak Republics. It should be noted they didn't flee from the war, rather they fled the utopia of socialism.

65 years on it is interesting to hear from the different generations of the family their story and experiences.

By far the most horrific life was under a regime that declared everyone equal, with the state providing all their needs. Anyone advocating this utopia should speak to people who actually lived in it. Imagine lining up for 8 hours outdoors in winter only to find you missed out on your quota as stock ran out.

We live in such luxury in the west where products wait on the shelf for customers and it is hard to fathom under socialism it is more often than not the other way around.


There is no argument the nordic nations are successful but what the lefties don't appreciate is the culture of nordic nations is conservative and hard working. This culture may not be a suitable place for shirkers.

I ask one simple question to anyone advocating socialism "does your family invite your grandparents over for dinner every night (not that they have to accept)? Does the highest earner pay for dinner? Do the kids do the housework for the grandparents and highest earner? Do parents and grandparents read to the young children and help the kids with their homework?"

If no to these questions or similar concepts, why should the a government provide a social framework that is not synergistic to family values?
1) Geography interfered with my family's ability to assist each other's coexistence in my youth, and I'm yet to have kids myself. Suffice to say, if my siblings need my help in those ways, I will be available insofar as geography and/or internet infrastructure permits.

2) It is a false equivalence to equate a family with a government, whether you're referring to economics or social matters.
 

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TheBrownDog
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1) Geography interfered with my family's ability to assist each other's coexistence in my youth, and I'm yet to have kids myself. Suffice to say, if my siblings need my help in those ways, I will be available insofar as geography and/or internet infrastructure permits.

2) It is a false equivalence to equate a family with a government, whether you're referring to economics or social matters.
No it is not a false equivalence.

For socialism to work, you need a no excuses mentality for it to succeed. If one can't make it work from a family level, one can't possibly expect it to succeed at a village level. If villages can't make it work, then it doesn't work at a canton level and so forth until one reaches the sovereign.

Socialism only works from a bottom up. A top down approach leads to repression.
 

Gethelred

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No it is not a false equivalence.

For socialism to work, you need a no excuses mentality for it to succeed. If one can't make it work from a family level, one can't possibly expect it to succeed at a village level. If villages can't make it work, then it doesn't work at a canton level and so forth until one reaches the sovereign.

Socialism only works from a bottom up. A top down approach leads to repression.
It is absolutely a false equivalence. A family has restrictions a government does not possess; geography offers small difficulty to a government, where it can represent an impassible barrier to a family. A government operates on a potentially infinite timeline, where a family operates on 2-3 generations at best unless said family has sufficient wealth to make membership worthwhile. A family has greater financial freedom than individuals, but significantly less than a government does. A familial group can have barely any educational or professional capacity for their aid to be useful, where a government can and does possess education professionals and experts in each and every field.

The rest of your post is based on that false equivalence.
 

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TheBrownDog
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It is absolutely a false equivalence. A family has restrictions a government does not possess; geography offers small difficulty to a government, where it can represent an impassible barrier to a family. A government operates on a potentially infinite timeline, where a family operates on 2-3 generations at best unless said family has sufficient wealth to make membership worthwhile. A family has greater financial freedom than individuals, but significantly less than a government does. A familial group can have barely any educational or professional capacity for their aid to be useful, where a government can and does possess education professionals and experts in each and every field.

The rest of your post is based on that false equivalence.
yes yes.....it's all too hard to take responsibility for oneself, one's own family and one's community

let the government do it! that way we can blame them!

how did relying upon our government work out for indigenous Australians? They stole their land and even their children. how did the government protect asian workers under our colonies? we federated on the pressure of unions and their hatred of yellow peril, enshrining racism in law and our constitution.

Leaving responsibility to others and government is accepting failure.
 

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