Society & Culture Problem gamblers

[fairdinkum]

Its like getting diagnosed with cancer but the mother of the victim disputes the diagnosis because she knows the victim better than the doctor

Nice analogy... except for the fact that doctors tend to, y'know, actually meet patients (and run tests on them and so forth) before giving their diagnosis. All you know about the guy in question is what I have posted about him on this site.

Try again.

 

[JuddsABlue]

Nice analogy... except for the fact that doctors tend to, y'know, actually meet patients (and run tests on them and so forth) before giving their diagnosis. All you know about the guy in question is what I have posted about him on this site.

Try again.

Nice analogy... except for the fact that doctors tend to, y'know, actually meet patients (and run tests on them and so forth) before giving their diagnosis. All you know about the guy in question is what I have posted about him on this site.

Try again.

You've given us all the info we need to understand his gambling

We know his income, what he spends and how he acts about the punt

None of those factors point towards a problem gambler

I've been gambling for 6 years and for 5 and a half of those I've been gambling bigger than you're mate. I have mates who gamble bigger than you're mate who aren't problem gamblers

I've seen every type of gambler. The ones who bet their last $20 instead of buying food and the ones that drop 10k without making a sweat. I've seen countless mug Punters who lose $100 a week because it's a nice round figure and they enjoy the punt

You're getting more obnoxious the more experienced gamblers tell you you're friend is ok. I know you're type, you want to be upset at your for gambling for no reason, you just don't do it so you don't understand it so you don't like it

 

[half_back_flank]

You seem to have made your mind up about him before this thread, despite your obvious lack of knowledge on the subject.

He admits that every now and then he will put a bigger bet on (such as this weekend) and is sketchy about how often he will go over his '$100 losses per week' limit he has set himself. I believe he is losing closer to $10k/year. Perhaps more.

Explain this please, if you knew anything about basic maths you'd realise pretty quickly this is woefully inaccurate. He isn't going to lose every week, a fair portion of the year he will have weeks where he'll break even or even (gasp!) come out on top.

It isn't even basic maths, it's basic common sense.

 

[fairdinkum]

JuddsABlue: You have gotten me wrong. I am no anti-gambling type. Apart from pokies (which I am happy to see curbed) I have nothing against gambling. I once spent an entire night at Crown on the poker tables. Literally there until about 7am (IIRC) when I had to leave to pick somebody up from the airport. If you had followed my posting on this board and others you would see that I am the opposite of those people who 'want to be upset'.

You and I disagree on whether or not the guy in the OP has a problem. That's cool. It is okay for people to disagree on things sometimes.

half_back_flank: You are an idiot.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Yeah, that's a fair enough reply. Had I known how much random peeps on the net would second guess my analysis of the guy in question (who I know IRL), I would have given more info.

He is 28. No assets. Much debt (five figures). Punts every night ('mug tennis' on weekdays, football codes on weekends). Loves the chatrooms on betfair (I don't use betfair so I am assuming he means chatrooms when he talks about 'online chat' - I dunno). Talks about punting every single day.

If, to you guys, his losses don't classify him as a problem gambler, then that's fine by me. I feel truly sorry for the guys you know who are worse than my workmate. For me, this guy has a serious problem. Worse than my drinking, really. At least I still study and stuff. This guy is wasting his life imo. Watevs.

The definition of a problem gambler is a harm- based one. Basically if there are negative consequences to one's gambling behaviour that affects not only the individual but others that are close to them or the community at large. From what you've described, your workmate is a problem gambler. The DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) classes "Pathological Gambling" as an impulse control disorder

A. Persistent and recurrent maladaptive gambling behaviour as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. is preoccupied with gambling (e.g. preoccupied with reliving past gambling experiences, handicapping or planning the next venture, or thinking of ways to get money with which to gamble)
2. needs to gamble with increasing amounts of money in order to achieve the desired excitement
3. has repeated unsuccessful efforts to control, cut back, or stop gambling
4. is restless or irritable when attempting to cut down or stop gambling
5. gambles as a way of escaping from problems or of relieving a dysphoric mood (e.g. feelings of helplessness, guilt, anxiety, depression)
6. after losing money gambling, often returns another day to get even (“chasing” one’s losses)
7. lies to family members, therapist, or others to conceal the extent of involvement with gambling
8. has committed illegal acts such as forgery, fraud, theft, or embezzlement to finance gambling
9. has jeopardized or lost a significant relationship, job, or educational or career opportunity because of gambling
10. relies on others to provide money to relieve a desperate financial situation caused by gambling

B. The gambling behaviour is not better accounted for by a Manic Episode.

 

[half_back_flank]

half_back_flank: You are an idiot.

On the contrary you seem to be the one coming off as the halfwit. Prove me wrong or just shut up.

Explain this please, if you knew anything about basic maths you'd realise pretty quickly this is woefully inaccurate. He isn't going to lose every week, a fair portion of the year he will have weeks where he'll break even or even (gasp!) come out on top.

It isn't even basic maths, it's basic common sense.

 

[checkraiseulite]

From what you've described, your workmate is a problem gambler. The DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) classes "Pathological Gambling" as an impulse control disorder

Besides 1 how is he a problem gambler? To me, info given, he's definitely not a problem gambler under this scale.

- He doesn't chase losses
- He hasn't recognised it's a problem and unsuccessfully tried to quit
- He is is open with his workmates about his losses
- He hasn't borrowed money to gamble with (although he has existing debt)
- He hasn't committed crime/acts of dishonesty to appropriate gambling funds
- He hasn't jeopardised relationships through his gambling.

 

[fairdinkum]

Wrt points numbered:

2) He has tried to curb it (hence his '$100 losses/week limit' which I put in inverted commas for a reason).
6) Without going into detail, he has jeopardised at least one major relationship.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Besides 1 how is he a problem gambler? To me, info given, he's definitely not a problem gambler under this scale.

- He doesn't chase losses
- He hasn't recognised it's a problem and unsuccessfully tried to quit
- He is is open with his workmates about his losses
- He hasn't borrowed money to gamble with (although he has existing debt)
- He hasn't committed crime/acts of dishonesty to appropriate gambling funds
- He hasn't jeopardised relationships through his gambling.

Problem gambling exists on a continuum, with "pathological gambling" being at the extreme end. Remember that the diagnosis of "pathological gambling" is listed in the DSM IV, a psychiatric manual, therefore medically based. It really is lazy, as what they've done is basically used the criteria for drug use disorders and slapped the tag gambling onto it.

I posted that from the OPs description, he was a problem gambler, not a pathological gambler

Have you ever met one? Befriended or worked with one? Perhaps lived with one or even been related to one? There's bound to be a few problem gamblers on this very site reading this very post.

I had vaguely known one or two people over the years who were addicted to pokies but had never actually gotten to know personally a problem gambler until recently. Long story short, a bloke I work with burns through on average at least $100/week on the punt. Random tennis matches from around the world are his go during the week and then on weekends it is the major football codes which take his fancy.

He will get home from work, load up a streaming site, hit up betfair, and spend hours on the punt. Almost every night.

He hasn't given me the full details but I have good reason to believe he has burnt through five figures in the past couple of years alone. Even at work, the main thing he talks about is who he is punting on this weekend. He is a Suns fan and I am trying to talk him out of a bet he has had planned for months: five hunge on the Suns vs GWS.

The thing is he is a nice guy, easy to talk to (although a little shy at first until you break the ice), I've even had a few froffies with him after work. But I can tell this punting business is at best holding him back and at worst ruining his life.

Anybody here have any stories to share about people who were hooked on the punt? I'm not asking for strategies on how to 'help

I think the highlighted would point towards a possible issue, as well as the fact that a workmate has serious concerns

 

[poweredup]

If someone is spending $100 week on their model train hobby or buying video games or buying gadgets for their car, would that be a problem? And if a person spent all week reviewing their teams performance and talking about upcoming footy games, would this be problematic in your view?

How people choose to spend their money / time is their choice, it is only a problem when it impacts on others or impacts their relationships / work etc

And if the guy sets himself a limit and works within that, that itself says to me he is not a problem gambler as he has boundaries and sticks to them, it's when the person has difficulty sticking to their own boundaries that I would think it would be a problem.

 

[JuddsABlue]

I would like people to define 'impacting work' or 'impacting life'

For instance, the other week I chose not to socialise with my group of friends because I wanted to go to the football to watch Carlton. My friends arent Carlton supporters, they wanted to stay at home and have a get together for the night, so I didnt see them, they had their fun night without me. I had a fun night at the footy on my own, seeing Carlton win. Is football now getting in the way of my social life and becoming a problem? Should I stop following Carlton before I lose my friends?

Read the same sentance with 'I went to play some blackjack' instead of football and both sentances are treated extremely different despite being the same thing. I'm choosing something I enjoy over another thing I enjoy. We do this every day of our lives.

 

[Brad Goodman]

I would like people to define 'impacting work' or 'impacting life'

For instance, the other week I chose not to socialise with my group of friends because I wanted to go to the football to watch Carlton. My friends arent Carlton supporters, they wanted to stay at home and have a get together for the night, so I didnt see them, they had their fun night without me. I had a fun night at the footy on my own, seeing Carlton win. Is football now getting in the way of my social life and becoming a problem? Should I stop following Carlton before I lose my friends?

Read the same sentance with 'I went to play some blackjack' instead of football and both sentances are treated extremely different despite being the same thing. I'm choosing something I enjoy over another thing I enjoy. We do this every day of our lives.

Would you give up a night with mates to play blackjack?

 

[JuddsABlue]

Would you give up a night with mates to play blackjack?

It comes down to personal opinion. Just because someone doesnt think a certain hobby is appealing doesnt mean its stupid. There are plenty of people out there who would scoff at the idea of choosing a game of football over hanging out with friends for a night. Here on bigfooty where people love the game it seems normal. It probably seems more odd to miss a game of your team just to hang out with friends

What you just said proves my point, there is a stigma around gambling. Lots of people enjoy it as a hobby, and that doesnt make it any better or worse than other hobbys which all cost money.

 

[Brad Goodman]

I wouldn't put going to the footy and playing blackjack in the same basket. Footy is only available 22-25 times per year whereas you could play blackjack at any time.

 

[JuddsABlue]

I wouldn't put going to the footy and playing blackjack in the same basket. Footy is only available 22-25 times per year whereas you could play blackjack at any time.

Footy is an example because this is a footy board, but any hobby could be replaced. However with people working etc no blackjack is not available 24/7. Its available over weekends during you're spare time, preferably at night where you can have a few drinks and enjoy yourself.

If anyone does anything they enjoy over something else, people just shrug their shoulders and say 'yeah well he likes that stuff'. As soon as someone is gambling theyre ruining their lives and the people around them.

 

[Brad Goodman]

Footy is an example because this is a footy board, but any hobby could be replaced. However with people working etc no blackjack is not available 24/7. Its available over weekends during you're spare time, preferably at night where you can have a few drinks and enjoy yourself.

If anyone does anything they enjoy over something else, people just shrug their shoulders and say 'yeah well he likes that stuff'. As soon as someone is gambling theyre ruining their lives and the people around them.

Spose, although out of these three the footy looks a bit out of place:

1 "Can't hang out tonight guys, going to the footy."
2 "Can't hang out tonight guys, going to the casino."
3 "Can't hang out tonight guys, playing World of Warcraft."

 

[BEEG]

I dont often punt during the weekdays but will punt every weekend

I pay my Mortgage then mostly punt with the rest

Punt on Horses and AFL but will have a crack at most sports

Can not see myself not having a punt on a weekend guess you could call that a problem but i also know when to stop when i am on a bad run or just losing to much for that weekend i think i punt because i get board and its the only real thing i enjoy apart from the Pies

 

[grimface_87]

I really fail to see the attraction of the pokies. Why do people play them? Why do they spend so long playing them? I could not think of anything more boring

 

[garygee]

I could guarantee you if there wasn't legalised gambling on racing/sports there would be a huge amount of illegal gambling going on.This is because, as we see time and time again, there is huge demand for gambling here in Australia.

Actually I don't agree with you at all.
Actually I' old enough t6o remember when the TAB horsespunting and tattslotto Silver Balls were the only legal gambling,
There was only small amounts of illegal gambling.SP bookies and the like.

Legalised and regulated gambling actually decreases the risk of corruption/outcome fixing.

Is there some junk study you've taken this info from or is it your own view?

The industry definitely needs to take more responsibility

Can't argue with you there.

but it's unrealistic to think that it will disappear.

It's not really. The right legislation would bring the scumbags to heal.

Years ago I had an argument with a taxi driver who thought Crown was a good thing. He failed to see the irony in that he was the taxi driver and he was driving me home. He didn't own the cab permit and Crown was going to make him rich.
I've seen the emergence and growth of gambling in my lifetime and the demise of a lot of other businesses as the 'spare change' has been fed into the Pokie Machines and dried up.

 

[garygee]

I wouldn't consider $100 a week to be much of a problem, If you're only earning $100 or not much more then it's a problem

 

[checkraiseulite]

Actually I don't agree with you at all.
Actually I' old enough t6o remember when the TAB horsespunting and tattslotto Silver Balls were the only legal gambling,
There was only small amounts of illegal gambling.SP bookies and the like.


Is there some junk study you've taken this info from or is it your own view?


Can't argue with you there.


It's not really. The right legislation would bring the scumbags to heal.

Years ago I had an argument with a taxi driver who thought Crown was a good thing. He failed to see the irony in that he was the taxi driver and he was driving me home. He didn't own the cab permit and Crown was going to make him rich.
I've seen the emergence and growth of gambling in my lifetime and the demise of a lot of other businesses as the 'spare change' has been fed into the Pokie Machines and dried up.

I can't really be bothered arguing this as it's pretty clear you're not going to change your opinion, but prohibition on gambling is never going to happen, especially in Victoria/NSW.

Crown is definitely a good thing in Melbourne, it's the number 1 tourist attraction here in Victoria, pays a shitload of tax and employs a lot of people. The downside of that is some problem gamblers. A lot of failed/struggling small businesses offering undesirable/overpriced products & services look for anyone to blame but themselves imo.

It's the suburban pubs running 24hr pokies you need to be worried about.

 

[NarniMagic]

He is a Suns fan and I am trying to talk him out of a bet he has had planned for months: five hunge on the Suns vs GWS.

So did he go ahead with it? Would have got some nice winnings But in all seriousness, it's pretty ****ed up the way people can lose their lives over this kind of crap. The most punting I've ever done is 10 bucks on the Melbourne cup or 10 each way on someone brownlow night.

 

[Coledinho]

Ive had a gambling problem before. Lost about 200k+. Sounds like alot but to me it actually wasnt that much. My missus kind of said I think you should stop this, do this etc so I did. I still bet a few hundred here or there but not as much as I did. It was during a time when I was feeling pretty low, was very ill/lonely and had nothing to occupy my time. Lost a few 10k bets that werent too pleasant but I got over it.

Personally I didnt care as it took me a day and I got over it. It took my missus longer then a day to get over the fact I was in a shithouse mood. Thats when I knew it was time to stop

Fortunately I dont look back with too many regrets but I know people who do/have. Lost 200k to a business partner when he bailed and gambled a deposit I made to him. Had NO IDEA he gambled at the casino at all but apparantly he did. His extremely wealthy father refuses to pay me back too. Took him to court as he was part of the business plan/key backer but didnt win. That pissed me off majorly/effected me more then anything I did. It was alot harder seeing someone else fall then it was seeing myself fall and that is the problem with problem gambling. I dont know what I would do if I saw that bloke again. He was one of my best friends. At first I would of punched him in the face but I kind of forgive him/feel bad for him now. Think he is living in Singapore now and starting over again

The person themself dont care as much about the problem as others will. It is a problem which really breeds of loneliness. Its a thing that attracts those of a certain nature then attacks what attracted them. I find it disgraceful the way most gambling organisations handle it. CROWN is the worst by a mile. They will invite problem gamblers/those on the banned list at Burswood to Crown Casino Melbourne on casino junkets. Tom Waterhouse and co regularly encourage and demand impulse betting from people they know are compulsive gamblers. I wonder how my friend can rock up with 500k to the casino without Burswood asking any questions about it. Fact is these companies love problem gamblers hence why its such a big issue

As much as these companies speak responsibility they dont care or give a crap about it. Only company I have heard of ever doing proper gambling responsnbility management is PokerStars who will call people they believe have spiked there gambling and ask why/offer counselling out of the blue. The Australian companies are terrible at it and I really respect any politician that demands changes in the area. It needs changing

 

[Hoffy95]

I go pretty well on the punt. Miles in front this year, but at the same time I have my moments where I will go to the pub with the boys and plan to bet a little on just about every race, because I thoroughly enjoy the experience, even if I don't win. In fact when betting like that you are almost allowing for a loss.

As for the OP, it's all relative. There's people that gamble away infinitely more than the OP but would not be considered problem gamblers because $10K to them might be pocket money. Someone else might only lose $100 a week like your friend but that person could potentially be married with kids, mortgage etc and that $100 is essential for cost of living expenses. In that case that could be considered problem gambling, yet someone else pulling in only $100 a week living at home could gamble that away and it not be an issue given there's no significant consequences that affect that person or their peers/family. When you look at the 2 side by side you probably could say both individuals have exactly the same problem or lackof but clearly the one with the added responsibilities has the problem because the consequences of his decision to gamble or not can be far reaching and his inability to restrain himself from pursuing such activity instead of focusing that money on other priorities to me, suggests that person has a problem.

There's just so much that needs to be considered when assessing theses situations.

I used to put a bit through the pokies when I was younger, but I could afford to lose it still living at home. Now I earn more, bet lesser amounts, but at the same time I have greater responsibilities now so my higher income, combined with less gambling could actually see me considered as more of a 'problem' gambler relative to what I was when I was younger. Crazy hey?

EDIT: Really it comes down to betting what you can afford to lose. Outside of that it may be a problem.

 

[Coledinho]

It comes down to how it mentally affects you too. Do you feel angry/down/sad when you lose? Do you think about it too much to the expense/detriment of others?

Its more then just financial gain/loss